EDIT: huur prijzen, salaris, arbeidspotentie en soort gelijke aspecten moeten bekeken worden. De tijd dat iemand ergens woont is letterlijk het minst nuttige criteria.
…ach, zolang Sihame d’r loon nog krijgt is er geen vuiltje aan de lucht 😉
Or the government could just start investing more in social housing. Or is that too straightforward (read: socialistic) for him?
[removed]
Immoweb shows 12k houses available to rent. How is this going to work.
Lets cut the crap
The problem is supply vs demand and we simply don’t have the place to build extra houses. What we can build extra are apartments, but the current demographic is asking for family homes.
So either politics shows some balls and puts a stop on population increase (too late and too slow) or they forget about environment and starts building houses on a massive scale, but good luck doing that with Groen in the government.
9 jaar is veel te lang
What a disgusting idea. So the idea is to help people (after letting them wait for years of course) by setting them up with affordable housing. But when they manage to build a stable living with an okay wage (usually not very high, since they had to apply for social housing) and a social support system with neighbours, you kick them out. Their housing costs will double, causing a financial crisis, and they’ll have to move away from their social circles, causing a social crisis.
This will just set up social housing as a revolving door. Financial problems => social housing => financial problems fixed => no social housing => financial problems => wait list for social housing.
This is a huge Ivory Tower mentality of Somers. I guess he assumes that working people all make an easy 5k a month, so getting another place to live if you work should be easy!
I assume the next step in his plan is “well people that never work should not deserve social housing anyway!”. So no social housing for people that work and no social housing for people that don’t work. And voila, social housing crisis solved!!! Another bonus is that if you move around people with foreign roots often enough, you’ll make it almost impossible for them to integrate, so he can claim that immigrants don’t want to integrate!
Sure, there are probably some cases of people living in those places that make more than enough to live somewhere else. But those will be exceptions. People able to live in a luxurious home, aren’t going to keep living in social housing…. But anyone who’s not an asshole/idiot solves this by putting a wage cap on social housing.
I’ve been saying it for years, but we need to find ways to cut severely on space. Full homes from OCMW are often taken up by people passing through, refugees(not in any way indicating they’re the only problem).
What they need to do is: build a large appartment like building in every city. Every room has a bed, and a sink(een lavabo), just pure basics, and it’s quite small so it’s mostly meant for just sleeping and small washing up. There are private shower stalls at the end of the hallways(males on one end, women on the other). Separate floors for couples, single males, single females, And for safety cameras constantly monitoring the hallways(no single males in the female floors and vice versa). Once in a while a drug sniffing dog goes through the hallway. Zero drugs policy.
On the ground floor there are communal rooms. A small gym, recreational stuff like a table tennis table, a reading room, tv, a place for preparing and eating food. (Still needs some work)
Who would this be for? Homeless people, refugees, people on a waiting list. It’s a pass through place, not meant that everyone stays there forever, some may stay some weeks, others max. a couple of months.
Just to avoid people to end up on the streets, and help them become social if needed, teach them skills, help them save some money. There are very strict (logical) rules like no drugs, no violence, different populaces either have to get along, or avoid each other(no fights because of race or religion or gender). There are always people present to help, and communal rooms and hallways have cameras, and there are safety buttons everywhere with an intercom system. One can press a normal button to get in touch with reception for information, or hit the emergency button when a man enters a single womans bedroom.
Is this idea perfect, not really, but it would open up so much space on the housing market. I know a guy who occupied a luxury apmartment once for a short term from OCMW. It was a pass through, because otherwise he was homeless. But every time someone came or left the place was empty for a long time cause they needed to clean etc… and it bothered me because the guy was undeserving(I knew plenty about him), nor did he respect the houserules about not smoking indoors.
Een max termijn is niet zo zeer nodig. Wel een herevaluatie om de zoveel tijd met de mogelijkheid om de mensen met hoger inkomen naar de privémarkt te sturen.
Ik ken persoonlijk meerdere gezinnen die 3000 euro en meer hebben en toch in hun sociale woning kunnen blijven.
Of iemand die een villa van ouders erfde dat stond te verkommeren omdat hij er niet in ging wonen door de lage huurprijs van zijn sociale woning.
Nog iemand anders die dan weer NIET WILT gaan werken omdat ze anders als gezin met 2 kinderen die intussen zelf al werken hun sociale woning dreigen te verliezen omdat hun inkomen dan te hoog zou zijn.
