Ukraine Isn’t Putin’s War—It’s Russia’s War. Jade McGlynn’s books paint an unsettling picture of ordinary Russians’ support for the invasion and occupation of Ukraine
by DerGun88
Ukraine Isn’t Putin’s War—It’s Russia’s War. Jade McGlynn’s books paint an unsettling picture of ordinary Russians’ support for the invasion and occupation of Ukraine
by DerGun88
47 comments
>Two books by British historian Jade McGlynn published during 2023 provide uncomfortable answers. Russia’s War gives one of those answers in its title: In direct and conscious contrast to a rash of other current book titles that lay the blame squarely on Russian President Vladimir Putin, McGlynn concludes that the Russian state, with the conscious collusion of part or most of its population, has achieved significant and widespread support at home for its war of colonial reconquest in Ukraine.
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>RUSSIA’S WAR WILL UPSET A LOT OF PEOPLE. There’s a substantial group among Russians abroad—or at least, among those who do not wholeheartedly approve of the war—who make their point that not all Russians are to blame for it by attempting to attach that blame to Putin personally.
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>But McGlynn firmly rejects the idea that this is Putin’s war alone. “Russia’s war on Ukraine is popular with large numbers of Russians and acceptable to an even larger number,” she writes. “Putin banked on the population’s approval and he cashed it.”
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>McGlynn’s book is also a direct challenge to those Western journalists, academics, and Russophiles who cling to the belief that the country is a frustrated democracy, as well as the idea that left to their own devices, Russians would install a liberal government that was less inclined to repress its own subjects and wage wars of aggression abroad. That’s a belief that has often been formed in conversation with urban, liberal Russians—the kind who are now largely in exile or jail.
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>In the absence of any discernible public opposition, Russians’ attitudes range from complete apathy to the frenzied enthusiasm for the war encouraged by propagandist “Z-channels” on Telegram, urging the military on to commit ever greater savagery in Ukraine. These channels, broadcasting to hundreds of thousands of subscribers—where footage of atrocities receives a joyous reaction—would not be possible in a country where backing for the onslaught on Ukraine was not widespread.
Thank you. Finally someone in the West said that country = people and vice versa.
And this is completely true!
After two years of war, the West finally started to understand.
Better late than never
Waiting till ‘good Russians’ wll come and tell us that sharing responsibility for attrocities and war crimes Russia commits in Ukraine and other countries to all Russians in Nazism.
Who could have thought that it’s not little vlad itself who commits war craimes during almost 2 years on a daily basics. Not him who’s cheering in social medias each rocket that has hit hospital, school, mall or residential building.
“Support our troops” anyone?
Same as Gazan. They won’t have any problem when HAMAS attacked and kill Israel. In fact, they will cheer HAMAS. Only when Israel retaliated. They all act like they are the victim. And the world and UN basically suck on their shit.
Is time for people to tell religions group that they don’t have special right. They religions belief don’t give them special right. And all countries should separate religion from government. They should be law about it.
Resident russian expats won’t be happy to see their dirty laundry hung out like that.
They are supporting it until they are on the front line themselves and dying.
Well yeah. Ukraine has been oppressed and dehumanized by Russia for more than 300 years. I’m pretty sure Putin wasn’t around back then to start all this shit
Ah, collective punishment is alive and well. It seems like people are jumping from on extreme to another.
It was obvious from the start that this wasn’t literally just the Russian government’s war. That’s a naive and stupid take, of course vast swaths of the population support these regimes either actively, or technically by not rebelling. And now we’ve fallen into the other extreme thinking that people who don’t risk their livelyhood, don’t risk jail or their very lives are essentially equally guilty.
That’s a pretty hypocritical high horse to be on, take care not to fall too hard when shit hits the fan in Western countries.
Its so funny to watch western media discovering shit poland has been talking about for the last 10+years.
It’s great that western societies are beginning to understand the nature of russians in this conflict. I remember when it all started reddit was choke full of posts sympathetic to an ordinary russian and blaming it all on Putin. Better late than never.
Ofcourse it is. Sadly mods bans people who claims that is not one mans war. Majority of russia supports this war. Russia is a fascist state.
