>It meant no suitably qualified first aider was present for the trip, which broke Scout rules for expeditions. No formal written risk assessment was done before the Scouts ventured out onto the Orme.
That in itself should lead to jail.
>Mr Glaister said he had not warned any of the Scouts, including Ben, not to leave the paths up the Orme and he was not aware of the dangers of the cliff edges.
As should that.
>He agreed the Scout Association never monitored his activities or ensured any training he was supposed to undergo had ever been done.
As should that.
>Mr Glaister declined to answer a series of questions from a lawyer representing Ben’s family during the inquest after the coroner warned him he did not have to answer some questions if the answer was to incriminate himself.
Then arrest him on a charge of manslaughter. See if he’s more likely to answer questions when facing life in prison.
Really sad ..
But when I was in scouts .. we had these things called wide games.. we set up camp for a weekend in the woods, and spent the whole weekend throwing crowscarers at each other and blowing things up and firing slingshots with green pine comes at each other . Cannot see that happening now. Goodness knows how I have all my limbs still
There was a similar incident with the Army Cadets a while back in Scotland where they’d failed to control a boating trip and a Cadet drowned. The CO got a £5000 fine AFAIK
It seems the lack of planning and risk assessments is the leaders biggest downfalls here as accidents do happen and they were of an age that if they were given the correct guidance could go and walk on their own. For example York scouts do an escape and evade where they have to cover a set area over a 24 hour period while trying to avoid capture from leaders and network.
I lead girl guiding activities for years, as well as being a girl guide. This is not standard practice in outdoor activities. You set boundaries and ground rules, and you make sure the kids know any breach of those ground rules will result in their removal from the activity. You also do full risk assessments and you supervise the activities. The kids have freedom to be independent, but not licence to act like idiots.
It does require strong leadership and laying down the law to some extent. I remember I did a bonfire night activity with my brownies. We were going to have sparklers, light a bonfire and make hot chocolate and smores. I did the sparklers and some of the kids decided to run around with them, after explicitly being told not to. The sparklers went in a bucket and we went inside where they were told to make themselves useful and test all the pens and paints to see what’s dried out. The reason was because they disobeyed a safety instruction, so I couldn’t trust them and the rest of the activity was stopped for their own safety. Risky activities are great, but you need to be prepared to stop them if needed no matter how unpopular it makes you in the moment. I’d far rather a kid went home to whinge about how mean I am than went to hospital with life-changing burns.
He wasn’t a scout “Employee” he was an unpaid volunteer.
When I was a scout leader I was constantly surprised that people thought we got paid for doing it. We did it free because we believed in what the scout organization could offer young children.
There are lots of safe guarding regulations. They were not followed in this case and a young person lost his life due to negligent. But they were not an employee!!
6 comments
>It meant no suitably qualified first aider was present for the trip, which broke Scout rules for expeditions. No formal written risk assessment was done before the Scouts ventured out onto the Orme.
That in itself should lead to jail.
>Mr Glaister said he had not warned any of the Scouts, including Ben, not to leave the paths up the Orme and he was not aware of the dangers of the cliff edges.
As should that.
>He agreed the Scout Association never monitored his activities or ensured any training he was supposed to undergo had ever been done.
As should that.
>Mr Glaister declined to answer a series of questions from a lawyer representing Ben’s family during the inquest after the coroner warned him he did not have to answer some questions if the answer was to incriminate himself.
Then arrest him on a charge of manslaughter. See if he’s more likely to answer questions when facing life in prison.
Really sad ..
But when I was in scouts .. we had these things called wide games.. we set up camp for a weekend in the woods, and spent the whole weekend throwing crowscarers at each other and blowing things up and firing slingshots with green pine comes at each other . Cannot see that happening now. Goodness knows how I have all my limbs still
There was a similar incident with the Army Cadets a while back in Scotland where they’d failed to control a boating trip and a Cadet drowned. The CO got a £5000 fine AFAIK
It seems the lack of planning and risk assessments is the leaders biggest downfalls here as accidents do happen and they were of an age that if they were given the correct guidance could go and walk on their own. For example York scouts do an escape and evade where they have to cover a set area over a 24 hour period while trying to avoid capture from leaders and network.
I lead girl guiding activities for years, as well as being a girl guide. This is not standard practice in outdoor activities. You set boundaries and ground rules, and you make sure the kids know any breach of those ground rules will result in their removal from the activity. You also do full risk assessments and you supervise the activities. The kids have freedom to be independent, but not licence to act like idiots.
It does require strong leadership and laying down the law to some extent. I remember I did a bonfire night activity with my brownies. We were going to have sparklers, light a bonfire and make hot chocolate and smores. I did the sparklers and some of the kids decided to run around with them, after explicitly being told not to. The sparklers went in a bucket and we went inside where they were told to make themselves useful and test all the pens and paints to see what’s dried out. The reason was because they disobeyed a safety instruction, so I couldn’t trust them and the rest of the activity was stopped for their own safety. Risky activities are great, but you need to be prepared to stop them if needed no matter how unpopular it makes you in the moment. I’d far rather a kid went home to whinge about how mean I am than went to hospital with life-changing burns.
He wasn’t a scout “Employee” he was an unpaid volunteer.
When I was a scout leader I was constantly surprised that people thought we got paid for doing it. We did it free because we believed in what the scout organization could offer young children.
There are lots of safe guarding regulations. They were not followed in this case and a young person lost his life due to negligent. But they were not an employee!!