i suspect it will go up automatically as soon as the older part of the population starts to die out and release owned property in the process, thus lowering housing prices and creating incentive for younger people to make more children in their own houses
just don’t import flocks of third worlders because “le economy is le dying”
Bobr Kurwa
[deleted]
If we don’t beat the French in this at least, I will buy a pair of lederhose and impregnate the entire Oktoberfest for the glory of Prussia 🇩🇪⚔️🔥
Damn we are getting few kids
Great news, Russia and China are having depopulation.
Wow Spain is doomed
1.16 in Spain ? Well damn
What’s the “safe” number for fertility in a given population? 2.1 iirc?
why is france so high?
There’s a company in Korea that will pay their employees $75000 if they have a kid. Will be interesting to see how that goes.
We are effed
wow i am actually kinda surprised bout czechia, that’s a lot compered to other countries
How a family could cope nowadays when money end up in a few oligarchs across Europe? One doesn’t have to be a communist to realise this.
So how bad is it? Given a fertility rate and a 100 people in one generation, how many will you have in 1, 2, 3 generations from now? Look it up in the table of doom.
*This simplistically assumes 2 is enough to maintain equilibrium. It was traditionally assumed 2.1 was needed, although dropping infant mortality would put it somewhere between 2 and 2.1. TLDR: it will even be slightly worse.*
All below the replacement percentage
That’s what I mean when I say that the “but births are decreasing everywhere!” is way too simplistic as an argument.
Yes, births are decreasing everywhere, but managing to maintain even just 1.5-1.7 is a lot better than 1.1-1.3.
Are we doomed?
I’m not sure about Spain, Italy and Lithuania, but the main reason why Poles are not having more children is the housing situation.
At least half of young adults living in big cities are renting their place. The landlord can tell you at any moment that you have to move out within a month. Who would want to bring children into that?
The sooner the governments wake up the better for our societies…
Meanwhile Polish governments (both previous and current) seem to think that introducing a benefit like 500+ (500pln each month per child) will fix the problem…
**Give people a sense of safety and stability** and the situation will change.
Europe’s going to become an extension of some other cultural and racial region unless the birthrates increase. Even with these numbers I’ve read Romania, and the Balkans, are carried by the copper wire merchants.
Every natalist financial policy at best budges it slightly upward so it doesn’t seem too beneficial. Learning from religious minorities, both native or foreign, on how they maintain their natalist culture might be useful.
This is actual crisis that elites around the world ignore
Why the colour scale of this map is fucking terrible.
Bigger numbers should be darker colour and opposite.
Fall of EU
Decades of austerity and business friendly policies that go against worker wellbeing… Results are clear
Malta with the dubious honour of having the worst fertility rate in all of EU.
I’m curious about the distribution. For example, in Spain, do 9 women out of 10 have a single child, while the 10th woman has two? Or do 5 women have no children while 5 have one or two?
For Sweden, my guess would be that half the women have one child and the other half have two, roughly speaking.
Does anyone know the general pattern here?
Darker color for lower number is counter intuitive to me.
Yeah but dont forget were 50% foreigners. The ferility rate of native luxembourgers is abysmal. When immigrations stops here were fucked sooner or later.
What overpriced housing, high tax pressure and cost of living will do to a society. NL would be around one if it wasn’t for mass immigration.
I hate that this is called the fertility rate. This has nothing to do with fertility. This has to do with economics and social security. These are at an all time low for the people in the age group to get kids. It is not like we cant physically have kids, but no one is willing to (even if they wish they had kids) because they cant even take care of themselves properly.
I won’t even think of having children without at least owning my own place to live first. But I live in Germany and, although I work in IT, it’s almost impossible for me to get reasonable mortgage loans.
I wonder if all of this is the shockwave from tearing down the social order and expectations in the 60s.
Not that it was particularly fair back then but a vacuum was left which seems to have been filled by a market-driven profitable consumer and leisure culture.
This was also accompanied by several decades of rising blame and mistrust across the genders. So now we have limited social roles and identities to reference and we are also encouraged to stay young (great for consumerism) for longer. Our time ‘playing’ has vastly expanded from the days of becoming an adult at 18 and putting aside our toys.
Add on to this the utter misery of the housing crisis in almost every developed country and you have a perfect storm.
All of which means we need to get a handle on what matters, push back on consumer culture, reconnect with each other and design our world to align with our values.
Just one opinion of course. Could be entirely wrong.
France baise ouais !
More space for the arabs
Explains the refugees. Niger has a birth rate of 7.
Who wants kids with the constant bad news about climate change and impending war? Who can afford kids with the cost of everything? It’s doom on all sides and people are considering if they want to bring a life into what will be a potentially fucked up world.
Rename to european goverments ability to provide good conditions for starting families…. time to increase those retirements!
We’re in the UK and we’re wanting a baby in the next few years but the costs are just ridiculous. How the hell do we afford to pay for childcare, a mortgage and financial stability?
I also got told I will lose my job at some point soon so I need to find a new role but it just goes to show how fragile financial stability is.
The government is trying to nuke pensions, it’s already 67 for state pension, and will probably be 71 by the time we get to retirement at least. Pensioners have their pension triple locked so we’re all paying for them to maintain an inflation free lifestyle meanwhile we all suffer.
