Always be wary of anyone telling you what a referendum indicates. Referendum outcomes are decided by individuals voting for different reasons and a majority of people entitled to vote chose not to indicate anything at all.
If you frame the vote as being the result of a lack of trust, you can’t really limit that to the government parties.
All the major parties advocated a Yes/Yes vote and struggled to convince their supporters. And as per the exit poll posted here earlier, the main opposition party failed in that regard even more than the government did.
Has there been any indication that voters trust the government in recent memory?
We are reaping the whirlwind of decades of spin, managed focus groups, secretive policy formation out of public view, client media, the invention of “civil society” groups to deliver govt policy designed by a cabal, the reduction of public representatives to lobby fodder and imaginary fixers.
A former Minister for Justice and Attorney General said a govt department was perverting democracy in the recent referendums. Yes, read that again. Former Govt TDs and ministers shout about the concentration of power in small cliques around the leader.
We have a sly creeping authoritarianism from Govt and it does it by pointing to all the “groups” who “represent” the people. We’re in a crisis of democracy.
What blows my mind is the opinion polling showed a high percentage in favour of yes/yes.
Those segments they asked must have been around south Dublin alone.
To my knowledge they have previously been some-what accurate or in and around the actual result of referendums and elections. Never to be expected to be exact but this time around they were so far off the mark. Completely off the mark, it wasn’t even close.
It gives me caution now to trust opinion polls in this country, either they need to improve their process, their segments and survey a wider net around the country.
Edit: yeah lads I know how opinion polls work. Some comments here are silly.
The new wording was ambiguous. That is all. Anything written into the constitution must be crystal clear.
I’m not really surprised that our media is tightly aligned with Dún Laoghaire–Rathdown
The care referendum really wasnt a surprise.
You can talk about the vague language in the family one all day, fair enough, but the government wanted us to put the ball in their court to decide what “care” is. Leo came right out and said it isn’t their responsibility so no way was the public going to give him the go ahead to gut support
But all the parties are saying the people DO trust them, it’s all very confusing /s
The people have spoken
Me: Ireland needs a party that speaks for the common man
Friend: What party would that be?
Me: I dont know…
Many who voted yes to repeal the 8th, voted no on this one. I hate the way right wingers are chalking this up as their victory, but it’s the government’s fault for tabling a poorly worded amendment.
( I voted yes/no)
Well whatever about not understanding the carer change, I can’t understand how any woman in Ireland of voting age didn’t get out to change antiquated language defining a woman’s role in the home in the constitution. The government is certainly to blame, but such low voter turnout needs to have some personal accountability factored in.
The politicians families and the media families are all married in.
The opinion polls match Dun Laoighaire Rathdown because that’s where they all live.
They have cushy jobs doing opinion polls. They ist poll their friends, or nobody atall. No accountability. Even the minister for justice won’t walk down a street on North side of the liffey without a garda escort, nobodies getting their kids cushy jobs and then sending them to Ballyer to do an opinion poll.
I work all over Ireland, mostly Dublin but pretty much anywhere with a supermarket or government type building I can be called to and everyday I’m in a few of them. Everybody is pissed off. If the opinion poll isn’t showing everybody as pissed off it was done in Dun Laoighaire Rathdown or in the office of the Irish Times/Independant for the benefit of some vulture funds who want to make sure the political landscape is stable befire they buy something up. You don’t want to be in business with a TD if he won’t be in power in a few weeks. You need stable men who’s seats are secure.
Before you buy up an apartment complex that you plan to rent for 2500 a unit, you need to check the fellas in charge who you are friendly with won’t cut the HAP or build too many more apartment blocks. That’s why they don’t want political instability.
It means the topic of the referendum was bullshit. It should never have gone to a referendum. Everyone looking for reasons like ireland skewing right or the government etc is just avoiding that central, simple truth: the stuff that occupies the chattering classes,
Roderick OConnor and Irish Times journalists doesn’t interest most people
Why would we? Our political class and media constantly say ‘black is white’ or ‘white is black’, they tell you your wealthier, better off than your parents, grandparents etc… but we all know we’re not.
The systems are creaking at the seams, and the world is burning while an aloof literati point out our differences and proclaim us far-right or far-left, divide us in order to control us, while many are too busy and tired to see how are young people are being manipulated and lied to as social media corrupts and leads them to ruin; and if you think I’m talking about you and what you believe being the ruin, then they’ve already got you.
Yes/Yes felt wrong, not because people didn’t want to improve the language of the constitution, but because the language they chose felt wrong, off, a devils bargain, we were being cheated out of something but we weren’t sure how or what.
No, our level of trust is exactly where it should be, non-existent because that’s all they deserve.
A protest vote for a referendum but you watch, they won’t protest vote this government out in the general election which is when it matters.
Roderic O Gorman will lose his seat at the next election which will be nice.
