France is building an alliance of countries open to potentially sending Western troops to Ukraine — and in the process deepening its clash with a more cautious Berlin.
French Foreign Minister Stéphane Séjourné was in Lithuania on Friday, where he met his Baltic and Ukrainian counterparts to buttress the idea that foreign troops could end up helping Ukraine in areas like demining.
“It is not for Russia to tell us how we should help Ukraine in the coming months or years,” Séjourné said at a meeting chaired by Lithuanian Foreign Minister Gabrielius Landsbergis and attended by his Ukrainian counterpart, Dmytro Kuleba. **”It is not for Russia to organize how we deploy our actions, or to set red lines. So we decide it among us.”**
Although Germany is by far the largest European military aid donor to Ukraine, it has come under fierce pressure for its reluctance to send Kyiv long range Taurus cruise missiles for fear of provoking Moscow. Kuleba took a subtle swipe at that reticence on Friday.
“I’m personally fed up with the … fear of escalation,” he said. “Our problem is that we still have people who think of this war in terms of the fear of escalation.”
Kuleba continued: **”What kind of escalation are you afraid of? What else has to happen to Ukraine for you to understand that this fear is useless? What do you expect Putin to do? ‘Well I sent tanks but I did not send the missiles or troops, so maybe you’ll be nicer to me than to others?’ That’s not how Putin thinks, that’s not how he treats Europe.”**
Chicken germany!
There isn’t a spat between France and Germany. It’s Macron making ridiculous comments that have no support within his own government. France isn’t going to send troops, and the Baltic states are essentially toothless.
More on this subject from other reputable sources:
It is not a spat with Germany.
It’s a spat with Scholz. He stands alone.
The Baltics lmao, the most toothless countries who hound the loudest.
Will be interesting to see troops from this alliance (France, Baltics and Poland) in Ukraine.
When are they going to arrive there and at which parts of the front will they fight?
I know many US Marines that are itching to get over there….
Germans don’t seem to understand that Russians only understand strength. The dithering, war-guilt ridden Germans only whet Putin’s appetite. Bravo for France
Let’s be honest about German politics/politicians, they’ve already let the cat out of the bag about troop deployment. Announcing uk troops already deployed, makes you wonder what else they’ve told they’re daddy poo tin
Spat over troop deployment? Lol. Politico. “Classy” as always.
NATO troop deployment isn’t even a thing right now. Of course Macron isn’t ruling it out — it’s never been something that was completely ruled out. NATO has already demonstrated that it can and does intervene in failed states or when another nation’s own defense has collapsed.
But Ukraine is not a failed state, and its defense remains robust. At present there is no reason why either NATO or Ukraine would want NATO to intervene. Doing so would take war decisions out of Ukraine’s hands and into NATO’s instead. No friend of Ukraine should be in any hurry to see that happen.
(The Kremlin on the other hand would love that so much. Actually having NATO to manipulate and point to as the cause of all its failures is Moscow’s fondest dream.)
Of course that could change. That is why NATO direct involvement not something that is “ruled out.” But that doesn’t mean that Macron or anyone else is in some kind of “troop deployment mode” and Germany disagrees.
That is just pure divisive Putin bullshit.
I am German.
Germans need to realize this: Which country added most money in Putins economy by depending on russian gas?
Even Trump warned us! But no. We chose russian gas agains all warnings. It is so embarrasing to say at least!
Time for us – the german citizens – to realise our special responsibility here.
If Scholz is the problem: Get rid of him. Do more protesting. Don’t hide behind Scholz.
I am tired of my fellow german citizens. They mean no harm. Germany still hasn’t found its soul after WW2. But we have this really awkward way when it comes to getting involed into wars after WW2. We are afraid of our own shadow.
When I hear germans talking about not donating 50 Taurus because of whatever excuse I think one thing:
Cowards!
Time to get over it and take the lead.
We still owe it.
Guy named De Gaulle, from rusty memory, joined the French Army in 1912. His boss was Captain Petain.
Petain gave him good service reports, said “smart guy, good leader, etc. ”
WW 1, 1914, DeGaulle gets wounded in combat, heals up, back in combat, wounded, heals up, back in combat , wounded, captured, escapes, caught, escapes, caught again, POW until war ends.
Gives lectures at military colleges, at invitation of also now-promoted Petain.
Degaulles lectures showed great foresight, he promoted what was later the blitzkrieg style of mechanized , fast, warfare. He tried to get France to increase modern airplane and mobile armour production.
Petain said, ” dude, we spent all this money on the Maginot line, defense is where it’s at ”
Degaulle said , ” no dude, we lost one third of our guys from Germany attacking from Belgium, there’s a big hole in your fence. Build more planes and tanks”
Degaule writes 4 military books.