We know. The Russians are howling for blood. Not just Ukranian blood, but ours too. They fucking hate us.
took you fucking long enough
2 goddam years
christ
Yet the media always portrays “it’s putin’s war”. 🍊🍊🍊
Obviously. But no well-informed russian approves of the war. The propaganda is all the ordinary russian sees, and the ones who would actually oppose it are being jailed, killed or flee into exile. So what’s left? Only the agnostics or the pro war brainwashed vatniks
Next step – realization that many “friendly ruzzian neighbors” in western countries with western passports are also supporting this war and can any time turn against the western country they are living in(even though they are using all the benefits of it).
Will take next 5-10 years I guess
> Why of course the people don’t want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don’t want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
> **Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.**
— Hermann Göring
If you’re American, remember the Iraq war? “Freedom Fries”?
As a Russian, I unfortunately partially agree. There’s a lot of people who support it here. It’s not the majority, but most people absolutely don’t see much problem with it. It’s this “if it doesn’t affect me personally, I don’t really give a fuck attitude” that caused a lot problems in out politics. It allowed Putin to solidify his power and transition the country into a police state because the majority simply didn’t care to go out and protest. I talked with a few people about it, and it often goes something like “yeah civilian losses are terrible, but they wanted to attack/Putin probably knows what he’s doing”.
Living next to Russia and having Russians – both citizens of Russia and citizens of other countries, including my own, but ethnically Russian or some other formerly USSR state – living amongst people here, it’s always been clear that there are “normal” Russians who basically just want to live and let live and who do their utmost to adapt to the country they’re living in and then there are Russians who have been soaked through and through the Russian imperialistic mindset, to such a degree that they themselves could be harmed for the better good of the empire and they’d walk to the gallows singing and dancing.
There’s something wrong and broken in the national psyche of those Russians who have the mindset of Russian imperialism embedded into them. They’re so proud over their country – despite their country being far from the best in the world in so many levels – and they are so smug. Their country could be great – just as they believe it to be so and advertise it as such – but any attempt or any serious discussion gets thrown out in the “crabs in the bucket” style. They’re nihilistic and cruel to their own people, and yet they mock other countries for less. They think they are the constant victims and yet victim-blame others, calling them weak and pussies. They also think they’re being constantly attacked purely because they’re Russian and not because their behaviour or attitudes are vile, cruel, self-important and lack any sense of self-reflection.
They’ve been threatening their neighbours for years since the end of Cold War and they seem to think that they have the ultimate and inherent right to be the top dog in the food chain. It’s good to see that some people have woken up to this, but alarming that so many still haven’t and even refuse to still see it.
The Russians with imperialist mindset think they’re better than everybody else. They would gladly crush people under their boots for the sole pleasure that they can. And the war in Ukraine feeds the pleasure buttons in the brains of these people. “Russia is great and look how much everybody fears us now!” – this is their mindset, this is what gives them pleasure; that we’re afraid of Russia or what Russian armed forces can do. It’s not just about bombing cities, but the sick pleasure of hearing how Russian armed forces r-pe and pillage and execute people mafia style gives to these sick-minded people a pleasure boost, because it means other people fear them and fear their army and that, to an average Russian that is heavily soaked through with propaganda about Russian uniqueness and greatness, is a sign that Russia has come back to its proper place which many Russians think they lost after the end of Cold War.
Say what you want about French, Americans, British or Germans – their officials and their people in general, I dare to say, do not take pleasure or an ounce of pride when their armed forces are found out to r-ape, kill and execute civilians. It’s an act of shame, largely, as it should be.
Yet ever since I was small – and admittedly, it may have been ethnically and morally wrong thing to say to a kid – I’ve heard that “when a Russian man beats you, he loves you” and that “Russians are much more passionate people in relationships, but those passions also translate into beatings and bruises”.
I’m not the only person to have grown up with this “wisdom”. All Russia has done in the last 2 years is to prove EVERY SINGLE national prejudice that exists about them as urban legend – now only there’s proof that they’re just like my grandparents and great-grandparents told me.
Certain Chechen president predicted all of this, but West was more interested in whitewashing Russia.
Sadly yes. It’s a story of both propaganda working and that empires must be crushed. Otherwise there is always a desire for revanchism.
Please join demonstrations in support of Ukraine these days. It has been 2 years since Russia launched its fullscale invasion.
Help us defend our freedoms. ♥️
I’m from Iceland and i play with a bunch of russians and the older ones support the war while the younger ones hate it.
