The answer to this stupidity is to train a lot more doctors and pay junior doctors better. And also to prosecute and ban from medicine any physician associates or similar who overstep their responsibilities.
I find this whole thing baffling… I am an 8a sonographer. I scan people and find out what is possibly wrong with them but I and most of my other colleagues practice very defensively. That means when I write my diagnostic reports I put the evidence of what I’ve seen and what that may possibly indicate using terms such as “suggestive of”. It then is up to a doctor as to whether more imaging is required (we can suggest that) or what the next line of action is. Some of us can perform biopsies but obvious histology is done in the labs. I have a masters degree. I don’t get how on earth PA’s who have a postgraduate diploma as do many sonographers, get away with giving definite diagnosis. We are always running to radiologists if we see something we are not familiar with or if it’s something that can have a significant differential diagnosis.
Did nobody teach these PAs about litigation and ethics??
We should really go back to calling them ‘assistants’, not ‘associates’. This gaslighting by PAs has already done enough harm by confusing the patients.
I don’t get how PAs with comparatively little training are coming in starting at band 7. It’s another NHS sponsored joke.
As they don’t have a registrative body I think they aren’t taught the fear of answering to them like the HCPC/NMC. They are the big scary dietys that we have to answer to and made to fear as students in respective fields, they are overlords we are answerable to.
In that we cannot take a job with the same title without a registration, PAs can jump from job to job without answering about an absence of a reg number.
On their course they are spoon fed common things but not the subtle intricacies that give experienced ANP/AHP ETC the gut feeling to get an adult ( Dr or specialty) to review it ( like referring to a radiologist as you said).
They are partly victims of the poor training and academia but also should have the personal reflection to understand the impact of f@cking it up…. Like most professions get with years of placement and supervised experience.
Pertinent negatives are tattooed in to the decision making on recognised courses I think.
I’ve met one or too excellent PAs but most were terrifying in the lazy attitude and super hero personas.
Physician associates are the biggest clowns going and more of these will absolutely crumble the NHS. If ever offered one refuse
This is the final beatdown of the NHS. Drive away the skilled workers and replace them with under qualified people that are cheaper to employ. Pretty soon if you want a real doctor or nurse you’ll have to pay or have insurance. The free healthcare will be run by people like this.
The number of doctors trained used to be “throttled” do as to ensure higher quality candidates were successfully engaged. This was the bma.
10 comments
The answer to this stupidity is to train a lot more doctors and pay junior doctors better. And also to prosecute and ban from medicine any physician associates or similar who overstep their responsibilities.
I find this whole thing baffling… I am an 8a sonographer. I scan people and find out what is possibly wrong with them but I and most of my other colleagues practice very defensively. That means when I write my diagnostic reports I put the evidence of what I’ve seen and what that may possibly indicate using terms such as “suggestive of”. It then is up to a doctor as to whether more imaging is required (we can suggest that) or what the next line of action is. Some of us can perform biopsies but obvious histology is done in the labs. I have a masters degree. I don’t get how on earth PA’s who have a postgraduate diploma as do many sonographers, get away with giving definite diagnosis. We are always running to radiologists if we see something we are not familiar with or if it’s something that can have a significant differential diagnosis.
Did nobody teach these PAs about litigation and ethics??
We should really go back to calling them ‘assistants’, not ‘associates’. This gaslighting by PAs has already done enough harm by confusing the patients.
I don’t get how PAs with comparatively little training are coming in starting at band 7. It’s another NHS sponsored joke.
As they don’t have a registrative body I think they aren’t taught the fear of answering to them like the HCPC/NMC. They are the big scary dietys that we have to answer to and made to fear as students in respective fields, they are overlords we are answerable to.
In that we cannot take a job with the same title without a registration, PAs can jump from job to job without answering about an absence of a reg number.
On their course they are spoon fed common things but not the subtle intricacies that give experienced ANP/AHP ETC the gut feeling to get an adult ( Dr or specialty) to review it ( like referring to a radiologist as you said).
They are partly victims of the poor training and academia but also should have the personal reflection to understand the impact of f@cking it up…. Like most professions get with years of placement and supervised experience.
Pertinent negatives are tattooed in to the decision making on recognised courses I think.
I’ve met one or too excellent PAs but most were terrifying in the lazy attitude and super hero personas.
Physician associates are the biggest clowns going and more of these will absolutely crumble the NHS. If ever offered one refuse
Really glad to see the BMA not mincing their words or trying to salve any hurt feelings here. The guidance is strong, and it’s definitely what patients want (particularly, don’t pretend you’re a doctor when you’re not): [https://www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre/bma-sets-out-first-national-guidance-for-the-role-and-responsibilities-of-physician-associates-in-major-intervention-for-patient-safety](https://www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre/bma-sets-out-first-national-guidance-for-the-role-and-responsibilities-of-physician-associates-in-major-intervention-for-patient-safety)
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This is the final beatdown of the NHS. Drive away the skilled workers and replace them with under qualified people that are cheaper to employ. Pretty soon if you want a real doctor or nurse you’ll have to pay or have insurance. The free healthcare will be run by people like this.
The number of doctors trained used to be “throttled” do as to ensure higher quality candidates were successfully engaged. This was the bma.