Sorry but what is the difference between the Tory policy and Labour policy on trans issues now?
Like usual people don’t have the ability to read, good job everyone.
Don’t worry, I’m sure as soon as Labour get power they’ll reveal they actually were all in favour of trans people! Just gotta wait until they get power and…yeah…I’m sure they will…
The Pink News has become The Daily Mail of its demographic.
The Western world is in a very unserious place when it spends all its energy on low stakes culture war nonsense. Really fall of Rome type stuff we are slowly living through since probably 2008.
What a weird interpretation to get from Starmer stating sports regulatory bodies should decide on how to regulate their respective sports.
As someone who is absolutely pro trans.. I am very much in support of this.
It’s just obvious and frankly people’s dreams are being ripped away from them after decades of blood sweat and tears.
Personally I absolutely believe there should be a 3rd group for trans athletes or a point system based on biological factors …kind of like how the paralympics is done.
It’s so cruel to allow someone who has been a pro athlete as a man transition and dominate women’s sport as a result of the obvious disadvantage.
> “I think the important thing is that the sports governing bodies take a lead on this. And they are doing that, and we’re supportive of what they’re doing, particularly in elite sport. So, that’s where the decision should be taken. They’ve taken a number of decisions. And, in the end, common sense has to prevail in terms of safety and integrity of sport.”
So not just backing where sports have chosen to exclude trans women, but also backing where sports have chosen to include trans women.
He’s backing sports governing bodies to make the right decisions. I’m struggling to understand the controversy.
We are like the experiment ‘Rat Utopia’ and we are approaching the end of the experiment.
I am very much pro trans… And think this demographic is treated extremely unfairly.
However I agree that we shouldn’t allow trans people in competitive sports. I think this is how a lot of trans people feel either … Or are not fussed in the slightest with either decision… and just want to get on with their lives and be left alone. At least the ones I’ve spoken to (Im the G in LGBT).
The first step IMO is to ask why we segregate sports at all. It’s because of differences in physical capabilities as a result of sex. We could remove that segregation, but the reality is that a lot of sports would end up as vast majority – if not exclusively – male at the elite level. I think most would agree that that would be a problem
So if we agree that binary segregation is necessary, then surely it is reasonable to question how a trans person should fit into that model
Personally I’m perfectly fine with someone identifying as another gender, without having to go through any sort of surgery or procedure
But should that person then be allowed to compete in women’s sport because their title changed from “Mr” to “Miss”?
Maybe? The biological differences that make segregation necessary haven’t been addressed, but if we consider and accept them as a woman – does that matter? Because the person who wins is still a woman, if we follow that logic
Would non-trans women be happy with this?
Procedures to help people transition aren’t a perfect solution either, as they can’t completely remove some of the innate advantages – e.g. height, bone structure, bone density, testosterone etc. Some of the advantages can be addressed and mitigated, but currently there’s no perfect procedure to completely remove them
There isn’t a simple answer here. I’m not going to pretend I know what the solution is, but I wish the conversation wasn’t simplified to such an insane degree by people on both extremes
I don’t inherently disagree with separation of trans athletes in contact sports in particular (honestly, it’s an issue I don’t have enough factual info about, I just don’t want anybody at physical risk) but I really dislike politician’s and news outlets obsessing over these (relatively) incredibly small issues while people are freezing in their homes that they’re about to be thrown out of, and can’t feed themselves, while the rest of the world descends into war and violence.
It should likely depend on the individual trans person and their history in my view. If someone had puberty blockers and then HRT, they’re going to be well within the standard deviation of cis athletes.
If testing shows the individual to have mechanical benefits outside the cis range, act based on that, not simply trans status.
The chess ruling is a joke, let’s be honest.
Keir’s comments on gender choice at 16 seems to be misguided. Gender identity tends to set in for the most part well before five, not 16, and calling it a “choice” suggests it’s far more easy to conclude and seek out than it is. He also didn’t seem to have any problem understanding Brianna Ghey was a girl at 16, and nor does any reasonable moral person, only twisted ghouls.
Starmer continues to swallow the TERF line along with their donation money.
Just remove gendered sport competitions entirely. Let’s see how the TERFs like that.