Je kan niet voor iedereen een algemene regel toepassen aangezien de ene situatie niet te vergelijken is met de andere, maar in sommige gevallen is het eerder een hangmat in plaats van een vangnet geworden terwijl anderen op jarenlange wachtlijsten komen te staan met maar de helft van het inkomen of zelfs nog minder.
Mongool
So what problem are they trying to solve?
If it is solving the amount of people looking for social housing this will work, by making people not eligable for social housing. It does not solve the problem of people looking for affordable housing though.
It is like that time they claimed that unemployement dropped because they stoped counting people unemployed for more then a certain amount of time.
Looks nice on the statistics, but is just a lie about what the real problem is.
Lets say they give those people support in renting on the private market, that would just mean that renting prices can increase even more as supply stays limited but the amount that can be spend increases. So this would just make people who rent out houses get more money. (if they lend in the bracket these people would be renting in)
Also, if you are ‘arbeidsongeschikt’ why would you after 9 years suddenly find a job? If you are 58, not highly educated and have one arm, who is going to hire you? Or what if you have a mental disability that makes functioning really difficult?
I dont see how this measure is going to solve anything except move people from his list to a different list. Basicly, just toss the problem to somebody else.
Limiting politicians to 9 years of service or less would be better.
humanfriendly plan from a welfed VLD’er
brb, buying slum property.
Allez, misschien moeten we gewoon tweede verblijven verbannen, of is dat niet zo populair bij de hoge pieten :p
Some things that would actually help the housing crisis:
– Make rules around building new housing more flexible. Maybe introduce basic housing rules and allow an upgrade path (with forethought planning)
– Give people that buy/build housing with the intention to live in them (more) subsidies/tax breaks (anything that lowers the cost).
– Make calculation on what a single Belgian worker can afford with a median income and tailor housing costs to that. Not this working couple middle class bullshit. We not only have a housing crisis, but also a social crisis with loneliness.
– Reduce taxation on companies that strive to pay their people good. This might help increase wages in regions outside Brussels economic zone.
Some drastic things that we can do, but will never happen:
– Create a federal/national company that builds quality housing at affordable pricing. This will put serious pressure on the private industry.
– Put a stop to downscaling, if you compare plot sizes to 25 years ago they have shrunk 3 times almost. If this trends continues we will be living in shoeboxes in 50 years.
– Seize buildings/land that is standing empty and use tax payer money to make it more interesting to make use of this land.
– Allow houses to be domilicilated if they are cut of public utility (most notability electricity).
Wouldn’t the easier solution be to raise fucking wages?
Oh I see, the “let’s make the problem of not having enough social housing not our problem anymore” strategy.
I am not saying that this is a good idea but something has to be done as people who are in real need have to wait too much time to get a house or an appartement because it’s only free when the people who live in it die in most of the cases.
I myself lived in a social housing due to poor situation of my parents. It was a block of 4 houses. I think we waited around 8 years to get one and had to switch several places before getting one.
Family in 1st house: a couple with 3 girls. Girls have finished their studies and left and both parents moved away to smaller house.
Family in 2nd house: Us. Me and parents. Moved in in 2011, graduated in 2014, bought a house in 2017 and moved my parents to live with me. The house is free since but has not been allocated since then. Moreover, there were around 5 houses on the street which were free for at least 2 years without being given to people. Noone knew why.
Family in 3rd house: an old woman and a guy around my age. The guy didn’t have any active social life/work so I wonder what will happen to him once the woman is gone.
Family in 4th house: old couple who did not have any children.
I think overall it’s well managed but I remember finding the environment quite depressing. People generally not working, if they do, they know that the price of their rent will rise, therefore, it makes no sens to them. As consequence, they have no motivation in life and they start fading away. It’s a vicious circle that must be stopped somewhere.
I didn’t like that place and my objective was to run from it asap and take my parents with me. Glad that I was lucky to finish my studies and get a decent job which allowed me to do that. But in our case, the waiting time was > than the time we lived in it, which is probably an exception as many residents lived there when we arrived and were still there when we left.
Lol, is he trying to one-up Diependaele or what?
Huisjesmelkers and boomer real estate hoarders rejoice!
wie bepaalt er wie er arbeidsgeschikt is en hoe? denk dat dat het belangrijkste hier is…
Hasn’t this been rejected?
Increase wages first.
Unless this plan includes something to fix the dumpster fire that the low end private housing market has become, this is nothing more than a recipe for disaster. An uninsulated storage closet is not a suitable home for a minimum wage earner when gas is so expensive it’s more cost effective to burn €5 bills.
