MS-DOS and Windows 3.11 still run train dashboards at German railway — company listed admin job for 30-year-old operating system
by TensaiSaru
MS-DOS and Windows 3.11 still run train dashboards at German railway — company listed admin job for 30-year-old operating system
by TensaiSaru
26 comments
Link text:
“A German railway firm posted a vacancy for a Windows 3.11 Administrator just before the weekend. In addition to skills in wrangling Windows for Workgroups on the 30-year-old operating system, the recruiter would look upon a candidate more fondly for possessing MS-DOS experience. The admin would purportedly oversee systems with 166MHz processors and a whopping 8MB of RAM. It might seem slightly worrying that modern railways are still running on such ancient systems, but mission-critical systems often adhere to the “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” philosophy.
Silicon lover Konkretor highlighted the above vacancy on Twitter / X and explained that the hiring company was responsible for “railway display boards for almost all of Germany.” These systems obviously rely in some part on old MS-DOS and Windows 3.11 applications.
The job listing, which we saw yesterday, seems to have been taken down today. It mentions that the appointee will maintain and update the old systems that are still pivotal to railway operations. In further detail, we learn that this software is responsible for “the driver’s cab display system on high-speed and regional trains [which] shows the driver the most important technical data in real-time.”
Seeing such old legacy OSes being relied upon for delivering important real-time data is somewhat worrying, but it isn’t uncommon to find old mission-critical systems run by old software. Additionally, the display might only provide data for information, not critical safety systems.
Windows 3.1X was notable for being the first version of Microsoft’s GUI-based operating system with integrated networking and introduced a 386-protected mode networking stack. Microsoft launched this network-friendly OS back in 1992 and ended support for it on December 31, 2001. Did the German rail company miss the memo?
According to some chit-chat on the Hacker News forum, the above-mentioned legacy system is currently in use on Germany’s ICE 1 and ICE 2 trains. If true, the software that’s reliant on MS-DOS and Win 3.11 might be required until 2030 or later. Another interesting titbit was the assertion that one of the railway systems running Win 3.11 has a BIOS dating from 1996 and features a 166MHz processor plus 8MB of RAM.
Ancient hardware and software keep turning up in the most unexpected places. Only yesterday, we reported on Japan’s mandarins finally being weaned off their addiction to floppy disks. Meanwhile, enthusiasts still purchase computers based around Intel’s ancient 8088 CPU and dabble in overclocking ISA bus graphics cards.”
By Mark Tyson, on tomshardware
All retro gaming nerds, assemble!
That’s a major IT security risk.
IPX/SPX or TCP/IP protocol?
That’s one way to hacker-proof your infrastructure…. /s
Made once CD that contained 3.11 install floppies. Booted with DOS + CD drivers the install took two or three minues 😀
Should have saved those for later use.
if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it
Well, I mean, a law on computers is “if it works, don’t touch it”, they are EXTREMELY law abiders
The backbone of many financial institutions AND governments consists of 40 year old COBOL programs… so this is pretty modern in comparison.
If it aint broke, dont fix it.
Probably A LOT more convenient and secure than trying to port everything over to – god forbid – Windows 11
>According to some chit-chat on the Hacker News forum, the above-mentioned legacy system is currently in use on Germany’s ICE 1 and ICE 2 trains. If true, the software that’s reliant on MS-DOS and Win 3.11 **might be required until 2030 or later**.
That being said, as funny as all of this is, I’d say the system is indeed fine to use so long as it’s not connected to the Internet, directly or second-handedly.
first rule of engineering… if it works, don’t touch it…
Typical german stubbornness not to change and sticking with the outdated ways.
Windows 3.11 is still useful even in todays environment. Here is how it looks on another obscure machine:
[https://youtu.be/sHGenhrvK-w](https://youtu.be/sHGenhrvK-w)
​
Also,. you can run Excel 5.0 on in, which can be used in todays environment for managing small to middle businesses.
How did they survive y2k /s
Don’t ask where hard wired systems out of the 70s and 80s is still used.
Hint, it produces power by splitting atoms.
What’s the shocker. Germans are last to update computer tech
The US Nuclear arsenal still runs on 8 Inch floppy disks 😀 funny enough this more secure then all the new stuff now
McLaren also needs old computing systems to maintain the McLaren F1. So this about the trains doesn’t surprise me. What is strange is that Siemens hasn’t taken the initiative to modernize those systems and for example demand the trains to be serviced at their depots or else they break down…
LOL!
I knew that Germany FLOSS (Free / Libre Open Source Software) and love the American closed source one like it loves the Ruissian oil / gas, but come one, this is just crazy!
Hopefully those dashboards are not safety critical and just don’t get into a BSOD when you need them the most to work!
But it could be worse, with a Windows 10 or 11 starting installing thier forced upgrades and crashing or restarting when they want to…
Do they require 30 years of experience operating Windows 3.1?
I work for the railway industry.. most trains until the early 2000s run ancient HW/SW.
The cost to upgrade everything is too high, and most certifications don’t apply to old rolling stock. You wouldn’t be able to use it on a new train but old trains can run those systems.
In the 90s most trains would still run on relays… so nobody thought about software obsolescence.
To all the “Never change a running system” folks…
If you know the German railways, you would know the system isn’t running at all, and the proof is that they are looking for someone to fix it. It is the worst railway company in Europe. I know someone working there. She said it’s like going to a museum. She wouldn’t care if the customers wouldn’t insult here on a daily basis for failings of the company. One thing you are always granted is that they are always too late and service has no clue why.
I had 3 jobs in the last 10 years where I had to use AS400 every day, so this doesn’t surprise me.
But they will upgrade executives salary in instant!
Nuclear weapons are controlled by 1970’s computers. Good luck to anyone trying to interface with that, its not like theirs a usb port.
AS400’s are used in nearly every hospital. Those mainframes need very little intervention.
I am starting to wish I just learned Cobol, became an old school system admin/ Dev for windows and old IBM mainframes.