French politicians are all ” Naw Degaule, we good, lookit our big Maginot line ”
Petain is appointed deputy leader under Renault ( I think ), Renault agrees with Degaulle, Germany attacks, walks through Belgium into France.
Degaulle is given 80 tanks, no fuel, no resupply, sent out to halt Germans. Does ok until runs out of fuel and ammo.
Petain then back stabs Renault, who wanted to keep fighting, regroup outside the country. Petain signs surrender with Germany, thinking the ass kicking would ease up ” if we negotiate “.
Degaulle is supported by Churchill, borrows his plane to go back to France, back to England organizes better french resistance, ……my point?
History rhymes, read about Degaulle.
Big surprise from Macron, good for him
Macron is doing the lords work by laying the foundation to deploy troops. This is what should have happened in February 2022, if not 2014. In what world is helping an ally an escalation? Russia did the literal same in Syria.
I think that just talking about troops on the ground is a clever move. So far scholtz in particular has hesitated with all decisions hoping the war would end by itself. By the time a decision was made it was to late to provide the expected advantage since the russians were given time to prepare and little time for reparation for ukraine. Equipment without training is not much use. Macron I think made this bold statement to show scholtz that he is weak for fearing escalation with taurus delivery.
What macrons say is, lets prepare and set the agenda on our own with our own aim, without asking if it is ok for putin . Preparing for troop deplyment does not mean troops will be deployed but they will be prepared if the decision is made a few years down the line. Scholtz fears putin will attack germany while he is chancellor but this risk will be even greater in 5-10 years if Russia manages to annex ukraine. So his position means germany accepts russia to set the rules of european freedoms or be attacked just like ukraine.
Europe needs to become proactive not reactive.
I was all for low military spending but now that war is real we have no choice but to accept.
France isn’t fucking around. Glad to see some of the European powers have balls afterall.
19 comments
France is building an alliance of countries open to potentially sending Western troops to Ukraine — and in the process deepening its clash with a more cautious Berlin.
French Foreign Minister Stéphane Séjourné was in Lithuania on Friday, where he met his Baltic and Ukrainian counterparts to buttress the idea that foreign troops could end up helping Ukraine in areas like demining.
“It is not for Russia to tell us how we should help Ukraine in the coming months or years,” Séjourné said at a meeting chaired by Lithuanian Foreign Minister Gabrielius Landsbergis and attended by his Ukrainian counterpart, Dmytro Kuleba. **”It is not for Russia to organize how we deploy our actions, or to set red lines. So we decide it among us.”**
Although Germany is by far the largest European military aid donor to Ukraine, it has come under fierce pressure for its reluctance to send Kyiv long range Taurus cruise missiles for fear of provoking Moscow. Kuleba took a subtle swipe at that reticence on Friday.
“I’m personally fed up with the … fear of escalation,” he said. “Our problem is that we still have people who think of this war in terms of the fear of escalation.”
Kuleba continued: **”What kind of escalation are you afraid of? What else has to happen to Ukraine for you to understand that this fear is useless? What do you expect Putin to do? ‘Well I sent tanks but I did not send the missiles or troops, so maybe you’ll be nicer to me than to others?’ That’s not how Putin thinks, that’s not how he treats Europe.”**
Chicken germany!
There isn’t a spat between France and Germany. It’s Macron making ridiculous comments that have no support within his own government. France isn’t going to send troops, and the Baltic states are essentially toothless.
More on this subject from other reputable sources:
—
– Associated Press (A-): [Sweden officially joins NATO, ending decades of post-World War II neutrality](https://apnews.com/article/sweden-nato-us-russia-ukraine-8372bc866c8ddcf42d2b8209fa5cd2b1)
– BBC Online (A-): [Sweden formally joins Nato military alliance](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68506223?at_bbc_team=editorial&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_campaign_type=owned&at_format=link&at_link_id=22416C02-DCA2-11EE-8330-858DD9B5F045&at_link_origin=BBCBreaking&at_link_type=web_link&at_medium=social&at_)
– Der Spiegel (A-): [Defense alliance: Sweden is now a member of NATO](https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/nato-schweden-ist-nun-offiziell-mitglied-a-0bd5b574-9984-4b6c-8480-3d1fc18ae814?amp;utm_medium=twitter)
– Washington Post (B): [Sweden finally joins NATO in expansion spurred by Putin’s Ukraine war ](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/07/sweden-joins-nato/)
—
[__Extended Summary__](https://www.reddit.com/r/newswall/comments/1b906oc/) | [FAQ & Grades](https://www.reddit.com/r/newswall/comments/uxgfm5/faq_newswall_bot/) | I’m a bot
[deleted]
It is not a spat with Germany.
It’s a spat with Scholz. He stands alone.
The Baltics lmao, the most toothless countries who hound the loudest.
Will be interesting to see troops from this alliance (France, Baltics and Poland) in Ukraine.