39 comments
Source: https://300gospodarka.pl/news/tak-wyglada-zapasc-demograficzna-dzietnosc-w-polsce-wsrod-najnizszych-w-ue-wykresy#google_vignette
i suspect it will go up automatically as soon as the older part of the population starts to die out and release owned property in the process, thus lowering housing prices and creating incentive for younger people to make more children in their own houses
just don’t import flocks of third worlders because “le economy is le dying”
Bobr Kurwa
[deleted]
If we don’t beat the French in this at least, I will buy a pair of lederhose and impregnate the entire Oktoberfest for the glory of Prussia 🇩🇪⚔️🔥
Damn we are getting few kids
Great news, Russia and China are having depopulation.
Wow Spain is doomed
1.16 in Spain ? Well damn
What’s the “safe” number for fertility in a given population? 2.1 iirc?
why is france so high?
There’s a company in Korea that will pay their employees $75000 if they have a kid. Will be interesting to see how that goes.
We are effed
wow i am actually kinda surprised bout czechia, that’s a lot compered to other countries
How a family could cope nowadays when money end up in a few oligarchs across Europe? One doesn’t have to be a communist to realise this.
So how bad is it? Given a fertility rate and a 100 people in one generation, how many will you have in 1, 2, 3 generations from now? Look it up in the table of doom.
||0|1|2|3|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|2|100|100|100|100|
|1.9|100|95|90.25|85.7375|
|1.8|100|90|81|72.9|
|1.7|100|85|72.25|61.4125|
|1.6|100|80|64|51.2|
|1.5|100|75|56.25|42.1875|
|1.4|100|70|49|34.3|
|1.3|100|65|42.25|27.4625|
|1.2|100|60|36|21.6|
|1.1|100|55|30.25|16.6375|
|1|100|50|25|12.5|
*This simplistically assumes 2 is enough to maintain equilibrium. It was traditionally assumed 2.1 was needed, although dropping infant mortality would put it somewhere between 2 and 2.1. TLDR: it will even be slightly worse.*
All below the replacement percentage
That’s what I mean when I say that the “but births are decreasing everywhere!” is way too simplistic as an argument.
Yes, births are decreasing everywhere, but managing to maintain even just 1.5-1.7 is a lot better than 1.1-1.3.
Are we doomed?
I’m not sure about Spain, Italy and Lithuania, but the main reason why Poles are not having more children is the housing situation.
At least half of young adults living in big cities are renting their place. The landlord can tell you at any moment that you have to move out within a month. Who would want to bring children into that?
The sooner the governments wake up the better for our societies…
Meanwhile Polish governments (both previous and current) seem to think that introducing a benefit like 500+ (500pln each month per child) will fix the problem…
**Give people a sense of safety and stability** and the situation will change.
Europe’s going to become an extension of some other cultural and racial region unless the birthrates increase. Even with these numbers I’ve read Romania, and the Balkans, are carried by the copper wire merchants.
Every natalist financial policy at best budges it slightly upward so it doesn’t seem too beneficial. Learning from religious minorities, both native or foreign, on how they maintain their natalist culture might be useful.
This is actual crisis that elites around the world ignore
Why the colour scale of this map is fucking terrible.
Bigger numbers should be darker colour and opposite.
Fall of EU
Decades of austerity and business friendly policies that go against worker wellbeing… Results are clear
Malta with the dubious honour of having the worst fertility rate in all of EU.
I’m curious about the distribution. For example, in Spain, do 9 women out of 10 have a single child, while the 10th woman has two? Or do 5 women have no children while 5 have one or two?
For Sweden, my guess would be that half the women have one child and the other half have two, roughly speaking.
Does anyone know the general pattern here?
Darker color for lower number is counter intuitive to me.
Yeah but dont forget were 50% foreigners. The ferility rate of native luxembourgers is abysmal. When immigrations stops here were fucked sooner or later.
What overpriced housing, high tax pressure and cost of living will do to a society. NL would be around one if it wasn’t for mass immigration.
I hate that this is called the fertility rate. This has nothing to do with fertility. This has to do with economics and social security. These are at an all time low for the people in the age group to get kids. It is not like we cant physically have kids, but no one is willing to (even if they wish they had kids) because they cant even take care of themselves properly.
I won’t even think of having children without at least owning my own place to live first. But I live in Germany and, although I work in IT, it’s almost impossible for me to get reasonable mortgage loans.
I wonder if all of this is the shockwave from tearing down the social order and expectations in the 60s.
Not that it was particularly fair back then but a vacuum was left which seems to have been filled by a market-driven profitable consumer and leisure culture.
This was also accompanied by several decades of rising blame and mistrust across the genders. So now we have limited social roles and identities to reference and we are also encouraged to stay young (great for consumerism) for longer. Our time ‘playing’ has vastly expanded from the days of becoming an adult at 18 and putting aside our toys.
Add on to this the utter misery of the housing crisis in almost every developed country and you have a perfect storm.
All of which means we need to get a handle on what matters, push back on consumer culture, reconnect with each other and design our world to align with our values.
Just one opinion of course. Could be entirely wrong.
France baise ouais !
More space for the arabs
Explains the refugees. Niger has a birth rate of 7.
Who wants kids with the constant bad news about climate change and impending war? Who can afford kids with the cost of everything? It’s doom on all sides and people are considering if they want to bring a life into what will be a potentially fucked up world.
Rename to european goverments ability to provide good conditions for starting families…. time to increase those retirements!
We’re in the UK and we’re wanting a baby in the next few years but the costs are just ridiculous. How the hell do we afford to pay for childcare, a mortgage and financial stability?
I also got told I will lose my job at some point soon so I need to find a new role but it just goes to show how fragile financial stability is.
The government is trying to nuke pensions, it’s already 67 for state pension, and will probably be 71 by the time we get to retirement at least. Pensioners have their pension triple locked so we’re all paying for them to maintain an inflation free lifestyle meanwhile we all suffer.