Of course it is, Russia doesnt dick around with less than 2% gdp spent on military. While we should’ve reach 2% peacetime guideline in 2014 and even higher after 2022 invasion.
Europe supplies electronics, machinery, spare parts to Russia. Buys Russian petroleum and raw materials. And is expecting Russia to decrease arms production?
the russian secret is that russians dont give a fuck about their quality of life as long as their army does well
Germany: first time?
We should have given Ukraine what they needed two years ago. But oh giving main battle tanks will escalate the war. It happened anyway, and here we are, Russia has adjusted and now has a war economy. The West is a year behind, at least.
Well maybe y’all(EU) make arms and ammunition Numbers “A lot higher than expected”
Speaking as an American who has no idea what the true capabilities of the EU are, don’t take me as someone who wants to dissolve EU or NATO or whatever
No shit, Russian economy has switched to war mode. Anyone thinking they’re going to yield isn’t paying attention they’re just getting going
when you buy russian natural gas from india as a buy pass to sanctions and act surprised russia is still succeeding while germany is in a recession. i ask myself are you really that ignorant.
Putin told everyone in 2008 that Ukraine moving closer to NATO was a big red line. Yet the west ignored him and backed the 2014 maidan coup to overthrow an elected, pro-russia government.
Now its all “Putin just invaded peaceful Ukraine. We dont know why. Maybe he is just evil” messaging. The weapons industries needed a boogeyman and the pushed Putin’s buttons, for money.
Wait, what? I thought Russians were fighting with shovels.
It’s like we’re sleepwalking into this
Quick someone tell the Russians we have sanctioned them, they should be hurting.
Oh wait maybe the sanctions were meant so our energy cost can double.
>worries Europe’s war planners
Not enough to do anything; of course
If I had a nickel every time Western europe underestimated Attrition warfare from Russia I would have 3 nickels. Which isnt a lot but it will increase considering people really are blind when it comes to history
Edit: 4… counting the great northern war for my Swedish friends!
I’ve got a solution for that. It’s called long-range cruise missile, but let’s not cross imaginary red lines.
I’ve got the impression that Europe and the US and its allies are always sending the absolute bare minimum to Ukraine, just so that the front line doesn’t collapse.
Now they did not factor in stuff they cannot predict in the future.
Every day I read the news regarding Ukraine, my stomach starts hurting and the prospect that Putin might actually win seems ever more plausible. It will be the beginning of a very dark period in European history.
Maybe stop selling critical military hardware components to non NATO members then, and Turkey.
Turkey can keep what it’s got.
I don’t know, keep selling machinery and electronics to Russia via 3rd countries.
How could I, a lay person, have given this a good guess that the Russians would do much more than expected than these people?
Good thing NATO countries agreed to increase military spending. Hope it isn’t just for show.
So, at this point we could give Ukraine more long range weapons so that they can bomb that facilities
Never bank on your enemy making a mistake, plan everything as if their every move was right.
>A lot higher than we expected’: Russian arms production worries Europe’s war planners
Better get on it, boyz. And stop playing both sides of the field, while you’re at it. There’s no game in continuing trade with Russia while you’re preparing to go to war with them…
In the nineties we cut our defense everywhere we could and the argument was there would be at least ten years of warning before Russia could become a threat again.
The annexation of Crimea was 10 yrs ago, so where are the new tankbattalions?
Russia (read; Putin) has scaled-up to a fullgrown war-economy. Seeing that the Kremlin doesn’t give a rat’s ass about their citizens (besides the Oligarchs ofcourse), this means Russia will be able to withstand this war of attrition for much longer than everybody had calculated. Add the insane amount of inhumane ways workers across Russia are forced to work almost literally around the clock to fuel the warmachine, they are producing close to 4million arti-shells a year, some projections even say more than that in 2025. And with the prospect of having this orange bavoon back in the White House at the end of this year, things are looking pretty grimm… But hey, let’s just keep on debating and arguing amongst ourselves, then eventually it will be too late to turn the tide. Maybe it’s better to ram that Russki horse-dildo up our asses ourselves, if only to not give Putin the satisfaction of doing so! FUCK!!!
Because Russia is moving to a war economy, or is already there.
If Europe did the same it’d out-produce Russia ten times over, but there’s no need for us to do so.