This issue really isn’t worth more than a few hours of debate before everyone should reach the exact same logical conclusion, rules are adjusted and we move onto the next thing.
Far too many people making a big deal out of this.
*Change men’s sports to Men/Open.*
Done.
And we can all move on with our goddamn lives.
Common sense isn’t always right but most of the time it does prevail.
People with ‘mixed’ physiologies (as if the notion of a gender binary has ever actually worked) are obviously likely to be better at sport in some cases – like Caster Semenya – and definitely deserve that right to representation because that’s more important in humanistic terms.
Until we get to that point, yeah.
Common sense is probably going to prevail, and if we want to get there we need a more compassionate, reason-based society that Labour are more likely to facilitate than the other lot.
I am hardly surprised. Starmer’s Labour isn’t especially open-minded and is still a neoliberal edifice not far removed from the Conservatives. I’d really rather not vote for them, but I’m going to have to hold my nose and do so. Anyone else and I’m just voting the Tories in again.
Sports aside, I figure recognition and validation of trans people must be *slightly* better under a Labour government, as hopefully will healthcare. It’s a Mazlow’s Hierarchy of Needs thing: with stuff like the Ghey murder and the system itself being stacked against them, I’m more worried about their *protection* before arguments about inclusion in competitive sports.
But, also, what do I know, I’m just a hairy heffalump ‘cisgender’ bloke. All I know for certain is that I know nothing.
Labour seems ungrateful for their polling results. Really trying hard not to be votable.
Could we have a more reliable news source report on what exactly Keir Starmer has done?
Thank god some in standing up for what’s right and we will no longer have the massive imbalance of testosterone in the……..chess championships /s
How about giving us some hope rather than indulging in Tory culture war bs.
Why is he even needing to wade into this? What are his advisors and focus information telling him?
Just seems like a needless way to allow re-ignition of culture shite and I would guess most just want to hear policy and proposals about what they intend to do to uplift peoples lives.
Gotta feel for a tiny demographic who’s lives have become a political football.
If sex and gender are as unrelated as some people would have us believe, we just need to make it clear that sports are segregated based on the former. How can they argue against their own logic?
24 comments
Sorry but what is the difference between the Tory policy and Labour policy on trans issues now?
Like usual people don’t have the ability to read, good job everyone.
Don’t worry, I’m sure as soon as Labour get power they’ll reveal they actually were all in favour of trans people! Just gotta wait until they get power and…yeah…I’m sure they will…
The Pink News has become The Daily Mail of its demographic.
The Western world is in a very unserious place when it spends all its energy on low stakes culture war nonsense. Really fall of Rome type stuff we are slowly living through since probably 2008.
What a weird interpretation to get from Starmer stating sports regulatory bodies should decide on how to regulate their respective sports.
As someone who is absolutely pro trans.. I am very much in support of this.
It’s just obvious and frankly people’s dreams are being ripped away from them after decades of blood sweat and tears.
Personally I absolutely believe there should be a 3rd group for trans athletes or a point system based on biological factors …kind of like how the paralympics is done.
It’s so cruel to allow someone who has been a pro athlete as a man transition and dominate women’s sport as a result of the obvious disadvantage.
> “I think the important thing is that the sports governing bodies take a lead on this. And they are doing that, and we’re supportive of what they’re doing, particularly in elite sport. So, that’s where the decision should be taken. They’ve taken a number of decisions. And, in the end, common sense has to prevail in terms of safety and integrity of sport.”
So not just backing where sports have chosen to exclude trans women, but also backing where sports have chosen to include trans women.
He’s backing sports governing bodies to make the right decisions. I’m struggling to understand the controversy.
We are like the experiment ‘Rat Utopia’ and we are approaching the end of the experiment.
I am very much pro trans… And think this demographic is treated extremely unfairly.
However I agree that we shouldn’t allow trans people in competitive sports. I think this is how a lot of trans people feel either … Or are not fussed in the slightest with either decision… and just want to get on with their lives and be left alone. At least the ones I’ve spoken to (Im the G in LGBT).