When are they going to arrive there and at which parts of the front will they fight?
I know many US Marines that are itching to get over there….
Germans don’t seem to understand that Russians only understand strength. The dithering, war-guilt ridden Germans only whet Putin’s appetite. Bravo for France
Let’s be honest about German politics/politicians, they’ve already let the cat out of the bag about troop deployment. Announcing uk troops already deployed, makes you wonder what else they’ve told they’re daddy poo tin
Spat over troop deployment? Lol. Politico. “Classy” as always.
NATO troop deployment isn’t even a thing right now. Of course Macron isn’t ruling it out — it’s never been something that was completely ruled out. NATO has already demonstrated that it can and does intervene in failed states or when another nation’s own defense has collapsed.
But Ukraine is not a failed state, and its defense remains robust. At present there is no reason why either NATO or Ukraine would want NATO to intervene. Doing so would take war decisions out of Ukraine’s hands and into NATO’s instead. No friend of Ukraine should be in any hurry to see that happen.
(The Kremlin on the other hand would love that so much. Actually having NATO to manipulate and point to as the cause of all its failures is Moscow’s fondest dream.)
Of course that could change. That is why NATO direct involvement not something that is “ruled out.” But that doesn’t mean that Macron or anyone else is in some kind of “troop deployment mode” and Germany disagrees.
That is just pure divisive Putin bullshit.
I am German.
Germans need to realize this: Which country added most money in Putins economy by depending on russian gas?
Even Trump warned us! But no. We chose russian gas agains all warnings. It is so embarrasing to say at least!
Time for us – the german citizens – to realise our special responsibility here.
If Scholz is the problem: Get rid of him. Do more protesting. Don’t hide behind Scholz.
I am tired of my fellow german citizens. They mean no harm. Germany still hasn’t found its soul after WW2. But we have this really awkward way when it comes to getting involed into wars after WW2. We are afraid of our own shadow.
When I hear germans talking about not donating 50 Taurus because of whatever excuse I think one thing:
Cowards!
Time to get over it and take the lead.
We still owe it.
Guy named De Gaulle, from rusty memory, joined the French Army in 1912. His boss was Captain Petain.
Petain gave him good service reports, said “smart guy, good leader, etc. ”
WW 1, 1914, DeGaulle gets wounded in combat, heals up, back in combat, wounded, heals up, back in combat , wounded, captured, escapes, caught, escapes, caught again, POW until war ends.
Gives lectures at military colleges, at invitation of also now-promoted Petain.
Degaulles lectures showed great foresight, he promoted what was later the blitzkrieg style of mechanized , fast, warfare. He tried to get France to increase modern airplane and mobile armour production.
Petain said, ” dude, we spent all this money on the Maginot line, defense is where it’s at ”
Degaulle said , ” no dude, we lost one third of our guys from Germany attacking from Belgium, there’s a big hole in your fence. Build more planes and tanks”
Degaule writes 4 military books.
French politicians are all ” Naw Degaule, we good, lookit our big Maginot line ”
Petain is appointed deputy leader under Renault ( I think ), Renault agrees with Degaulle, Germany attacks, walks through Belgium into France.
Degaulle is given 80 tanks, no fuel, no resupply, sent out to halt Germans. Does ok until runs out of fuel and ammo.
Petain then back stabs Renault, who wanted to keep fighting, regroup outside the country. Petain signs surrender with Germany, thinking the ass kicking would ease up ” if we negotiate “.
Degaulle is supported by Churchill, borrows his plane to go back to France, back to England organizes better french resistance, ……my point?
History rhymes, read about Degaulle.
Big surprise from Macron, good for him
Macron is doing the lords work by laying the foundation to deploy troops. This is what should have happened in February 2022, if not 2014. In what world is helping an ally an escalation? Russia did the literal same in Syria.
I think that just talking about troops on the ground is a clever move. So far scholtz in particular has hesitated with all decisions hoping the war would end by itself. By the time a decision was made it was to late to provide the expected advantage since the russians were given time to prepare and little time for reparation for ukraine. Equipment without training is not much use. Macron I think made this bold statement to show scholtz that he is weak for fearing escalation with taurus delivery.
What macrons say is, lets prepare and set the agenda on our own with our own aim, without asking if it is ok for putin . Preparing for troop deplyment does not mean troops will be deployed but they will be prepared if the decision is made a few years down the line. Scholtz fears putin will attack germany while he is chancellor but this risk will be even greater in 5-10 years if Russia manages to annex ukraine. So his position means germany accepts russia to set the rules of european freedoms or be attacked just like ukraine.
Europe needs to become proactive not reactive.
I was all for low military spending but now that war is real we have no choice but to accept.
France isn’t fucking around. Glad to see some of the European powers have balls afterall.