“War procrastinators” more like it. Ww2 all over again. No sense of urgency at all
Yes, but how accurate are those figures? The ruzzian state does lie about everything.
Every century or so the “great Europe” starts to wage a war against Russia hoping for another outcome… It always ends the same. I guess that T-55 on the steps of Reichstag are due for an update.
“A lot higher than we expected”
And what exactly EU+NATO countries expected from Russia to do, after they, in 2022-2023 years, give to it 420 billion dollars?
So Russia freely spent billions of dollars on machine tools from India, China, Turkey.
After USA once again will fail passing security aid bill, the time will come to already admit that Russian WMD-blackmail just so good that West just incapable to compete with it by conventional weapons. Not outright, but by deficit of political will.
Russian WMD-blackmail like mind attack in DnD.
The West have enormous character characteristics. But because of extremely low wisdom, after WMD-blackmail mind attack it just incapable to do anything more than apathetically move. Give to Ukraine 1% of NATO weapon stocks, and for 2 years, spent less than what only USA 20 years in a row spent per year on Afghanistan.
Despite any words, papers, desires of 1945-2021 years. Despite any intellectual investments in International Law. Despite any dreams and hopes for a better future. It’s all just turned to be nothing relatively to Russian practical use of “WMD-Might make Right/True” logic/tactic. Relatively to primal principle of intimidation by larger baton.
They were keeping the war economy like a low burning fire basically
Then shut the fuck up with fear mongering and start pumping arms too you idiots
Ye… If u don’t enforce your sanctions this happens… And hear this … Russias production line still gets it’s eu supplies 🫨.. and Turkey has been making some money out of this?
Most of what they produce is complete and utter crap. They are cannibalising very old tanks to put some updated bits on to make them them half a chance and calling that new tanks. Very little state of the art equipment seems to be making it out there except the electronic warfare and some AA stuff.
The Navy is retreating whilst the air cover is almost non existent.
Edit – were not seeing new tanks and APV’s appearing on the battlefield, most is very outdated but some is refurbished from obsolete stockpiles. A lot of what they lob over in the form of artillery, large drones and missiles is being imported, but we can tell they have exhausted stockpiles because they date parts on the rockets that are recovered. Overall their strategy is a mess and lacks effectiveness against military targets, which is presumed to be why they target civilian infrastructure instead.
And yet again here we stand, dick in hand. It’s time to get a move on, all of us. The least we can do is match Poland and the Baltics on their NATO contributions.
The EU needs to get with the fact if Ukraine falls, they’re all lined-up for the block. Not to mention the ensuing refugee crisis, because we know how much they *love* those.
The USA won’t be immune either; a Europe in chaos will be felt there too. Especially if Putin decides he really does want Alaska back.
One thing I learned from history books is that even a peaceful nation with a huge military expenditure and/or a significant veteran population from previous conflicts will eventually seek war. And when it comes to Russia, the idea that they would stop at Ukraine is quite naive.
They’re currently spending (officialy) close to 30% of their budget on the defense sector, and according to some economists it’s actually closer to 40%. So yes, they’re producing a lot of things that can go bang.
But at the same time their economy is in shambles and getting worse due to budget cuts, attrition, and lack of manpower. Just as a small example, Ukrainians have recently been targeting rectification columns in russian refineries, with great success. That part is responsible for one of the first stages of rafination of crude oil into actual fuel, without it, nothing gets done.
According to the guys I watched, this kind of hardware would take at least 3 months to replace in peacetime, if they had easy access to the German manufacturers who supplied it. And the fun part is that the peak of fuel consumption in russia is near march/april.
What it means in practical terms is that russia is likely to experience severe fuel shortages in the coming months and will have to import fuel, despite being a producer. At the same time they will flood international markets with crude oil that they’re unable to process, possibly having to sell at a loss. Cascading system failures are already on their way, and it will get worse over time.
Yeah well, when will Europe stop the wishful thinking, I wonder.
Hitler was surprised as well when thousands of Russian tanks started pouring out.
How about we start off by making sure that anyone who is caught selling components to Russia goes to prison for a long time and then by using those components to massively increase production?
Also, increasing shell production like there is a war going on right now and not as if there might be one in a year or two.
