It would have been good to see the response broken down by income ranges but interesting none the less, 33 percent that would consider it is huge though and the majority of people saying that higher taxes is not value for money is surprising but again kinda need to know income ranges as I presume that would sway the response, high income high tax vs low income low tax
If you earn more than £28k and less than £43k the extra tax is negligible. You would be mad to move for that reason alone if you are in that tax bracket.
Tell me what percentage of people are actually moving for that 1 reason and that reason alone. The answer of course is none.
England is a cold house for working people. Taxed then taxes then taxed then taxed then taxed
They are too busy lucratively visiting England and buying dirt-cheap booze for resell and glass bottles to reclaim deposits on in Scotland to bother…..oh wait….:)
As someone who relocated from elsewhere with a high-tax-bracket income: It does not make a difference. People don’t generally come to Scotland for the high wages and standard of living; you can have much more than that in London. And I have never heard anybody speak about tax rates when deciding to move to another country.
On the other hand some things that do attract workers are public health services, good schools, modern infrastructure… which are all positively affected by people paying taxes.
And snowmen vote for snow
Majority of Scots are net takers and do not pay high tax (have to earn over 43k to be a net contributor to the system)
Of course tax hikes won’t make low earners move. It will impact high earners such as business owners, lawyers, surgeons etc.
40% of Scots pay no income tax – so this data is very misleading, it needs to be broken down by earnings.
Of all the points you could have led with, you chose that?
Unless you’re earning well over 100k then just the extra cost of housing down south would wipe out any tax savings they may see, they wouldn’t save anything by moving to England.
If you’re earning enough that the tax savings would cover the extra housing costs, then you probably don’t care too much about that difference, finances wouldn’t be your major decider on where to live.
Source: pure speculation, I’m poor as shit.
Very little is actually said of the benefits that the taxation in Scotland actually provies for the populace, free prescriptions, free university tuition fees, free bus passes for under 22s. Then there is lower council tax levels compared with England, lower house prices than the South East of England.
True. But 33% is a big chunk of tax receipts…
Of that 33%, next to 0% of them are going to do fucking anything.
All the howls of ” I’m loaded and I’m angry at paying more tax so im off south ” has withered down to ” I’m pissed I’m paying more tax but I’ve realised that paying less council tax, prescriptions, care fees, uni debt for my bairns, lower house prices etc. and the fact the wife has told me I’ll be leaving on my lonesome has, well, simmered down my wankishness.”
Still, they say it’s good to get things off yer chest before reality settles the nerves.
The majority of Scots aren’t affected by the tax change so that makes sense
Worryingly only 50% of people in Scotland pay above basic rate income tax and 16% pay the higher rate, 33% of respondents said they would consider moving, depending on the overlap that could mean basically all people paying above basic rate would consider moving (it won’t be a perfect overlap)
A poll from an England based Unionist Newspaper carries no weight in Scotland.
If you consider the cost of moving alone, let alone the higher house prices in most of the UK, it’d take decades to just recoup your cost on any kind of income where income tax brackets are a factor. For the vast majority of people, the tax difference is absolutely negligible.
uh oh ‘The Times”
Seems nuts anyone would uproot their entire life just to pay less tax, unless the savings were pretty significant.
You’d probably have to find another job (or your partner might, or both), buy another house, move everything, change your kids schools, leave all your friends and family behind.
A third of all questioned considering leaving Scotland is honestly a pretty fucking scary statistic.
Hell of a lot of difference between “would consider” and “have considered and definitely would”.
The maths doesn’t add up. It costs easily over 10k to move.
move to ‘another part of the UK’ lol
THIS. IS. SCOTLAND.
Move due to higher taxes. Fair enough.
On an 50k income you would be £123 a month better off.
That’s until you take into account the £117,000 difference in average house price.
Is a £124 a month going to cover possibly doubling your mortgage?
i’d rather move to scotland. i loathe paying £10 for every prescription, and that’s £10 per item. i also love your prescription dispensing machines, it would save me so much time. and i wish i didn’t have to pay for uni. i have £80k in debt that i know i will never, ever pay off, for a degree that hasn’t paid off in the slightest.
i say i’d rather move, but i am actually planning to move there anyway lol
edit: idk what i’m being downvoted for. i’m not coming to colonise you guys, just moving in with my scottish boyfriend
Why is this presented as if it’s a “gotcha” for tax raises, one third is an absolutely massive amount of tax payers, especially considering that those are likely responsible for more than a third if income tax revenue.
