Germany is blocking NATO ally Estonia from giving military support to Ukraine by refusing to issue permits for German-origin weapons to be exported to Kyiv
Germany is blocking NATO ally Estonia from giving military support to Ukraine by refusing to issue permits for German-origin weapons to be exported to Kyiv
32 comments
Genuinely astounding. Actively preventing other NATO members from helping Ukraine.
I just hope what Germany’s been doing in these past few months will not be forgotten. They are showing their true colours, and we should keep this in mind going forward.
Even if you post this a third time, the headline will still be misleading. The process is __not finished__,
I quote the [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/s9hx1c/germany_blocks_nato_ally_from_transferring/htmudiz?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) from u/l_eo_
>Misleading headline.
>It has simply not been decided yet.
>Directly in the article:
>German officials said the impasse results from a longstanding policy regarding arms exports to tense regions.
>“The principle governing arms exports is always the same—whether they come directly from Germany or from third countries—and no permission has been issued at this stage,” a German government spokesman said.
>“It is not possible to estimate the outcome of the process at this moment,” he added.
>An Estonian government official said that his government is still trying to persuade Germany to change its mind.
>“Hopefully we will get the approval from Germany,” Kristo Enn Vaga, adviser to the Estonian defense minister said. “Estonia has shown that we want to help Ukraine in practical terms in any way we can.”
>Edit:
>As an addition:
>It’s standard practise that such exports have to be allowed by the producers of such weapons.
>The US also needed to give its okay to the delivery of their weapons to Ukraine:
>https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-allows-baltic-states-to-send-arms-to-ukraine-11642705956
>This logic would mean that you would have had to be furious with them as well before they made their decision.
**Misleading headline.**
—
It has simply not been decided yet.
Directly in the article:
>German officials said the impasse results from a longstanding policy regarding arms exports to tense regions.
>
>“The principle governing arms exports is always the same—whether they come directly from Germany or from third countries—and no permission has been issued at this stage,” a German government spokesman said.
>
>“**It is not possible to estimate the outcome of the process at this moment**,” he added.
>
>An Estonian government official said that his government is still trying to persuade Germany to change its mind.
>
>“**Hopefully we will get the approval from Germany**,” Kristo Enn Vaga, adviser to the Estonian defense minister said. “Estonia has shown that we want to help Ukraine in practical terms in any way we can.”
—
As an addition:
It’s standard practise that such exports have to be allowed by the producers of such weapons.
The US also needed to give its okay to the delivery of their weapons to Ukraine:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-allows-baltic-states-to-send-arms-to-ukraine-11642705956
This logic would mean that you would have had to be furious with them as well before they made their decision.
—
**Edit:**
It seems that the article gets edited as we speak. It just doubled in size, but the passages mentioned above are still there.
—
**Edit2:**
**Both Finland and Germany need to approve that delivery.**
Does anybody have any information whether that already happened on the Finnish side?
—
**Edit3:**
This article has been changed a lot in the last hours.
It started as barely half a page and a lot has been added.
It now seems to suggest much stronger than before, that there has been a process, Germany has declined, and that now Estonia tries to appeal the decision:
>In the case of Estonia, a small country on Russia’s northern border, Berlin is also **refusing** to allow a third country to send artillery to Ukraine because the weaponry originated in Germany, according to Estonian and German officials.
>
>[…]
>
>An Estonian government official said that his government is still trying to persuade Germany **to change its mind**.
>
>[…]
>
>While the Estonian weapons wouldn’t change the dynamics on the battlefield, Germany’s **refusal** could be read by Moscow as another sign of division in the West’s ranks.
There doesn’t seem to be any other source for this than this article.
German newspapers have started to pick up the story, all refer to this specific article as their basis.
I am sure that we will have more clarity soon as officials will be compelled to reply.
—
**Edit4:**
All Estonian articles I was able to find also refer to this article:
https://www.ohtuleht.ee/1053940/saksamaa-keelab-eestil-saksa-paritolu-relvi-ukrainasse-saata
https://www.delfi.ee/artikkel/95703601/wall-street-journal-saksamaa-keelab-eestil-saata-saksa-paritolu-relvi-ukrainasse
If you know of any sources that confirm that Germany declined the initial request without referring to the WSJ article or an article that refers to the WSJ article, please let us know (no matter in which language).
—
**Edit5:**
I found an official German government statement from yesterday. It was made in the [Bundespressekonferenz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundespressekonferenz), a format that is meant to address questions like this.
**Link:**
https://youtu.be/h9q91BDCcPM?t=1501
(At minute 25)
**German transcript:**
>**Journalist:**
>
>Leider auch noch mal zum Stichwort Waffenlieferungen. Es gab, auch wenn schon ein paar Tage her ist, Aussagen aus dem Baltikum, ich meine aus Estland, dass die geplante Lieferung von Waffen aus diesen baltischen Ländern an die Ukraine deswegen hängen, weil für Komponenten oder Systeme eine deutsche Zustimmung erforderlich sein. Hat jemand einen Überblick, ob und wie viele solcher Verfahren noch ja quasi hängen oder ausstehen, wo keine entsprechende Bewilligung / Entscheidung getroffen wurde.
>
>**Sprecher BMVg (Bundesministerium der Verteidigung):**
>
>Ja, [die Frage ist] vielleicht in Teilen an mich. Also ich habe keinen Überblick über Systeme. Was ich ihnen aber Bestätigen kann, ist dass es eine Anfrage der estnischen Regierung gegeben hat mit Blick auf die Lieferung von / Weitergabe von Haubitzen und zu dem Thema befinden wir uns im moment in der Ressortabstimmung und auch die Abstimmung mit Finnland ist dazu geplant.