41 comments
Of course it is, Russia doesnt dick around with less than 2% gdp spent on military. While we should’ve reach 2% peacetime guideline in 2014 and even higher after 2022 invasion.
Europe supplies electronics, machinery, spare parts to Russia. Buys Russian petroleum and raw materials. And is expecting Russia to decrease arms production?
the russian secret is that russians dont give a fuck about their quality of life as long as their army does well
Germany: first time?
We should have given Ukraine what they needed two years ago. But oh giving main battle tanks will escalate the war. It happened anyway, and here we are, Russia has adjusted and now has a war economy. The West is a year behind, at least.
Well maybe y’all(EU) make arms and ammunition Numbers “A lot higher than expected”
Speaking as an American who has no idea what the true capabilities of the EU are, don’t take me as someone who wants to dissolve EU or NATO or whatever
No shit, Russian economy has switched to war mode. Anyone thinking they’re going to yield isn’t paying attention they’re just getting going
when you buy russian natural gas from india as a buy pass to sanctions and act surprised russia is still succeeding while germany is in a recession. i ask myself are you really that ignorant.
Putin told everyone in 2008 that Ukraine moving closer to NATO was a big red line. Yet the west ignored him and backed the 2014 maidan coup to overthrow an elected, pro-russia government.
Now its all “Putin just invaded peaceful Ukraine. We dont know why. Maybe he is just evil” messaging. The weapons industries needed a boogeyman and the pushed Putin’s buttons, for money.
Wait, what? I thought Russians were fighting with shovels.
It’s like we’re sleepwalking into this
Quick someone tell the Russians we have sanctioned them, they should be hurting.
Oh wait maybe the sanctions were meant so our energy cost can double.
>worries Europe’s war planners
Not enough to do anything; of course
If I had a nickel every time Western europe underestimated Attrition warfare from Russia I would have 3 nickels. Which isnt a lot but it will increase considering people really are blind when it comes to history
Edit: 4… counting the great northern war for my Swedish friends!
I’ve got a solution for that. It’s called long-range cruise missile, but let’s not cross imaginary red lines.
I’ve got the impression that Europe and the US and its allies are always sending the absolute bare minimum to Ukraine, just so that the front line doesn’t collapse.
Now they did not factor in stuff they cannot predict in the future.
Every day I read the news regarding Ukraine, my stomach starts hurting and the prospect that Putin might actually win seems ever more plausible. It will be the beginning of a very dark period in European history.
Maybe stop selling critical military hardware components to non NATO members then, and Turkey.
Turkey can keep what it’s got.
I don’t know, keep selling machinery and electronics to Russia via 3rd countries.
How could I, a lay person, have given this a good guess that the Russians would do much more than expected than these people?
Good thing NATO countries agreed to increase military spending. Hope it isn’t just for show.
So, at this point we could give Ukraine more long range weapons so that they can bomb that facilities
Never bank on your enemy making a mistake, plan everything as if their every move was right.
>A lot higher than we expected’: Russian arms production worries Europe’s war planners
Better get on it, boyz. And stop playing both sides of the field, while you’re at it. There’s no game in continuing trade with Russia while you’re preparing to go to war with them…
In the nineties we cut our defense everywhere we could and the argument was there would be at least ten years of warning before Russia could become a threat again.
The annexation of Crimea was 10 yrs ago, so where are the new tankbattalions?
Russia (read; Putin) has scaled-up to a fullgrown war-economy. Seeing that the Kremlin doesn’t give a rat’s ass about their citizens (besides the Oligarchs ofcourse), this means Russia will be able to withstand this war of attrition for much longer than everybody had calculated. Add the insane amount of inhumane ways workers across Russia are forced to work almost literally around the clock to fuel the warmachine, they are producing close to 4million arti-shells a year, some projections even say more than that in 2025. And with the prospect of having this orange bavoon back in the White House at the end of this year, things are looking pretty grimm… But hey, let’s just keep on debating and arguing amongst ourselves, then eventually it will be too late to turn the tide. Maybe it’s better to ram that Russki horse-dildo up our asses ourselves, if only to not give Putin the satisfaction of doing so! FUCK!!!
Because Russia is moving to a war economy, or is already there.
If Europe did the same it’d out-produce Russia ten times over, but there’s no need for us to do so.