Look into the Laffer curve. You cannot just indefinitely raise taxes
Doesn’t have to be a majority… just has to be enough of your higher skilled and higher earning professionals and you’re in big trouble.
And the other issue is that it’s not a risk of brain drain, it’s a risk of brain repellent. It’s a far greater problem getting immigrants with skills into Scotland than them just going London for more pay and lower rates.
Its incredibly fustrating to see this narrative being accepted, I moved from Brighton to Scotland, before that I have moved around several countries and the factors involved in making those decisions were how well was the healthcare performing, what public transport is available as well as the usual factors (house prices, family location etc).
There are a lot of them, but specifics around income tax, particularly the minute differences we are talking about here, do not factor into the equation.
I moved to Scotland because it was the type of government to push for progressive taxation and use any money raised to raise my quality of life, but I dont think the Times will be putting me on the frontpage, nor the people on the lower end of the tax scale who are paying less tax.
Worth noting that that 33% will likely be responsible for way more than 33% of tax receipts.
You figured this out from an online Times poll?
Most folk don’t leave their local area, ever.
I earn about £72k so pay noticeably more.
But in return I get free prescriptions, my son will pay a lot less to go to uni and I get to live in Scotland.
No brainer really
They must be extraordinarily worried to try and spin this as a positive- 1/3 of Scots would consider moving!
Are 1/3rd even effected!?
A completely toxic policy.
Fucking 33% would!?! Holy shit… we already have the lowest quality of life in the country… man it’s shite being Scottish.
I pay more tax in Scotland than I would elsewhere, but I am quite happy for some of the things my taxes pay for (free university and prescriptions) for example. Without them, people from disadvantaged backgrounds would have a much more difficult time acquiring higher education or needed healthcare.
A third of Scots (most of whom are probably only paying a few hundred quid more) would consider it, that is the bigger headline.
Having a divergence of tax rates in the same country is madness.
Scotlands additional tax rates generate an additional £1.5Bn, which is welcome in the environment where funding is becoming scarcer and cuts are incoming. But I do agree that there comes a point where it becomes too much.
The tax changes that are incoming with the current budget are not going to raise a great amount of revenue, but it may end up reducing the tax base. I think it would have been sensible not to go ahead with the tax rises and also have scrapped the council tax freeze. It would also be a good idea to increase the higher rate threshold, which has been frozen for a number of years, but that would require more significant cuts.
Well of course not, at least not for the majority. If I’m paying a bit more tax here, am I really going to move to a place where house prices are substantially higher, with all the moving costs and lawyers fees etc, for the sake of a few grand a year? I wouldn’t realistically see those savings. Especially if I have kids who will now have to pay tuition fees in the future due to our move.
It’s probably different for very high earners. But for the upper-middle earners, it’s not worth moving.
See, the thing is. Increased tax isn’t a bad thing if we could vote in a government we could trust to spend it properly.
Really this becomes important for high rate tax payers. They get the biggest shaft so likely to be most keen to move and have the ability to quickly move if required.
I’ve been in that situation. Getting a similar job elsewhere in the UK would have been a significant wage decrease. Would have been pointless moving.
I moved from England to Scotland a few years ago. The extra tax I pay, plus other extras like water/sewage on my council tax, is all in all about half what my water bill was for a 2-bed rental when I was living in England. Moving back to Scotland has come with a reasonable pay rise, less stressful job, and mostly saved me money in essential outgoings during that first year (notwithstanding the recent/ongoing inflation, but that’s an issue everywhere). Not to mention that my parents are here and starting to get on in life. I’d rather not give up the benefits of living in Scotland, and time with close family, for a relatively minor tax benefit.
It’s almost as if Wales and Northern Ireland don’t exist…. odd phrasing for this sub.
Companies are less likely to open an office in Scotland since they need to offer higher salaries to entice people to move there to offset the higher tax.
It’s not exactly joined up thinking from the ‘we could be just like Ireland!’ set.
Not surprised considering they only looked at a single factor. Moving down south to save a few pounds on tax but having to shell out more for a house etc is not the best idea.
