> “An actor’s job is not to be a firearms or weapons expert. Performers train to perform, and they are not required or expected to be experts on guns or experienced in their use. The industry assigns that responsibility to qualified professionals who oversee their use and handling in every aspect.”
Maybe not the hottest take, but if you are handling and firing guns, ESPECIALLY around/at other people, it is your responsibility to know what you’re doing. Check that shit, every single time.
The director is responsible for safety on a set, ultimately. That’s how I always understood it.
No matter how you feel about the guy one thing is clear – he is not legally responsible for what happened. There was a person who was supposed to be the expert, the one in charge – the safety expert whose sole job was to make sure that nobody got hurt. That person fucked up.
Baldwin is going to carry this for the rest of his life no matter the outcome. This was not an act of malice or disregard. He had the reasonable expectation of believing the gun was not loaded with live ammo, and now someone is dead because he happened to be holding the gun when it went off. Different circumstances but my father accidentally killed someone later in life. 100% the other guy’s fault my dad just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. He carried that for the last decade of his life and while he didn’t talk about it much it definitely changed him.
Nobody asked him to be a firearms expert, they just asked him to go to the meeting he blew off to learn what he *is* responsible for. That’s reckless to me. It would be one thing if he had done his due diligence and this had still somehow happened because of shitty set conditions (that he’s also partially responsible for but that’s another story), but he was too busy on the phone to go to the weapons safety meeting and so missed the information about what he personally is responsible for as an actor.
Such a bullshit charge by a prosecutor looking to make a name for themselves.
Ignorance is no defense in any crime. This is no different. Dude killed a person. Full stop.
While agree hes getting a little too much heat for this, you also don’t have to be an “expert” to check if a gun is loaded or not
Alec Baldwin just wasn’t an actor on this film. Alec Baldwin was also a producer on this film. Prior to the DP getting shot to death by Alec Baldwin, the crew walked off set on two prior occasions due to safety concerns. Contrary to many on Reddit, the primary responsibility of a producer is to keep their cast and crew safe.
To explain: a good producer is sort of like a good CEO, meaning they are a good manager of people, their expectations and keeping the project on track. A huge component to keeping a project on track is safety. Period. Full stop.
But Alec is an Expert on so many things- Politics- Government, Policing- The Enviornment – But he is not in Guns- As a gun owner- I would never trust anyone handing me a gun I want it checked – It is NOT prop when it can fire live rounds.
yeah but a Producers job is to make sure that all safety guidelines are adhered to for the safety of everyone on the shoot. No Shortcuts and no costcutting.
He was the Executive Producer
Saying he shot the gun is like me saying I broke the microwave even though the last person did something stupid with it and I was just reheating a slice of lasagna
It’s everyones responsibility to have proper trigger control though, and basic knowledge to check the chamber before use.
It’s almost like there’s someone whose entire job that is or something.
Keanu might disagree
It’s not an actors job to be a firearms expert it is however just basic competency to constantly check if the gun is loaded. The no 1 rule of firearms safety is all guns are considered loaded even if you only set it down for 5 seconds. Added to that him being a producer of this film it was on him to ensure safety. Charge everyone involved as the death that resulted was needless and so easily preventable.
I get where they’re coming from and kinda agree but…..
If you get handed a gun, treat it like it’s loaded
Anytime someone hands you a gun you need to verify what’s inside.
That’s why it’s involuntary manslaughter and not something more serious.
Defense attorney here. If you are ever accused of a crime, no matter how innocent you think you are, or might actually be, don’t go on national television and say something stupid that can be refuted by forensic experts. Don’t talk to anyone except your lawyer.
That is true, but he was also a producer because actors want more money and power so with that power comes some responsibility beyond that of just an actor.
Pointing guns at people and the gun goes off… not the safest practice
I wonder what the executive producers have to say about it. Oh wait.
I have been entertained by Alec Baldwin for decades. On film I think he’s great. But this is kind of one of those things where the skipper pays the price because he’s ultimately responsible. And it sucks, but since Alec Baldwin was an EP and actually the one who pulled the trigger, it lands on him. Even if it was not intentional. It’s a shitty thing but so is getting shot dead for no reason.
I stand behind alec baldwin because it safer then standing in front of him.
I feel conflicted about this. On the one hand, the armorer is responsible 100%. At the same time, an actor who wields any weapon needs to understand and respect that they are holding a dangerous potential weapon, and they need to shoulder some responsibility, yes. Entertainment insurance exists for many reasons. I work in insurance and my company covers such policies, and we also cover celebrities/ authors/ influencers.
