Is there a concrete and mandatory obligation as it stands?
And they expected us to vote for something wish-washy? lmao
Can the No side please shut up about it? Nothing worse than a sore winner.
Who would have imagined that was what was intended? Who would see the word “strive” and read all the propaganda from govt mouthpieces across media,
Third level, NGOs and decide that what was intended was to “avoid a concrete and mandatory obligation”?
Two thirds of the Irish people. That’s who.
They really do think we are stupid don’t they.
From the article:
Ministers had insisted there were no taxation or immigration implications. But files showed officials grappling with tax issues and legal advice that said greater weight would be given to non-marital family rights “in childcare, immigration and social welfare”.
The files showed officials saying measures such as those presented in the family referendum could create uncertainty because of the role foreseen for judges.
Officials referred in favourable terms to early plans – dropped by the Government in the referendum proposal – for the Oireachtas to retain the power to define the new concept of family in law.
Literally selling us a bill of goods.
Why did they not release this before the referendum?
It’s literally why it failed, people were voting on a guarantee of absolutely nothing.
A terrible Varadkar effort to give government a boost before the local elections, but they care so little they couldn’t even give the public something tangible to vote on.
Surely someone in FG should have the stones to challenge his leadership, he consistently achieves nothing but failure.
Funny, a yes vote would seemingly have been better for immigration control
Anyone who has ever had to deal with a family member who is in need of additional services know that wording matters.
All talk about what will be done ect is just talk and it can and will be used to weasel out of obligations.
Thats why it lost.
I am the very definition of a ‘middle Ireland’ person. I’m married, I’m a homeowner and I have a fairly decent income, and every day I am thankful for those things, and I realise that my reality is a pipe dream for so many people.
I, and people like me, are the kind of people who vote for the established parties, that’s just the way it is, people who are comfortable want to keep the status quo.
I voted green last time, but I will never never give them the sniff of a vote again for a number of reasons, but particularly because they pushed through the carbon taxes in the middle of a cost of living crisis with contempt for poorer people.
At the start of this referendum campaign I wasn’t that bothered, but was always going to vote no to both. But when I read about how genuinely treacherous the government parties seem to have been about this, I am really really angry.
And I am also scared, because I know that a lot of people like me, who were always ‘steady as she goes’, will be looking for alternatives to vote for, and that could be very dangerous. We are very foolish to think that we are immune to some of the nastier forces coming to the forefront in Europe and beyond.
Such a shambles. Unless a referendum is run with better wording some time soon, we’ll never know if people were voting against any change, or that change specifically…
The only upside is that I can feel that people are talking more about care and people with disabilities and the supports associated with them. With insanely high levels of disability unemployment (due to the many, many systemic barriers people with disabilities face here), and generally terrible supports, we as a society need to do so much more to support care.
Which is precisely against what the Citizens Assembly agreed upon, if you find their report from 2020-2021 it shows for the family and care amendments 71% of the Citizens’ had voted for STRONGER State obligation to support family and carers, you can find it in the section where they held votes in whether there should be a referendum
The blame lies squarely on the government for selecting this wording and ignoring the Citizens’ – the entire reason that the Citizens exist is as a weathervane for public sentiment, and by going against them you basically guarantee something like a landslide defeat.
Of course FF/FG/Coalition want to run from this; they’re to blame.
The government was elected by a majority of the people, they are supposed to be for the people. If the people wanted a concrete and mandatory obligation, that is what should have been put forward.
This is why referendums, and a constitution are key parts to a democracy.
To all the people that were arguing with me that “strive” is a stronger word than “endeavor”, FU
These boys are just tooling around in the constitution. They have no pride, no vision, no policy skills.
17 comments
Is there a concrete and mandatory obligation as it stands?
And they expected us to vote for something wish-washy? lmao
Can the No side please shut up about it? Nothing worse than a sore winner.
Who would have imagined that was what was intended? Who would see the word “strive” and read all the propaganda from govt mouthpieces across media,
Third level, NGOs and decide that what was intended was to “avoid a concrete and mandatory obligation”?
Two thirds of the Irish people. That’s who.
They really do think we are stupid don’t they.
From the article:
Ministers had insisted there were no taxation or immigration implications. But files showed officials grappling with tax issues and legal advice that said greater weight would be given to non-marital family rights “in childcare, immigration and social welfare”.
The files showed officials saying measures such as those presented in the family referendum could create uncertainty because of the role foreseen for judges.
Officials referred in favourable terms to early plans – dropped by the Government in the referendum proposal – for the Oireachtas to retain the power to define the new concept of family in law.
Literally selling us a bill of goods.
Why did they not release this before the referendum?
It’s literally why it failed, people were voting on a guarantee of absolutely nothing.
A terrible Varadkar effort to give government a boost before the local elections, but they care so little they couldn’t even give the public something tangible to vote on.
Surely someone in FG should have the stones to challenge his leadership, he consistently achieves nothing but failure.
Funny, a yes vote would seemingly have been better for immigration control
Anyone who has ever had to deal with a family member who is in need of additional services know that wording matters.
All talk about what will be done ect is just talk and it can and will be used to weasel out of obligations.
Thats why it lost.
I am the very definition of a ‘middle Ireland’ person. I’m married, I’m a homeowner and I have a fairly decent income, and every day I am thankful for those things, and I realise that my reality is a pipe dream for so many people.
I, and people like me, are the kind of people who vote for the established parties, that’s just the way it is, people who are comfortable want to keep the status quo.
I voted green last time, but I will never never give them the sniff of a vote again for a number of reasons, but particularly because they pushed through the carbon taxes in the middle of a cost of living crisis with contempt for poorer people.
At the start of this referendum campaign I wasn’t that bothered, but was always going to vote no to both. But when I read about how genuinely treacherous the government parties seem to have been about this, I am really really angry.
And I am also scared, because I know that a lot of people like me, who were always ‘steady as she goes’, will be looking for alternatives to vote for, and that could be very dangerous. We are very foolish to think that we are immune to some of the nastier forces coming to the forefront in Europe and beyond.
Such a shambles. Unless a referendum is run with better wording some time soon, we’ll never know if people were voting against any change, or that change specifically…
The only upside is that I can feel that people are talking more about care and people with disabilities and the supports associated with them. With insanely high levels of disability unemployment (due to the many, many systemic barriers people with disabilities face here), and generally terrible supports, we as a society need to do so much more to support care.
Which is precisely against what the Citizens Assembly agreed upon, if you find their report from 2020-2021 it shows for the family and care amendments 71% of the Citizens’ had voted for STRONGER State obligation to support family and carers, you can find it in the section where they held votes in whether there should be a referendum
The blame lies squarely on the government for selecting this wording and ignoring the Citizens’ – the entire reason that the Citizens exist is as a weathervane for public sentiment, and by going against them you basically guarantee something like a landslide defeat.
Of course FF/FG/Coalition want to run from this; they’re to blame.
The government was elected by a majority of the people, they are supposed to be for the people. If the people wanted a concrete and mandatory obligation, that is what should have been put forward.
This is why referendums, and a constitution are key parts to a democracy.
To all the people that were arguing with me that “strive” is a stronger word than “endeavor”, FU
These boys are just tooling around in the constitution. They have no pride, no vision, no policy skills.