>
>**Journalist:**
>
>Zusatz: Nun ist diese Abstimmung… gibt es so einen Zeitrahmen, weil es läuft glaube ich schon etliche Wochen, diese Anfrage.
>
>**Sprecher BMVg (Bundesministerium der Verteidigung):**
>
>Also einen konkreten Zeitrahmen kann ich ihnen nicht nennen. Wie gesagt, wir stimmen das Ressort gemeinsam ab und ich kann im Moment auch nicht darüber spekulieren, welchen Inhalt oder wie der Ausgang dieses Verfahrens sein wird. Aber ich kann ihnen eben sagen, dass es eingegangen ist und dass es bei uns in der Ressortabstimmung ist.
>
—
**English translation:**
>**Journalist:**
>
>Unfortunately, once again on the subject of arms deliveries.There were, even if a few days ago, statements from the Baltic States, I mean from Estonia, that the planned delivery of weapons from these Baltic countries to Ukraine is hanging because German approval is required for components or systems. Does anyone have an overview of whether and how many such procedures are still, yes, quasi hanging or pending, where no corresponding approval / decision has been made?
>
>**Spokesman BMVg (Federal Ministry of Defense):**
>
>Yes, [the question is] maybe in parts to me. So I don’t have an overview of systems. But what I can confirm to you is that there has been a request from the Estonian government with regard to the delivery of / transfer of howitzers and on this topic we are currently in the departmental coordination and also the coordination with Finland is planned.
>
>**Journalist:**
>
>Addendum: Now this coordination is…Is there a time frame, because I think it’s been going on for several weeks, this inquiry.
>
>**Spokesman BMVg (Federal Ministry of Defense):**
>
>Well, I can’t give you a specific time frame. As I said, we are coordinating the department together and at the moment I can’t speculate on what the content or the outcome of this procedure will be. But I can tell you that it has been received and that we are currently coordinating it.
who said: “the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact”?
This is one of times I am ashamed to be German.
How to fuck up future weapon sales 101
Class in session.
Absolutely pathetic. The top comment it stupid, they don’t need to “deny” permits for transfers, they’re just refusing to issue them as the clock runs down. Exact same result.
​
I have yet to hear single a reasoned justification for this behavior by a German, beyond the specious “peace through neutrality”.
​
Fuckin idiots.
Shit, buying German weapons was a massive mistake. If, God forbid, we ever need to use them, Germany will decline to supply spare parts and ammo according to their policy. Hopefully German arms manufacturers will be automatically disqualified in future acquisitions.
There is no official statement on this, though. Even Estonian media only refers to WSJ article.
You’ve got to give them credit for being consistent. Since the founding of the German nation, one has always been able to count on the Germans to be on the wrong side of every foreign policy issue.
As George Orwell states- “pacifism is ultimately pro-fascist” (or in this case pro-Russian authoritarianism )
What the fuck Germany…
Seems like Russia got Germany by the balls.
Dear Estonia, beware you don’t accidentally lose those guns, and keep them behind locks so that they’re not stolen. Krhm.
Come on now, let’s not be fighting each other. Our main target is to piss off Russia.
Major donor to Ukraine. Multiple programs to improve economic development through investment and loans. For multiple years largest donor of humanitarian aid to Ukraine. Responsible for nearly a quarter of all ODA originating from the EU.
Or if you want to look at it from a political level – Merkel heavily opposing the proposed re-invitation of Russia into the G8 by Trump (remember that famous foto?), the Normandy format, being the leading force behind the EU sanctions on Russia after Crimea and sticking to these sanctions even though there is immense pressure from German businesses to end them, …
Yet you don’t want to sell weapons to the country, so obviously Germany is in league with Putin and must be an enemy… What a nice binary world view.
Damn Germany is really a pain the ass recently with all of these nuclear power plant closings and now this.
“Maybe it is time for Germans (and others) to work out that if you are “anti-war”, you should help Ukraine deter Russia. Refusal to do so is, in practice, “pro-war.” It increases the chance of invasion.”
mmm anyone else ‘surprised’ by the many (misleading) anti-german articles posted here lately?
Am I misunderstanding the meaning or is the title phrased weirdly? Estonia is not a NATO *ally*, Estonia is a NATO **member**. Sorry, English is not my first language.
Putin is laughing. Thanks Germany!
I wish it was that simple to fool Putin to think Europe is split about the conflict in Ukraine. Nice try.
Time to wake up to what Russia actually can turn the key to start, it had the US might still.
I wonder if the Ukraine conflict is the actual topic or people rather go full blown Germany bashing these days. It’s fucking stupid to be honest.
You’d think the Germans more than anyone would know appeasement doesn’t work.
Germany wants that Russian gas
Based Germany
I don’t understand why this is labelled misleading. It isn’t. Germany doesn’t want to do anything that could anger Russia, including sending German-made weapons to Ukraine.
[Germany’s military seems to have some very dumb positions when it comes to Russia](https://twitter.com/tanvi_madan/status/1484642943499649026?t=mUUbX_wkDodXisVOGA6PaQ&s=19)
watching so many people here blatantly fall for missinformation that is obviously planted by russian bots to sow discord is just sad. yea, right, germany is blocking them because they want russia to invade ukraine. you people are aware that one of the three parties of our new government is extremely anti-russia and pro-nato, right?
the talk is about Soviet produced 122mm D-30 artillery howitzers……..which were made in USSR, sold to East Germany, then sold to Finland, and then gifted by Finns to Estonia in 2000’s. And now Estonia wants to give them to Ukraine
The fact that modern day Germany has a say in weapons that came from East Germany during Cold war and haven’t been under their jurisdiction for the last 30 years kind of makes no sense to me
Putin’s 5th column. Schröder sold Germany to the Russians and Merkel’s disastrous energy policy made sure they stayed like that.