“War procrastinators” more like it. Ww2 all over again. No sense of urgency at all
Yes, but how accurate are those figures? The ruzzian state does lie about everything.
Every century or so the “great Europe” starts to wage a war against Russia hoping for another outcome… It always ends the same. I guess that T-55 on the steps of Reichstag are due for an update.
“A lot higher than we expected”
And what exactly EU+NATO countries expected from Russia to do, after they, in 2022-2023 years, give to it 420 billion dollars?
So Russia freely spent billions of dollars on machine tools from India, China, Turkey.
After USA once again will fail passing security aid bill, the time will come to already admit that Russian WMD-blackmail just so good that West just incapable to compete with it by conventional weapons. Not outright, but by deficit of political will.
Russian WMD-blackmail like mind attack in DnD.
The West have enormous character characteristics. But because of extremely low wisdom, after WMD-blackmail mind attack it just incapable to do anything more than apathetically move. Give to Ukraine 1% of NATO weapon stocks, and for 2 years, spent less than what only USA 20 years in a row spent per year on Afghanistan.
Despite any words, papers, desires of 1945-2021 years. Despite any intellectual investments in International Law. Despite any dreams and hopes for a better future. It’s all just turned to be nothing relatively to Russian practical use of “WMD-Might make Right/True” logic/tactic. Relatively to primal principle of intimidation by larger baton.
They were keeping the war economy like a low burning fire basically
Then shut the fuck up with fear mongering and start pumping arms too you idiots
Ye… If u don’t enforce your sanctions this happens… And hear this … Russias production line still gets it’s eu supplies 🫨.. and Turkey has been making some money out of this?
Most of what they produce is complete and utter crap. They are cannibalising very old tanks to put some updated bits on to make them them half a chance and calling that new tanks. Very little state of the art equipment seems to be making it out there except the electronic warfare and some AA stuff.
The Navy is retreating whilst the air cover is almost non existent.
Edit – were not seeing new tanks and APV’s appearing on the battlefield, most is very outdated but some is refurbished from obsolete stockpiles. A lot of what they lob over in the form of artillery, large drones and missiles is being imported, but we can tell they have exhausted stockpiles because they date parts on the rockets that are recovered. Overall their strategy is a mess and lacks effectiveness against military targets, which is presumed to be why they target civilian infrastructure instead.
And yet again here we stand, dick in hand. It’s time to get a move on, all of us. The least we can do is match Poland and the Baltics on their NATO contributions.
The EU needs to get with the fact if Ukraine falls, they’re all lined-up for the block. Not to mention the ensuing refugee crisis, because we know how much they *love* those.
The USA won’t be immune either; a Europe in chaos will be felt there too. Especially if Putin decides he really does want Alaska back.
One thing I learned from history books is that even a peaceful nation with a huge military expenditure and/or a significant veteran population from previous conflicts will eventually seek war. And when it comes to Russia, the idea that they would stop at Ukraine is quite naive.
They’re currently spending (officialy) close to 30% of their budget on the defense sector, and according to some economists it’s actually closer to 40%. So yes, they’re producing a lot of things that can go bang.
But at the same time their economy is in shambles and getting worse due to budget cuts, attrition, and lack of manpower. Just as a small example, Ukrainians have recently been targeting rectification columns in russian refineries, with great success. That part is responsible for one of the first stages of rafination of crude oil into actual fuel, without it, nothing gets done.
According to the guys I watched, this kind of hardware would take at least 3 months to replace in peacetime, if they had easy access to the German manufacturers who supplied it. And the fun part is that the peak of fuel consumption in russia is near march/april.
What it means in practical terms is that russia is likely to experience severe fuel shortages in the coming months and will have to import fuel, despite being a producer. At the same time they will flood international markets with crude oil that they’re unable to process, possibly having to sell at a loss. Cascading system failures are already on their way, and it will get worse over time.
Yeah well, when will Europe stop the wishful thinking, I wonder.
Hitler was surprised as well when thousands of Russian tanks started pouring out.
How about we start off by making sure that anyone who is caught selling components to Russia goes to prison for a long time and then by using those components to massively increase production?
Also, increasing shell production like there is a war going on right now and not as if there might be one in a year or two.