43 comments
It would have been good to see the response broken down by income ranges but interesting none the less, 33 percent that would consider it is huge though and the majority of people saying that higher taxes is not value for money is surprising but again kinda need to know income ranges as I presume that would sway the response, high income high tax vs low income low tax
If you earn more than £28k and less than £43k the extra tax is negligible. You would be mad to move for that reason alone if you are in that tax bracket.
Tell me what percentage of people are actually moving for that 1 reason and that reason alone. The answer of course is none.
England is a cold house for working people. Taxed then taxes then taxed then taxed then taxed
They are too busy lucratively visiting England and buying dirt-cheap booze for resell and glass bottles to reclaim deposits on in Scotland to bother…..oh wait….:)
As someone who relocated from elsewhere with a high-tax-bracket income: It does not make a difference. People don’t generally come to Scotland for the high wages and standard of living; you can have much more than that in London. And I have never heard anybody speak about tax rates when deciding to move to another country.
On the other hand some things that do attract workers are public health services, good schools, modern infrastructure… which are all positively affected by people paying taxes.
And snowmen vote for snow
Majority of Scots are net takers and do not pay high tax (have to earn over 43k to be a net contributor to the system)
Of course tax hikes won’t make low earners move. It will impact high earners such as business owners, lawyers, surgeons etc.
40% of Scots pay no income tax – so this data is very misleading, it needs to be broken down by earnings.
Of all the points you could have led with, you chose that?
Unless you’re earning well over 100k then just the extra cost of housing down south would wipe out any tax savings they may see, they wouldn’t save anything by moving to England.
If you’re earning enough that the tax savings would cover the extra housing costs, then you probably don’t care too much about that difference, finances wouldn’t be your major decider on where to live.
Source: pure speculation, I’m poor as shit.
Very little is actually said of the benefits that the taxation in Scotland actually provies for the populace, free prescriptions, free university tuition fees, free bus passes for under 22s. Then there is lower council tax levels compared with England, lower house prices than the South East of England.
True. But 33% is a big chunk of tax receipts…
Of that 33%, next to 0% of them are going to do fucking anything.
All the howls of ” I’m loaded and I’m angry at paying more tax so im off south ” has withered down to ” I’m pissed I’m paying more tax but I’ve realised that paying less council tax, prescriptions, care fees, uni debt for my bairns, lower house prices etc. and the fact the wife has told me I’ll be leaving on my lonesome has, well, simmered down my wankishness.”
Still, they say it’s good to get things off yer chest before reality settles the nerves.
The majority of Scots aren’t affected by the tax change so that makes sense
Worryingly only 50% of people in Scotland pay above basic rate income tax and 16% pay the higher rate, 33% of respondents said they would consider moving, depending on the overlap that could mean basically all people paying above basic rate would consider moving (it won’t be a perfect overlap)
A poll from an England based Unionist Newspaper carries no weight in Scotland.
If you consider the cost of moving alone, let alone the higher house prices in most of the UK, it’d take decades to just recoup your cost on any kind of income where income tax brackets are a factor. For the vast majority of people, the tax difference is absolutely negligible.
uh oh ‘The Times”
Seems nuts anyone would uproot their entire life just to pay less tax, unless the savings were pretty significant.
You’d probably have to find another job (or your partner might, or both), buy another house, move everything, change your kids schools, leave all your friends and family behind.
A third of all questioned considering leaving Scotland is honestly a pretty fucking scary statistic.
Hell of a lot of difference between “would consider” and “have considered and definitely would”.
The maths doesn’t add up. It costs easily over 10k to move.
move to ‘another part of the UK’ lol
THIS. IS. SCOTLAND.
Move due to higher taxes. Fair enough.
On an 50k income you would be £123 a month better off.
That’s until you take into account the £117,000 difference in average house price.
Is a £124 a month going to cover possibly doubling your mortgage?
i’d rather move to scotland. i loathe paying £10 for every prescription, and that’s £10 per item. i also love your prescription dispensing machines, it would save me so much time. and i wish i didn’t have to pay for uni. i have £80k in debt that i know i will never, ever pay off, for a degree that hasn’t paid off in the slightest.
i say i’d rather move, but i am actually planning to move there anyway lol
edit: idk what i’m being downvoted for. i’m not coming to colonise you guys, just moving in with my scottish boyfriend
Why is this presented as if it’s a “gotcha” for tax raises, one third is an absolutely massive amount of tax payers, especially considering that those are likely responsible for more than a third if income tax revenue.