27 comments
Ah daarom stemmen huisjesmelkers VLD
Waar moeten die mensen daarna gaan wonen dan?
EDIT: huur prijzen, salaris, arbeidspotentie en soort gelijke aspecten moeten bekeken worden. De tijd dat iemand ergens woont is letterlijk het minst nuttige criteria.
…ach, zolang Sihame d’r loon nog krijgt is er geen vuiltje aan de lucht 😉
Or the government could just start investing more in social housing. Or is that too straightforward (read: socialistic) for him?
[removed]
Immoweb shows 12k houses available to rent. How is this going to work.
Lets cut the crap
The problem is supply vs demand and we simply don’t have the place to build extra houses. What we can build extra are apartments, but the current demographic is asking for family homes.
So either politics shows some balls and puts a stop on population increase (too late and too slow) or they forget about environment and starts building houses on a massive scale, but good luck doing that with Groen in the government.
9 jaar is veel te lang
What a disgusting idea. So the idea is to help people (after letting them wait for years of course) by setting them up with affordable housing. But when they manage to build a stable living with an okay wage (usually not very high, since they had to apply for social housing) and a social support system with neighbours, you kick them out. Their housing costs will double, causing a financial crisis, and they’ll have to move away from their social circles, causing a social crisis.
This will just set up social housing as a revolving door. Financial problems => social housing => financial problems fixed => no social housing => financial problems => wait list for social housing.
This is a huge Ivory Tower mentality of Somers. I guess he assumes that working people all make an easy 5k a month, so getting another place to live if you work should be easy!
I assume the next step in his plan is “well people that never work should not deserve social housing anyway!”. So no social housing for people that work and no social housing for people that don’t work. And voila, social housing crisis solved!!! Another bonus is that if you move around people with foreign roots often enough, you’ll make it almost impossible for them to integrate, so he can claim that immigrants don’t want to integrate!
Sure, there are probably some cases of people living in those places that make more than enough to live somewhere else. But those will be exceptions. People able to live in a luxurious home, aren’t going to keep living in social housing…. But anyone who’s not an asshole/idiot solves this by putting a wage cap on social housing.
I’ve been saying it for years, but we need to find ways to cut severely on space. Full homes from OCMW are often taken up by people passing through, refugees(not in any way indicating they’re the only problem).
What they need to do is: build a large appartment like building in every city. Every room has a bed, and a sink(een lavabo), just pure basics, and it’s quite small so it’s mostly meant for just sleeping and small washing up. There are private shower stalls at the end of the hallways(males on one end, women on the other). Separate floors for couples, single males, single females, And for safety cameras constantly monitoring the hallways(no single males in the female floors and vice versa). Once in a while a drug sniffing dog goes through the hallway. Zero drugs policy.
On the ground floor there are communal rooms. A small gym, recreational stuff like a table tennis table, a reading room, tv, a place for preparing and eating food. (Still needs some work)
Who would this be for? Homeless people, refugees, people on a waiting list. It’s a pass through place, not meant that everyone stays there forever, some may stay some weeks, others max. a couple of months.
Just to avoid people to end up on the streets, and help them become social if needed, teach them skills, help them save some money. There are very strict (logical) rules like no drugs, no violence, different populaces either have to get along, or avoid each other(no fights because of race or religion or gender). There are always people present to help, and communal rooms and hallways have cameras, and there are safety buttons everywhere with an intercom system. One can press a normal button to get in touch with reception for information, or hit the emergency button when a man enters a single womans bedroom.
Is this idea perfect, not really, but it would open up so much space on the housing market. I know a guy who occupied a luxury apmartment once for a short term from OCMW. It was a pass through, because otherwise he was homeless. But every time someone came or left the place was empty for a long time cause they needed to clean etc… and it bothered me because the guy was undeserving(I knew plenty about him), nor did he respect the houserules about not smoking indoors.
Een max termijn is niet zo zeer nodig. Wel een herevaluatie om de zoveel tijd met de mogelijkheid om de mensen met hoger inkomen naar de privémarkt te sturen.
Ik ken persoonlijk meerdere gezinnen die 3000 euro en meer hebben en toch in hun sociale woning kunnen blijven.
Of iemand die een villa van ouders erfde dat stond te verkommeren omdat hij er niet in ging wonen door de lage huurprijs van zijn sociale woning.
Nog iemand anders die dan weer NIET WILT gaan werken omdat ze anders als gezin met 2 kinderen die intussen zelf al werken hun sociale woning dreigen te verliezen omdat hun inkomen dan te hoog zou zijn.