>Ukraine isn’t Putin’s war, it’s Russias war
Putin would say exactly the same thing. Its part of Kremlin propaganda to keep dissent hidden and marginalized. This same propaganda gets distributed online by the kremlin troll farms, bots and useful idiots in other countries.
I wonder which are you?
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You have to be brave to protest in Russia given showing dissent can get you beaten, tortured, abused, imprisoned and your family targeted. There have been many brave Russians who stood up against Putin’s regime despite knowing these risks to themselves and their families. Context and Proof below.
[Political opposition & Protests against the Russian invasion of Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#:~:text=A%20number%20of%20Russian%20entrepreneurs,the%20Russian%20military%20forces%20to)
In the first few months of the war there were many protests across 60+ cities in Russia with almost 50k protesters in Moscow alone and many thousands in Saint Petersburg.
Over 20,000 people arrested in first few months and many thousands since. They protested despite the risk to their lives and their families. They protested despite the risk of torture, losing their careers and 15 years in prison.
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https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/10/20/russian-police-are-torturing-anti-war-activists
Russian Police are Torturing Anti-War Activists
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/russia-moscow-police-beat-torture-women-ukraine-war-protests/
Moscow police beat and torture women after anti-war protests
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/26/russia-protests-dissent-activists-skochilenko/
In Putin’s Russia, antiwar protesters face prison and abuse
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-anti-war-protests-crackdown-arrests/31745114.html
Thousands Arrested At Russian Anti-War Protests In ‘Increasingly Brutal Crackdown,’ Says Watchdog
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2017/06/23/protesters-claim-of-abuse-and-use-of-pepper-spray-while-in-detention-a58254
Russian Police Pepper-Sprayed Protesters in a Cell
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-anti-war-activist-smirnova-prison-internet-posts/32571374.html
Russian Anti-War Activist Sentenced To Six Years In Prison For Internet Posts
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-tatarstan-blogger-three-years-prison/32589358.html
Blogger In Tatarstan Gets Three Years In Prison For Calling On Russian Soldiers To Desert
https://www.the-express.com/news/world-news/128577/alexei-navalny-mourners-forced-Russian-military
Alexei Navalny mourners arrested and ‘forced to sign up with Russian military’
*“Two hours before we were released, we were taken into a room where some men were sitting and handing out summonses. They said if we didn’t sign, they would break our fingers.*
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/08/11/russia-targets-activists-families-as-efforts-to-muzzle-dissent-spread-a82113
Russia Targets Activists’ Families as Efforts to Muzzle Dissent Spread
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There’s plenty more articles about the abuse Russian protesters take and some activists have been locked up for years. Online and offline activists have faced long Prison terms and their families targeted.
Despite this More than 30,000 technology workers, 6,000 medical workers, 3,400 architects, more than 4,300 teachers, more than 17,000 artists, 5,000 scientists, and 2,000 actors, directors, and other creative figures signed open letters calling for Putin’s government to stop the war.
Over 281,000 Russians signed a petition to impeach Putin. Russians who signed petitions against Russia’s war in Ukraine have already lost their jobs.
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https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/07/russia-20000-activists-subject-to-heavy-reprisals-as-russia-continues-to-crack-down-on-anti-war-movement-at-home/
20,000 activists subject to heavy reprisals as Russia continues to crack down on anti-war movement at home
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Many anti-War anti Government Russian Journalists & activists have been shot, poisoned and imprisoned.
To put it in prospective in most EU countries the protests against the Iraq war were far less in size apart from my home country the United Kingdom. Protesters are ALWAYS a minority of the population yet there was massive protests in a country where you risk getting tortured and your family targeted.
Russians have risked more to try stop this war than European countries did to stop the illegal Iraq war.
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There has been plenty of Political opposition to they Ukraine war and the Government in Russia but you get shot, poisoned, thrown out a window, imprisoned for years and your family targeted with the same murderous intent.
Some Political opposition that fled the country have been assassinated with their entire family murdered. There was a story were a entire family was found shot dead in their home. No sign of theft. Just executed.
The Russian pilot who defected to Ukraine was also murdered.
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/08/russian-anti-war-candidate-boris-nadezhdin-says-he-is-barred-from-election
Despite this a anti-war political candidate Nadezhdin stood up to Putin recently gaining the required signatures and support extremely quickly. So quickly that Putin had to stop them from gaining any more support by disqualifying them.