The first step IMO is to ask why we segregate sports at all. It’s because of differences in physical capabilities as a result of sex. We could remove that segregation, but the reality is that a lot of sports would end up as vast majority – if not exclusively – male at the elite level. I think most would agree that that would be a problem
So if we agree that binary segregation is necessary, then surely it is reasonable to question how a trans person should fit into that model
Personally I’m perfectly fine with someone identifying as another gender, without having to go through any sort of surgery or procedure
But should that person then be allowed to compete in women’s sport because their title changed from “Mr” to “Miss”?
Maybe? The biological differences that make segregation necessary haven’t been addressed, but if we consider and accept them as a woman – does that matter? Because the person who wins is still a woman, if we follow that logic
Would non-trans women be happy with this?
Procedures to help people transition aren’t a perfect solution either, as they can’t completely remove some of the innate advantages – e.g. height, bone structure, bone density, testosterone etc. Some of the advantages can be addressed and mitigated, but currently there’s no perfect procedure to completely remove them
There isn’t a simple answer here. I’m not going to pretend I know what the solution is, but I wish the conversation wasn’t simplified to such an insane degree by people on both extremes
I don’t inherently disagree with separation of trans athletes in contact sports in particular (honestly, it’s an issue I don’t have enough factual info about, I just don’t want anybody at physical risk) but I really dislike politician’s and news outlets obsessing over these (relatively) incredibly small issues while people are freezing in their homes that they’re about to be thrown out of, and can’t feed themselves, while the rest of the world descends into war and violence.
It should likely depend on the individual trans person and their history in my view. If someone had puberty blockers and then HRT, they’re going to be well within the standard deviation of cis athletes.
If testing shows the individual to have mechanical benefits outside the cis range, act based on that, not simply trans status.
The chess ruling is a joke, let’s be honest.
Keir’s comments on gender choice at 16 seems to be misguided. Gender identity tends to set in for the most part well before five, not 16, and calling it a “choice” suggests it’s far more easy to conclude and seek out than it is. He also didn’t seem to have any problem understanding Brianna Ghey was a girl at 16, and nor does any reasonable moral person, only twisted ghouls.
Starmer continues to swallow the TERF line along with their donation money.
Just remove gendered sport competitions entirely. Let’s see how the TERFs like that.
This issue really isn’t worth more than a few hours of debate before everyone should reach the exact same logical conclusion, rules are adjusted and we move onto the next thing.
Far too many people making a big deal out of this.
*Change men’s sports to Men/Open.*
Done.
And we can all move on with our goddamn lives.
Common sense isn’t always right but most of the time it does prevail.
People with ‘mixed’ physiologies (as if the notion of a gender binary has ever actually worked) are obviously likely to be better at sport in some cases – like Caster Semenya – and definitely deserve that right to representation because that’s more important in humanistic terms.
Until we get to that point, yeah.
Common sense is probably going to prevail, and if we want to get there we need a more compassionate, reason-based society that Labour are more likely to facilitate than the other lot.
I am hardly surprised. Starmer’s Labour isn’t especially open-minded and is still a neoliberal edifice not far removed from the Conservatives. I’d really rather not vote for them, but I’m going to have to hold my nose and do so. Anyone else and I’m just voting the Tories in again.
Sports aside, I figure recognition and validation of trans people must be *slightly* better under a Labour government, as hopefully will healthcare. It’s a Mazlow’s Hierarchy of Needs thing: with stuff like the Ghey murder and the system itself being stacked against them, I’m more worried about their *protection* before arguments about inclusion in competitive sports.
But, also, what do I know, I’m just a hairy heffalump ‘cisgender’ bloke. All I know for certain is that I know nothing.
Labour seems ungrateful for their polling results. Really trying hard not to be votable.
Could we have a more reliable news source report on what exactly Keir Starmer has done?
Thank god some in standing up for what’s right and we will no longer have the massive imbalance of testosterone in the……..chess championships /s
How about giving us some hope rather than indulging in Tory culture war bs.
Why is he even needing to wade into this? What are his advisors and focus information telling him?
Just seems like a needless way to allow re-ignition of culture shite and I would guess most just want to hear policy and proposals about what they intend to do to uplift peoples lives.
Gotta feel for a tiny demographic who’s lives have become a political football.
If sex and gender are as unrelated as some people would have us believe, we just need to make it clear that sports are segregated based on the former. How can they argue against their own logic?