Je kan niet voor iedereen een algemene regel toepassen aangezien de ene situatie niet te vergelijken is met de andere, maar in sommige gevallen is het eerder een hangmat in plaats van een vangnet geworden terwijl anderen op jarenlange wachtlijsten komen te staan met maar de helft van het inkomen of zelfs nog minder.
Mongool
So what problem are they trying to solve?
If it is solving the amount of people looking for social housing this will work, by making people not eligable for social housing. It does not solve the problem of people looking for affordable housing though.
It is like that time they claimed that unemployement dropped because they stoped counting people unemployed for more then a certain amount of time.
Looks nice on the statistics, but is just a lie about what the real problem is.
Lets say they give those people support in renting on the private market, that would just mean that renting prices can increase even more as supply stays limited but the amount that can be spend increases. So this would just make people who rent out houses get more money. (if they lend in the bracket these people would be renting in)
Also, if you are ‘arbeidsongeschikt’ why would you after 9 years suddenly find a job? If you are 58, not highly educated and have one arm, who is going to hire you? Or what if you have a mental disability that makes functioning really difficult?
I dont see how this measure is going to solve anything except move people from his list to a different list. Basicly, just toss the problem to somebody else.
Limiting politicians to 9 years of service or less would be better.
humanfriendly plan from a welfed VLD’er
brb, buying slum property.
Allez, misschien moeten we gewoon tweede verblijven verbannen, of is dat niet zo populair bij de hoge pieten :p
Some things that would actually help the housing crisis:
– Make rules around building new housing more flexible. Maybe introduce basic housing rules and allow an upgrade path (with forethought planning)
– Give people that buy/build housing with the intention to live in them (more) subsidies/tax breaks (anything that lowers the cost).
– Make calculation on what a single Belgian worker can afford with a median income and tailor housing costs to that. Not this working couple middle class bullshit. We not only have a housing crisis, but also a social crisis with loneliness.
– Reduce taxation on companies that strive to pay their people good. This might help increase wages in regions outside Brussels economic zone.
Some drastic things that we can do, but will never happen:
– Create a federal/national company that builds quality housing at affordable pricing. This will put serious pressure on the private industry.
– Put a stop to downscaling, if you compare plot sizes to 25 years ago they have shrunk 3 times almost. If this trends continues we will be living in shoeboxes in 50 years.
– Seize buildings/land that is standing empty and use tax payer money to make it more interesting to make use of this land.
– Allow houses to be domilicilated if they are cut of public utility (most notability electricity).
Wouldn’t the easier solution be to raise fucking wages?
Oh I see, the “let’s make the problem of not having enough social housing not our problem anymore” strategy.
I am not saying that this is a good idea but something has to be done as people who are in real need have to wait too much time to get a house or an appartement because it’s only free when the people who live in it die in most of the cases.
I myself lived in a social housing due to poor situation of my parents. It was a block of 4 houses. I think we waited around 8 years to get one and had to switch several places before getting one.
Family in 1st house: a couple with 3 girls. Girls have finished their studies and left and both parents moved away to smaller house.
Family in 2nd house: Us. Me and parents. Moved in in 2011, graduated in 2014, bought a house in 2017 and moved my parents to live with me. The house is free since but has not been allocated since then. Moreover, there were around 5 houses on the street which were free for at least 2 years without being given to people. Noone knew why.
Family in 3rd house: an old woman and a guy around my age. The guy didn’t have any active social life/work so I wonder what will happen to him once the woman is gone.
Family in 4th house: old couple who did not have any children.
I think overall it’s well managed but I remember finding the environment quite depressing. People generally not working, if they do, they know that the price of their rent will rise, therefore, it makes no sens to them. As consequence, they have no motivation in life and they start fading away. It’s a vicious circle that must be stopped somewhere.
I didn’t like that place and my objective was to run from it asap and take my parents with me. Glad that I was lucky to finish my studies and get a decent job which allowed me to do that. But in our case, the waiting time was > than the time we lived in it, which is probably an exception as many residents lived there when we arrived and were still there when we left.
Lol, is he trying to one-up Diependaele or what?
Huisjesmelkers and boomer real estate hoarders rejoice!
wie bepaalt er wie er arbeidsgeschikt is en hoe? denk dat dat het belangrijkste hier is…
Hasn’t this been rejected?
Increase wages first.
Unless this plan includes something to fix the dumpster fire that the low end private housing market has become, this is nothing more than a recipe for disaster. An uninsulated storage closet is not a suitable home for a minimum wage earner when gas is so expensive it’s more cost effective to burn €5 bills.