21 comments
…or the media (hint hint, Irish Times)
Always be wary of anyone telling you what a referendum indicates. Referendum outcomes are decided by individuals voting for different reasons and a majority of people entitled to vote chose not to indicate anything at all.
If you frame the vote as being the result of a lack of trust, you can’t really limit that to the government parties.
All the major parties advocated a Yes/Yes vote and struggled to convince their supporters. And as per the exit poll posted here earlier, the main opposition party failed in that regard even more than the government did.
Has there been any indication that voters trust the government in recent memory?
We are reaping the whirlwind of decades of spin, managed focus groups, secretive policy formation out of public view, client media, the invention of “civil society” groups to deliver govt policy designed by a cabal, the reduction of public representatives to lobby fodder and imaginary fixers.
A former Minister for Justice and Attorney General said a govt department was perverting democracy in the recent referendums. Yes, read that again. Former Govt TDs and ministers shout about the concentration of power in small cliques around the leader.
We have a sly creeping authoritarianism from Govt and it does it by pointing to all the “groups” who “represent” the people. We’re in a crisis of democracy.
What blows my mind is the opinion polling showed a high percentage in favour of yes/yes.
Those segments they asked must have been around south Dublin alone.
To my knowledge they have previously been some-what accurate or in and around the actual result of referendums and elections. Never to be expected to be exact but this time around they were so far off the mark. Completely off the mark, it wasn’t even close.
It gives me caution now to trust opinion polls in this country, either they need to improve their process, their segments and survey a wider net around the country.
Edit: yeah lads I know how opinion polls work. Some comments here are silly.
The new wording was ambiguous. That is all. Anything written into the constitution must be crystal clear.
I’m not really surprised that our media is tightly aligned with Dún Laoghaire–Rathdown
The care referendum really wasnt a surprise.
You can talk about the vague language in the family one all day, fair enough, but the government wanted us to put the ball in their court to decide what “care” is. Leo came right out and said it isn’t their responsibility so no way was the public going to give him the go ahead to gut support
But all the parties are saying the people DO trust them, it’s all very confusing /s
The people have spoken
Me: Ireland needs a party that speaks for the common man
Friend: What party would that be?
Me: I dont know…
Many who voted yes to repeal the 8th, voted no on this one. I hate the way right wingers are chalking this up as their victory, but it’s the government’s fault for tabling a poorly worded amendment.
( I voted yes/no)
Well whatever about not understanding the carer change, I can’t understand how any woman in Ireland of voting age didn’t get out to change antiquated language defining a woman’s role in the home in the constitution. The government is certainly to blame, but such low voter turnout needs to have some personal accountability factored in.
The politicians families and the media families are all married in.
The opinion polls match Dun Laoighaire Rathdown because that’s where they all live.
They have cushy jobs doing opinion polls. They ist poll their friends, or nobody atall. No accountability. Even the minister for justice won’t walk down a street on North side of the liffey without a garda escort, nobodies getting their kids cushy jobs and then sending them to Ballyer to do an opinion poll.
I work all over Ireland, mostly Dublin but pretty much anywhere with a supermarket or government type building I can be called to and everyday I’m in a few of them. Everybody is pissed off. If the opinion poll isn’t showing everybody as pissed off it was done in Dun Laoighaire Rathdown or in the office of the Irish Times/Independant for the benefit of some vulture funds who want to make sure the political landscape is stable befire they buy something up. You don’t want to be in business with a TD if he won’t be in power in a few weeks. You need stable men who’s seats are secure.
Before you buy up an apartment complex that you plan to rent for 2500 a unit, you need to check the fellas in charge who you are friendly with won’t cut the HAP or build too many more apartment blocks. That’s why they don’t want political instability.
It means the topic of the referendum was bullshit. It should never have gone to a referendum. Everyone looking for reasons like ireland skewing right or the government etc is just avoiding that central, simple truth: the stuff that occupies the chattering classes,
Roderick OConnor and Irish Times journalists doesn’t interest most people
Why would we? Our political class and media constantly say ‘black is white’ or ‘white is black’, they tell you your wealthier, better off than your parents, grandparents etc… but we all know we’re not.
The systems are creaking at the seams, and the world is burning while an aloof literati point out our differences and proclaim us far-right or far-left, divide us in order to control us, while many are too busy and tired to see how are young people are being manipulated and lied to as social media corrupts and leads them to ruin; and if you think I’m talking about you and what you believe being the ruin, then they’ve already got you.
Yes/Yes felt wrong, not because people didn’t want to improve the language of the constitution, but because the language they chose felt wrong, off, a devils bargain, we were being cheated out of something but we weren’t sure how or what.
No, our level of trust is exactly where it should be, non-existent because that’s all they deserve.
A protest vote for a referendum but you watch, they won’t protest vote this government out in the general election which is when it matters.
Roderic O Gorman will lose his seat at the next election which will be nice.
No sh1t Sherlock