Interesting, and makes you wonder why they backed off this?
Sure, say it loud and clear. So Putin can invade Ukraine and at the same time sleep well at night. Imagine he could have nightmares because of the EU and US sanctions. Does EU think that appeasement works?
Brussels, Berlin Europe and the U.S. are defusing Western threats of sanctions against Moscow: The idea of cutting off Russian banks from the payment service provider Swift, and thus effectively from global financial flows, will not be pursued further. This is what Handelsblatt learned from government sources. Instead, targeted economic penalties are being prepared against Russia’s largest banks.
Americans and Europeans have been discussing for weeks how to respond in the event of a Russian military operation against Ukraine. The EU has threatened the Kremlin with “massive consequences,” but has not yet specified them.
Excluding Russia from the Swift system across the board is too delicate for the negotiators. The move could destabilize financial markets in the short term and promote the development of an alternative, non-Western-dominated payment infrastructure in the medium term.
Talks between the Europeans and the U.S. are now turning to the design of sanctions against major Russian banks. Germany is insisting on exceptions so that payment for gas and oil imports from Russia remains possible.
Whos surprised? Literally fucking no one. West was always impotent. Germany and Netherlands (among others) even voted russia back to PACE after they killed 4 germans and 200 dutch in mh17. Constant bend over position for the west is not something new.
Not “too delicate” but “too awkward”. Well, fuck.
So the EU has now cut off their balls, set them on fire and burrowed them 100m deep.
Then built a concrete apartment complex on top of that, demolished that and put a Chernobyl-type containment dome on top of that.
I don’t understand Germany, if they voted for sanctions on Russian banks, and they still want to do business with that country, won’t that back fire Germany it self? If you still want to do business for gas, oil, metal’s, and what not, won’t there be an extra cost for those banking fee’s, and won’t those fee’s would be transferred to end user, or how that would work?
Ps/edit: global business (banks) castrates, all countries for profit?
lol
So it’s pretty much a green light for Putin. Ukrainians really didn’t deserve this.
What can the EU do if anything?
Pipeline paying off already.
I’m really curious how or if sentiment will change if Russia decides on full scale invasion in Ukraine. Especially now Russian troops arrived near Polands border Belarus for training exercises.
This is the thing with democracies. Nobody wants to fight until a real aggressor attacks.
Anything they take off the table now can always come back on it
Another spineless moment from the leadership of the West.
They want to avoid any sort of financial tit-for-tat with anyone who can retaliate (Russia, China, the Gulf countries), because then the politicians will have to explain to angry voters why they feel the backlash of it.
And said angry voters might say they want to defend Ukraine etc., but when it comes to picking this or their country engaging in sanction wars which will result in their pocket being hurt, they will pick their pocket every day.
I’m going to say this is a good move. It would have hurt Russia in the short term, but it in the long term it would have contributed to the entrenchment of alternative payment method.
Pussies
Ukraine is on the menu bois!
Removing Russia from SWIFT would be counter productive in the long run. It would effectively force ‘non-Western’ countries to connect to more than one payment system because they could be next.
It may also mean that there is a deal between EU, US and Russia, and “sanctions off the table” is part of this deal – with another part of deal “not saying openly, what Russia has agreed on in return, so Russians won’t see Putin as the one who had to step back, despite reality”. Yes, I’m overoptimistic.
I’m shocked. Shocked!
Well, not that shocked.
The West can easily prevent a Russian innovation of Ukraine if they really wanted to. All they have to do is back the f off and guarantee that Ukraine will never join NATO. Easy right?
It will prevent a further conflict and won’t give Ukraine the illusion that they can rely on NATO.
By not backing off, they are part of the problem. They should have never expanded after collapse of USSR. In fact, NATO should have been dissolved the same moment as well. NATO is a solution for a problem that doesn’t exist and thus creates additional new problems.
> BERLIN (Reuters) – Western governments are no longer considering cutting Russian banks off from the Swift global payments system, Germany’s Handelsblatt newspaper reported, citing German government sources.
–
> A spokesperson for the White House National Security Council rejected the Handelsblatt story.
>
>“No option is off the table. We continue consulting very closely with European counterparts on severe consequences for Russia if it further invades Ukraine,” the spokesperson said.
>
>A German government source close to the matter told Reuters: “We can’t confirm. It is not decided yet.”
“promote the development of an alternative, non-Western-dominated payment infrastructure”
Can’t blame them, with China breathing down US neck.
My armchairing is that it would open the door of uncertainty for other countries, no matter how poor they might be. And would also give more room for growth for Chinese alternative which western countries probably like even less.
Aaaaand just like that you know it’s all a smoke and mirrors show.
Hear me out: I dislike the Russian State a lot, BUT
If the Russian don’t pull off any aggression and even if the West pulls out some troops from eastern Europe and even if NATO doesn’t expand to Ukraine, Sweden and Finland, if they can keep up the status quo, the West is in an advantageous position
With the continues development of renewable energy, EU countries will slowly become more independent from Russian gas and the Russian economic growth will under current conditions never be enough to satisfy the population
At the same time, I doubt that the Russian populus will be content with this god awful state and after a few decades (probably when Putin kicks the bucket), there will be massive instability and a desire to reform the state
That doesn’t mean we should just watch like the allies did in 38 when the Germans took out Czechoslovakia (meaning that when Russia attacks Ukraine or does stuff in the Baltics, NATO has to respond) but anything, that doesn’t benefit Russia and doesn’t hurt the West is a good deal.
28 comments
Interesting, and makes you wonder why they backed off this?
Sure, say it loud and clear. So Putin can invade Ukraine and at the same time sleep well at night. Imagine he could have nightmares because of the EU and US sanctions. Does EU think that appeasement works?