If you are going to make movies, regardless of a person’s individual feelings on gun use as a private citizen, if it’s part of the tools of that person’s trade- weapons that can discharge and potentially hurt or kill others on set- then they need to learn how to respect and use best practices when using the tools of their trade. Their unions need to make sure they have this education administered.
I don’t understand how he is accountable at all. This is clearly the armorers issue
SAG ACTRA should read their own safety documents and bulletins about gun handling, training, and rehearsals.
But an advocate against firearms (which he is) should be a firearms expert.
I mean they’re right, however a producers job is to ensure the safety of people on set which he failed to do, even with several people walking off the set because of the lack of safety standards and several complaints from people about the armourer and her use of live rounds with the same guns they were using to film, and guess which producer was on set everyday for this situation.
As a firearm’s instructor who trains law enforcement & certifies judges for concealed carry, ANY & ALL weapons are treated as fully loaded at all times. There’s 4 basic firearms safety rules you need to recite by memory before getting a weapon in your hands. It’s common sense to know what a firearm can do. None of my cadets depend on me to babysit them, nor should an actor depend on an armorer. Anyone holding/using a firearm is responsible for the firearm’s actions. PERIOD
I know we’re gonna get 1000 comments saying “but he was the producer!” but that’s not exactly true. Alec Baldwin was not THE executive producer. There were 6 producers in total. [An OSHA investigation found that Baldwin’s role was funding, script changes, and actor candidates.](https://www.env.nm.gov/occupational_health_safety/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2022/04/2022-04-19-NM-OSHA-Rust-Summary-of-Investigation.pdf) He was not in charge of day-to-day operations or in charge of overseeing safety protocols. That was the fault of the armorer, the assistant director, the props master, and other producers whose job was to oversee overall production. Baldwin didn’t even hire the armorer in the first place. Also the fact that all the other producers were not charged with the same responsibility for this incident should tell you that all producers are not automatically being charged.
35 comments
But it is a producers
**Union says -**
> “An actor’s job is not to be a firearms or weapons expert. Performers train to perform, and they are not required or expected to be experts on guns or experienced in their use. The industry assigns that responsibility to qualified professionals who oversee their use and handling in every aspect.”
Maybe not the hottest take, but if you are handling and firing guns, ESPECIALLY around/at other people, it is your responsibility to know what you’re doing. Check that shit, every single time.
The director is responsible for safety on a set, ultimately. That’s how I always understood it.
No matter how you feel about the guy one thing is clear – he is not legally responsible for what happened. There was a person who was supposed to be the expert, the one in charge – the safety expert whose sole job was to make sure that nobody got hurt. That person fucked up.
Baldwin is going to carry this for the rest of his life no matter the outcome. This was not an act of malice or disregard. He had the reasonable expectation of believing the gun was not loaded with live ammo, and now someone is dead because he happened to be holding the gun when it went off. Different circumstances but my father accidentally killed someone later in life. 100% the other guy’s fault my dad just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. He carried that for the last decade of his life and while he didn’t talk about it much it definitely changed him.
Nobody asked him to be a firearms expert, they just asked him to go to the meeting he blew off to learn what he *is* responsible for. That’s reckless to me. It would be one thing if he had done his due diligence and this had still somehow happened because of shitty set conditions (that he’s also partially responsible for but that’s another story), but he was too busy on the phone to go to the weapons safety meeting and so missed the information about what he personally is responsible for as an actor.
Such a bullshit charge by a prosecutor looking to make a name for themselves.
Ignorance is no defense in any crime. This is no different. Dude killed a person. Full stop.
Looks at Keanu Reeves…
George Clooney disagrees.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/16/entertainment/george-clooney-rust-shooting/index.html
While agree hes getting a little too much heat for this, you also don’t have to be an “expert” to check if a gun is loaded or not
Alec Baldwin just wasn’t an actor on this film. Alec Baldwin was also a producer on this film. Prior to the DP getting shot to death by Alec Baldwin, the crew walked off set on two prior occasions due to safety concerns. Contrary to many on Reddit, the primary responsibility of a producer is to keep their cast and crew safe.
To explain: a good producer is sort of like a good CEO, meaning they are a good manager of people, their expectations and keeping the project on track. A huge component to keeping a project on track is safety. Period. Full stop.
