Good for them. I don’t know whether the rest of us should be outraged or pleased. Someone kindly educate me.
Personally fascinated to see the financials on this given rental prices for venues in London. Not like that they’ll show to me, but curious you know.
I have read that in general lesbians / women only bars are less profitable than gay / all pride / “everyone” bars because *in general* men spend more on alcohol.
So like I am in general unsure if a lesbian only bar is profitable enough to work in London given the rental costs, so I guess the business model is *either* that the controversy pays for itself *or* that there is an untapped market of cis lesbians willing to pay higher prices than elsewhere (margins and all that) in order to exclude trans people.
Separately curious how they’re going to enforce it – reminder that anti trans exclusion policies have a huge false positive against GNC cis people.
“It will be for biological females only and this is why we’re making it a members-only club so we can legally restrict it to women” I’m willing to bet they wouldn’t let a trans man in either
So you gotta drop your pants at the door and show the bouncer your fanny or…?
As a lesbian myself I’d love to see how they’re gonna possibly police this. Plus from the sound of it many lesbians have already decide to boycott the place. I’ll give it 12 months before it closes.
Like JKR’s ‘biological females only’ women’s shelter, it’s probably _just about_ legal for them to do this (discrimination to achieve a legitimate aim etc.), but unless they manage to convince all of London’s lesbians-who-exclude-trans-people to make this their regular haunt I can’t see them staying in business for too long unless they change tack when the initial hype dies off.
Edit: adjusted wording for greater accuracy and to remove a term that some people find offensive.
So if a trans-only place opened up. That would be equally bigoted and awful?
I think not. But let’s ignore the double-standard for now.
Even if allowed, would any trans go here?
Again, I think not. It would be boycotted by the trans.
So what’s the issue, really?
The real issue is it denies the social-media engagement magnet of a good, melodramatic “boycott” proclamation.
I’m really curious how they’re planning to enforce this. It’s not like they can do physical inspections, or read your chromosomes, and there are plenty of instances of cis lesbians being accosted for being in the ladies toilets because someone read them as trans…
Besides, it’ll probably be full of the dry-ass anti-social types who would put in the effort to attend somewhere like this just to avoid trans people. Probably about the same atmosphere as a dust eating competition in a library basement room
[deleted]
Everyone wondering how the organisers plan to make this work, there is more detail just a couple of clicks away, the first link in the article. They’re planning to use the space as a co-working cafe by day, offer online as well as physical membership, and this is a members club meaning they can vet members. It’s really not that confusing
So what? Why would you want to go to a place where you’re unwanted and unwelcome?
I wouldn’t walk into a gay men’s bar because I know that some (rightfully) don’t like females in their spaces. I go where I’m wanted, not tolerated.
I think most people are forgetting that they won’t need to police this by asking you to drop your trousers, because why on earth would you want to go here if you were trans in the first place? This idea will fizzle out and that will be the end of it. Don’t give her the press she so desperately craves.
This place is going to be heaving with straight women accusing each other of being trans isnt it?
They should put cameras inside it might be really funny.
The “We can always tell” crowd is about to be wrong, *again*.
14 comments
Good for them. I don’t know whether the rest of us should be outraged or pleased. Someone kindly educate me.
Personally fascinated to see the financials on this given rental prices for venues in London. Not like that they’ll show to me, but curious you know.
I have read that in general lesbians / women only bars are less profitable than gay / all pride / “everyone” bars because *in general* men spend more on alcohol.
So like I am in general unsure if a lesbian only bar is profitable enough to work in London given the rental costs, so I guess the business model is *either* that the controversy pays for itself *or* that there is an untapped market of cis lesbians willing to pay higher prices than elsewhere (margins and all that) in order to exclude trans people.
Separately curious how they’re going to enforce it – reminder that anti trans exclusion policies have a huge false positive against GNC cis people.
“It will be for biological females only and this is why we’re making it a members-only club so we can legally restrict it to women” I’m willing to bet they wouldn’t let a trans man in either
So you gotta drop your pants at the door and show the bouncer your fanny or…?
As a lesbian myself I’d love to see how they’re gonna possibly police this. Plus from the sound of it many lesbians have already decide to boycott the place. I’ll give it 12 months before it closes.
Like JKR’s ‘biological females only’ women’s shelter, it’s probably _just about_ legal for them to do this (discrimination to achieve a legitimate aim etc.), but unless they manage to convince all of London’s lesbians-who-exclude-trans-people to make this their regular haunt I can’t see them staying in business for too long unless they change tack when the initial hype dies off.
Edit: adjusted wording for greater accuracy and to remove a term that some people find offensive.
So if a trans-only place opened up. That would be equally bigoted and awful?
I think not. But let’s ignore the double-standard for now.
Even if allowed, would any trans go here?
Again, I think not. It would be boycotted by the trans.
So what’s the issue, really?
The real issue is it denies the social-media engagement magnet of a good, melodramatic “boycott” proclamation.
I’m really curious how they’re planning to enforce this. It’s not like they can do physical inspections, or read your chromosomes, and there are plenty of instances of cis lesbians being accosted for being in the ladies toilets because someone read them as trans…
Besides, it’ll probably be full of the dry-ass anti-social types who would put in the effort to attend somewhere like this just to avoid trans people. Probably about the same atmosphere as a dust eating competition in a library basement room
[deleted]
Everyone wondering how the organisers plan to make this work, there is more detail just a couple of clicks away, the first link in the article. They’re planning to use the space as a co-working cafe by day, offer online as well as physical membership, and this is a members club meaning they can vet members. It’s really not that confusing
So what? Why would you want to go to a place where you’re unwanted and unwelcome?
I wouldn’t walk into a gay men’s bar because I know that some (rightfully) don’t like females in their spaces. I go where I’m wanted, not tolerated.
I think most people are forgetting that they won’t need to police this by asking you to drop your trousers, because why on earth would you want to go here if you were trans in the first place? This idea will fizzle out and that will be the end of it. Don’t give her the press she so desperately craves.
This place is going to be heaving with straight women accusing each other of being trans isnt it?
They should put cameras inside it might be really funny.
The “We can always tell” crowd is about to be wrong, *again*.