Brussels, Berlin Europe and the U.S. are defusing Western threats of sanctions against Moscow: The idea of cutting off Russian banks from the payment service provider Swift, and thus effectively from global financial flows, will not be pursued further. This is what Handelsblatt learned from government sources. Instead, targeted economic penalties are being prepared against Russia’s largest banks.
Americans and Europeans have been discussing for weeks how to respond in the event of a Russian military operation against Ukraine. The EU has threatened the Kremlin with “massive consequences,” but has not yet specified them.
Excluding Russia from the Swift system across the board is too delicate for the negotiators. The move could destabilize financial markets in the short term and promote the development of an alternative, non-Western-dominated payment infrastructure in the medium term.
Talks between the Europeans and the U.S. are now turning to the design of sanctions against major Russian banks. Germany is insisting on exceptions so that payment for gas and oil imports from Russia remains possible.
Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Putin certainly is a headache.
Whos surprised? Literally fucking no one. West was always impotent. Germany and Netherlands (among others) even voted russia back to PACE after they killed 4 germans and 200 dutch in mh17. Constant bend over position for the west is not something new.
Not “too delicate” but “too awkward”. Well, fuck.
So the EU has now cut off their balls, set them on fire and burrowed them 100m deep.
Then built a concrete apartment complex on top of that, demolished that and put a Chernobyl-type containment dome on top of that.
I don’t understand Germany, if they voted for sanctions on Russian banks, and they still want to do business with that country, won’t that back fire Germany it self? If you still want to do business for gas, oil, metal’s, and what not, won’t there be an extra cost for those banking fee’s, and won’t those fee’s would be transferred to end user, or how that would work?
Ps/edit: global business (banks) castrates, all countries for profit?
lol
So it’s pretty much a green light for Putin. Ukrainians really didn’t deserve this.
What can the EU do if anything?
Pipeline paying off already.
I’m really curious how or if sentiment will change if Russia decides on full scale invasion in Ukraine. Especially now Russian troops arrived near Polands border Belarus for training exercises.
This is the thing with democracies. Nobody wants to fight until a real aggressor attacks.
Anything they take off the table now can always come back on it
Another spineless moment from the leadership of the West.
They want to avoid any sort of financial tit-for-tat with anyone who can retaliate (Russia, China, the Gulf countries), because then the politicians will have to explain to angry voters why they feel the backlash of it.
And said angry voters might say they want to defend Ukraine etc., but when it comes to picking this or their country engaging in sanction wars which will result in their pocket being hurt, they will pick their pocket every day.
I’m going to say this is a good move. It would have hurt Russia in the short term, but it in the long term it would have contributed to the entrenchment of alternative payment method.
Pussies
Ukraine is on the menu bois!
Removing Russia from SWIFT would be counter productive in the long run. It would effectively force ‘non-Western’ countries to connect to more than one payment system because they could be next.
It may also mean that there is a deal between EU, US and Russia, and “sanctions off the table” is part of this deal – with another part of deal “not saying openly, what Russia has agreed on in return, so Russians won’t see Putin as the one who had to step back, despite reality”. Yes, I’m overoptimistic.
I’m shocked. Shocked!
Well, not that shocked.
The West can easily prevent a Russian innovation of Ukraine if they really wanted to. All they have to do is back the f off and guarantee that Ukraine will never join NATO. Easy right?
It will prevent a further conflict and won’t give Ukraine the illusion that they can rely on NATO.
By not backing off, they are part of the problem. They should have never expanded after collapse of USSR. In fact, NATO should have been dissolved the same moment as well. NATO is a solution for a problem that doesn’t exist and thus creates additional new problems.
This was [also posted here](https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/s6go3t/us_eu_drop_idea_of_removing_russia_from_swift/), and as I commented there, it seems that the White House rejected the Handlesblatt story:
https://wsau.com/2022/01/17/west-no-longer-mulling-cutting-off-russia-from-swift-handelsblatt/
> BERLIN (Reuters) – Western governments are no longer considering cutting Russian banks off from the Swift global payments system, Germany’s Handelsblatt newspaper reported, citing German government sources.
–
> A spokesperson for the White House National Security Council rejected the Handelsblatt story.
>
>“No option is off the table. We continue consulting very closely with European counterparts on severe consequences for Russia if it further invades Ukraine,” the spokesperson said.
>
>A German government source close to the matter told Reuters: “We can’t confirm. It is not decided yet.”
“promote the development of an alternative, non-Western-dominated payment infrastructure”
Can’t blame them, with China breathing down US neck.
My armchairing is that it would open the door of uncertainty for other countries, no matter how poor they might be. And would also give more room for growth for Chinese alternative which western countries probably like even less.
Aaaaand just like that you know it’s all a smoke and mirrors show.
Hear me out: I dislike the Russian State a lot, BUT
If the Russian don’t pull off any aggression and even if the West pulls out some troops from eastern Europe and even if NATO doesn’t expand to Ukraine, Sweden and Finland, if they can keep up the status quo, the West is in an advantageous position
With the continues development of renewable energy, EU countries will slowly become more independent from Russian gas and the Russian economic growth will under current conditions never be enough to satisfy the population
At the same time, I doubt that the Russian populus will be content with this god awful state and after a few decades (probably when Putin kicks the bucket), there will be massive instability and a desire to reform the state
That doesn’t mean we should just watch like the allies did in 38 when the Germans took out Czechoslovakia (meaning that when Russia attacks Ukraine or does stuff in the Baltics, NATO has to respond) but anything, that doesn’t benefit Russia and doesn’t hurt the West is a good deal.
This has been immediately denied by the US:
https://twitter.com/JacquiHeinrich/status/1483143139959451648