But Alec is an Expert on so many things- Politics- Government, Policing- The Enviornment – But he is not in Guns- As a gun owner- I would never trust anyone handing me a gun I want it checked – It is NOT prop when it can fire live rounds.
yeah but a Producers job is to make sure that all safety guidelines are adhered to for the safety of everyone on the shoot. No Shortcuts and no costcutting.
He was the Executive Producer
Saying he shot the gun is like me saying I broke the microwave even though the last person did something stupid with it and I was just reheating a slice of lasagna
It’s everyones responsibility to have proper trigger control though, and basic knowledge to check the chamber before use.
It’s almost like there’s someone whose entire job that is or something.
Keanu might disagree
It’s not an actors job to be a firearms expert it is however just basic competency to constantly check if the gun is loaded. The no 1 rule of firearms safety is all guns are considered loaded even if you only set it down for 5 seconds. Added to that him being a producer of this film it was on him to ensure safety. Charge everyone involved as the death that resulted was needless and so easily preventable.
I get where they’re coming from and kinda agree but…..
If you get handed a gun, treat it like it’s loaded
Anytime someone hands you a gun you need to verify what’s inside.
That’s why it’s involuntary manslaughter and not something more serious.
Defense attorney here. If you are ever accused of a crime, no matter how innocent you think you are, or might actually be, don’t go on national television and say something stupid that can be refuted by forensic experts. Don’t talk to anyone except your lawyer.
That is true, but he was also a producer because actors want more money and power so with that power comes some responsibility beyond that of just an actor.
Pointing guns at people and the gun goes off… not the safest practice
I wonder what the executive producers have to say about it. Oh wait.
I have been entertained by Alec Baldwin for decades. On film I think he’s great. But this is kind of one of those things where the skipper pays the price because he’s ultimately responsible. And it sucks, but since Alec Baldwin was an EP and actually the one who pulled the trigger, it lands on him. Even if it was not intentional. It’s a shitty thing but so is getting shot dead for no reason.
I stand behind alec baldwin because it safer then standing in front of him.
I feel conflicted about this. On the one hand, the armorer is responsible 100%. At the same time, an actor who wields any weapon needs to understand and respect that they are holding a dangerous potential weapon, and they need to shoulder some responsibility, yes. Entertainment insurance exists for many reasons. I work in insurance and my company covers such policies, and we also cover celebrities/ authors/ influencers.
If you are going to make movies, regardless of a person’s individual feelings on gun use as a private citizen, if it’s part of the tools of that person’s trade- weapons that can discharge and potentially hurt or kill others on set- then they need to learn how to respect and use best practices when using the tools of their trade. Their unions need to make sure they have this education administered.
I don’t understand how he is accountable at all. This is clearly the armorers issue
SAG ACTRA should read their own safety documents and bulletins about gun handling, training, and rehearsals.
But an advocate against firearms (which he is) should be a firearms expert.
I mean they’re right, however a producers job is to ensure the safety of people on set which he failed to do, even with several people walking off the set because of the lack of safety standards and several complaints from people about the armourer and her use of live rounds with the same guns they were using to film, and guess which producer was on set everyday for this situation.
As a firearm’s instructor who trains law enforcement & certifies judges for concealed carry, ANY & ALL weapons are treated as fully loaded at all times. There’s 4 basic firearms safety rules you need to recite by memory before getting a weapon in your hands. It’s common sense to know what a firearm can do. None of my cadets depend on me to babysit them, nor should an actor depend on an armorer. Anyone holding/using a firearm is responsible for the firearm’s actions. PERIOD
I know we’re gonna get 1000 comments saying “but he was the producer!” but that’s not exactly true. Alec Baldwin was not THE executive producer. There were 6 producers in total. [An OSHA investigation found that Baldwin’s role was funding, script changes, and actor candidates.](https://www.env.nm.gov/occupational_health_safety/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2022/04/2022-04-19-NM-OSHA-Rust-Summary-of-Investigation.pdf) He was not in charge of day-to-day operations or in charge of overseeing safety protocols. That was the fault of the armorer, the assistant director, the props master, and other producers whose job was to oversee overall production. Baldwin didn’t even hire the armorer in the first place. Also the fact that all the other producers were not charged with the same responsibility for this incident should tell you that all producers are not automatically being charged.
There [are 14 producers.](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11001074/fullcredits) So it’s not the gotcha everyone thinks it is.