Look into the Laffer curve. You cannot just indefinitely raise taxes
Doesn’t have to be a majority… just has to be enough of your higher skilled and higher earning professionals and you’re in big trouble.
And the other issue is that it’s not a risk of brain drain, it’s a risk of brain repellent. It’s a far greater problem getting immigrants with skills into Scotland than them just going London for more pay and lower rates.
Its incredibly fustrating to see this narrative being accepted, I moved from Brighton to Scotland, before that I have moved around several countries and the factors involved in making those decisions were how well was the healthcare performing, what public transport is available as well as the usual factors (house prices, family location etc).
There are a lot of them, but specifics around income tax, particularly the minute differences we are talking about here, do not factor into the equation.
I moved to Scotland because it was the type of government to push for progressive taxation and use any money raised to raise my quality of life, but I dont think the Times will be putting me on the frontpage, nor the people on the lower end of the tax scale who are paying less tax.
Worth noting that that 33% will likely be responsible for way more than 33% of tax receipts.
You figured this out from an online Times poll?
Most folk don’t leave their local area, ever.
I earn about £72k so pay noticeably more.
But in return I get free prescriptions, my son will pay a lot less to go to uni and I get to live in Scotland.
No brainer really
They must be extraordinarily worried to try and spin this as a positive- 1/3 of Scots would consider moving!
Are 1/3rd even effected!?
A completely toxic policy.
Fucking 33% would!?! Holy shit… we already have the lowest quality of life in the country… man it’s shite being Scottish.
I pay more tax in Scotland than I would elsewhere, but I am quite happy for some of the things my taxes pay for (free university and prescriptions) for example. Without them, people from disadvantaged backgrounds would have a much more difficult time acquiring higher education or needed healthcare.
A third of Scots (most of whom are probably only paying a few hundred quid more) would consider it, that is the bigger headline.
Having a divergence of tax rates in the same country is madness.
Scotlands additional tax rates generate an additional £1.5Bn, which is welcome in the environment where funding is becoming scarcer and cuts are incoming. But I do agree that there comes a point where it becomes too much.
The tax changes that are incoming with the current budget are not going to raise a great amount of revenue, but it may end up reducing the tax base. I think it would have been sensible not to go ahead with the tax rises and also have scrapped the council tax freeze. It would also be a good idea to increase the higher rate threshold, which has been frozen for a number of years, but that would require more significant cuts.
Well of course not, at least not for the majority. If I’m paying a bit more tax here, am I really going to move to a place where house prices are substantially higher, with all the moving costs and lawyers fees etc, for the sake of a few grand a year? I wouldn’t realistically see those savings. Especially if I have kids who will now have to pay tuition fees in the future due to our move.
It’s probably different for very high earners. But for the upper-middle earners, it’s not worth moving.
See, the thing is. Increased tax isn’t a bad thing if we could vote in a government we could trust to spend it properly.
Really this becomes important for high rate tax payers. They get the biggest shaft so likely to be most keen to move and have the ability to quickly move if required.
I’ve been in that situation. Getting a similar job elsewhere in the UK would have been a significant wage decrease. Would have been pointless moving.
I moved from England to Scotland a few years ago. The extra tax I pay, plus other extras like water/sewage on my council tax, is all in all about half what my water bill was for a 2-bed rental when I was living in England. Moving back to Scotland has come with a reasonable pay rise, less stressful job, and mostly saved me money in essential outgoings during that first year (notwithstanding the recent/ongoing inflation, but that’s an issue everywhere). Not to mention that my parents are here and starting to get on in life. I’d rather not give up the benefits of living in Scotland, and time with close family, for a relatively minor tax benefit.
It’s almost as if Wales and Northern Ireland don’t exist…. odd phrasing for this sub.
Companies are less likely to open an office in Scotland since they need to offer higher salaries to entice people to move there to offset the higher tax.
It’s not exactly joined up thinking from the ‘we could be just like Ireland!’ set.
Not surprised considering they only looked at a single factor. Moving down south to save a few pounds on tax but having to shell out more for a house etc is not the best idea.