People may say racist things but that doesn’t make them racists, minister says in storm over Tory donor’s remarks
by tylerthe-theatre
People may say racist things but that doesn’t make them racists, minister says in storm over Tory donor’s remarks
by tylerthe-theatre
29 comments
“If you say racist things and don’t apologise for them that makes you racist but if you say something racist and then apologise that’s a different thing I think.”
Let’s apply this logic everywhere else. If you rape someone but apologise you’re not a rapist. If you fondle small children but apologise you’re not a pedophile. If you kill someone but apologise you’re not a murderer.
“If we hold people to account based on silly things like their words and actions then… umm… where was I going with this?”
It must be weird knowing your party is about to be obliterated so badly the only thing worth saving is the donor base.
I could see the argument if it was just one comment. This guy seems to have form, though. At a certain stage, it is just who you are.
When you have so much money and power nobody has ever told you to stfd and stfu.
They’ve tied themselves so much to the culture war narrative they they’re petrified of doing anything seen as “woke” and sending people off to reform aren’t they?
“We all come across people at times who say racist things but are not racist”
I don’t, but then I’m not a member of the Tory party.
Am I going mad!!!? The issue shouldn’t be what he said, and the definition of racism. It should be that he donated £10 million, and received £400 mil in government contracts to his company over 8 years. Why is this not the issue? Instead we’re just debating the ethics of his joke.
Basically “I’m not racist, but…” or “Some of my friends are black” is what many Tories are like.
He hasn’t apologised for being racist
He’s apologised for being “rude”
classic example of the world bending to the will of rich people.
Hester said that Diane Abbott makes him want to hate all black women.
Then he said that she needs to be shot.
Then, just in case anyone thought he meant that figuratively rather than literally, he made it very clear that it wouldn’t be good enough if she and another women were just sacked rather than being murdered – “It’s not as good as her dying. It would be much better if she died. She’s consuming resource. She’s eating food that other people could eat. You know?”
I’d be pretty confident in saying that anyone who can hear those words and deny that he’s an extremist and a racist is an extremist and a racist themself.
Clearly what he said relating to her race is unacceptable, but I don’t see much made of the the fact that he also said she should be shot.
Given that MPs have expressed concern about increased numbers of threats made against them I’d have expected to hear more about this too.
I do think there are two fairly distinct groups of racist, and one is far worse than the other even if both are worthy of condemnation.
Group 1, the casual racists, might make racist jokes and the like but they don’t wish actual harm on people of different races, and don’t consciously treat them differently. Racially insensitive would be a good way to describe them.
Group 2, the bona fides, actively and consciously wish harm on the races they have problems with. We’re talking the neo nazis, KKK, “let’s find a black to kick the shit out of “-minded et al.
Again, to be clear, neither group is to be exonerated, but the first group is probably far more “saveable” than the second. Being charitable, I suspect that’s what Hollinrake is trying to say here.
Given how much hate mail and threats MPs get generally and significantly more so if they are a woman, I wonder what the average woman Tory mp or wanna be MP makes of the response to this?
Are we holding donors to high moral standards now? They cant even make jokes? Before you pearl clutchers say “its not a joke” try to realize people have different senses of humor, its fine if thats not for you but its not that weird to say someone “should be shot”.
This is as boring of a news story as the edited Kate photos. It must be a really slow news week.
Wonder their reaction if someone said something antisemitic
Imagine waking up and deciding that defending racists being racist is a good way to spend your day.
Well this is a bit of a bollocks intepretation.
in some instances people can use the wrong language and that language can appear racists as terminology changes.
But this is not about terminology this is about having a racist attitude, which is not a language thing. he also condoned violence. The guy is a massive cunt.
He only apologised because he got caught out, not because he’s actually changed and is ashamed. So yeah, he’s a racist.
> If you say racist things and don’t apologise for them that makes you racist but if you say something racist and then apologise that’s a different thing I think.
So if I say something, even something libel, and appoligise for it, it doesn’t really count and im ok?
Like I can say Kevin Hollinrake has a serious gambling problem, whos had Tory donnors bailing him out, and is a russian spy, but as long as I say sorry for it, then I never really meant it.
Sorry.
I had this conversation in the pub with a drunk guy. Apparently everyone is a bit racist, that doesn’t make them racist.
Every week, sometimes every day this party stoops lower and lower, and in true Tory style rather than doing what is best for the country : call a general election and let a new government steady this sinking ship (if it’s even possible) they prolong the agony of the country and its inhabitants, purely so they can continue their grift and asset stripping until the last possible moment. Fuck these assholes.
It’s certainly possible to say racist things without any racist intent, in which case an apology will typically be accepted. This wasn’t that.
It’s the difference between me accidentally stepping on your foot and apologising, versus me jumping up and down on your foot screaming about how much I hate feet, then apologising.
In that scenario it would also be pretty silly for anyone to assert I don’t have any kind of hang-up about feet.
Ministers regularly spout shite but that doesn’t make them liars.. . /s
Tories twisting themselves into a pretzel trying to defend racism all because the guy donated millions to their party, and I’m not surprised
Surely ‘says or does racist things’ would be one of the very first indicators that someone is a racist…
>“We all come across people at times who say racist things but are not racist.”
Call me old fashioned but I think the people who don’t say racist things are the ones that are not racist.
In the racism/sexism tier list, person x’s behaviour makes me want to hate everyone who shares their skin colour and sex is pretty high up there. That’s before you get to the murder part.
Just because he’s already got the pro quo doesn’t mean you can’t give the quid back.