Another openly anti-war candidate, Yekaterina Duntsova, was also disqualified by the elections commission, which refused to accept her nomination because of alleged errors in her paperwork, including spelling mistakes.
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Putin is so scared of the Russian people dissenting he won’t even release Alexei Navalny body to his grieving mother. Putin’s afraid that his gravesite would become a monument to Russian dissent encouraging others to rise up.
I liked the sentence about people criticism regarding the way the attack is managed vs critism towards the purpose of the war. My relatives are talking about “young generation dying like in Afghanistan” but they never question the initial purpose…
Fucking finally. As if we eastern europeans werent saying that to you smug westerners since the beginning
Ever notice this collective guilt is applied only to countries that do things west disagrees with? Imagine saying “It wasn’t just Bush’s war, all Americans bear responsibility for war in Iraq and what happened there” and then cite wide support for war among population, media and politicians. Or say all Israelis bear responsibility for what IDF is doing and what is happening in occupied territories and was happening in Lebanon, but that will quickly get you labelled a literal Nazi. But blaming all Russians for war and all Palestinians for what Hamas is doing? Perfectly acceptable.
Yes, yes, we are all bloodthirsty orks here. Just drop atomic bomb on us and that’s it
Ye. Like Russians against war can even say something’s. Russia got the biggest inland military. If u kill some one u get like 7 years. If u say something against war it’s like 9-12.
And I don’t talk about propaganda which has been active for more than 10 years.
THIS IS WHAT WE TOLD YOU FROM THE BEGINNING
They find out two years later lmao
Just imagine Nazi Germany. That’s basically it. Why waste words here?
No shit…Putin didn’t happen in vacuum.
While Russia uses their unity for evil, our western societies are so hopelessly fractured we can’t even defend ourselves. While it may be distasteful to say, Russians have a patriotism that we lack. If we hope to defeat Russia in future conflicts, we must figure out a way to restore patriotism to our societies.
Let’s see how much they will support it when rockets fly on moscow and saint-petersburg.
Me when i post a photo of 100 russians that are pro-putin (meaning all 140 millions of russian support Ukrainian war, including people like Navalny, Poperechny, Nadezdin and countless other members of opposition)
Reddit warriors are ready, sir! When shall we start recruiting them for the war against Russia?
What’s the point of this narrative though?
Yes, large majority of Russians officially support the war. But this number includes:
– Those who oppose the war but will officially support it out of fear.
– Those who are apolitical or apathetic towards politics and will not seek or even actively avoid anything related to this war. These people will officially almost certainly support the war effort, simply because anything else would potentially negatively impact their day to day lives. I suspect this is largest group of Russian population, as having same leadership and effectively 0 say in politics breeds apathy.
– Those who genuinely support the war, but do so because they’re being misled by propaganda and would likely pull their support were they better educated on what is going on.
– Those who understand what is going on, but still support the war due to imperialistic tendencies or simply to stick it up to the west.
Outside of the last group, evers other group could potentially be persuaded to oppose this war. But what sucks about repeating this narrative the most is that it plays right into what Putin wants. Even those few Russians who actively oppose the war and protest will be discouraged to continue doing it if everyone else (both in Russia and in the west) is convinced that all Russians support Putin and that’s a done deal.
It was a second year of war. Westerners have found out, that putin doesn’t launch all the missiles himself.
It’s a lie.
In 2015, my husband and I visited Russia from a cruise. The tour guide introduced herself and in the introduction said, “We are an aggressive people, and make no mistake, Ukraine is part of Russia.”
Are we pretending that the russian populace is a well informed, beacon of intellectualism, historians and geo-political strategists? They’ve been fed for generations neatly packaged, nationalistic stories, slogans and revisionist narratives…while at the same time completely demolishing and disappearing any and all opposing views, just one step behind North fuckin Korea. Not to say that they’re any way lesser or more gullible than any other people (you and I would most likely have the exact same ideas as them, given their circumstances).
This to me has a wif of rusophobia/xenophobia, and Putin PR.
And sure, you could say the same about Putin, that he’s the consequence of a fucked up system, but then again…unlike regular russians, he’s had access to any and all other philosophies from around the globe, yet he chose to double down on this one narrative…and seeing how strong-man inclined the culture is, he could have changed said narrative, if he so chose.
He did not. So fuck him, fuck his narrative, fuck his system and fuck HIS war.
There is no good Russia s in Russia they are all brainwashed 🐑🐑🐑🐑