Last month, Trump was ordered by Judge Arthur Engoron to pay the fine in a judgment that said he inflated the value of his assets and properties on financial statements to banks and insurers while trying to get loans and make deals. The former president and his two eldest sons, Eric Trump and Donald Trump Jr., were also barred from conducting business in New York for two to three years.
Trump Park Avenue, New York, N.Y.
Trump Tower, New York, N.Y.
40 Wall Street, New York, N.Y.
Seven Springs, Westchester County, N.Y.
Trump International Hotel and Tower, Las Vegas, Nevada
Mar-a-Lago, Palm Beach, Florida
Trump National Golf Club Westchester, Briarcliff Manor, N.Y.
Trump National Golf Club Charlotte, Mooresville, North Carolina
Trump National Golf Club Colts Neck, Colts Neck, New Jersey
Trump National Golf Club, Washington, D.C., Sterling, Virginia
Trump National Golf Club Hudson Valley, Hopewell Junction, N.Y.
Trump National Golf Club Jupiter, Jupiter, Florida
Trump National Golf Club Los Angeles, Rancho Palos Verdes, California
Trump National Golf Club Philadelphia, Pine Hill, New Jersey
Trump International Golf Links Scotland (Aberdeen)
Trump International Golf Links Scotland (Turnberry)
Collect ’em all, James!
For anyone who thinks that this is a “political hit job” because the banks didn’t rely on Trump’s fraudulent financial statements, or “no harm was done,” or any of the other absurd defenses that Trump is trying to sell you, here’s Engoron’s ruling:
(1) Witnesses testified that the banks did rely on Trump’s fraudulent claims.
(2) Witnesses testified that if they had had an accurate picture of Trump’s financial state, he would not have gotten the highly favorable interest rates that he got. If Trump had filed accurate statements he would have had to pay much, much more interest (if they would have given the loans at all).
(3) The penalty was calculated based on that, and the details are all spelled out in the ruling. He defrauded the banks out of the higher interest he would have had to pay in order to get the loans. “No harm was done” is plainly false.
(4) The “no harm was done” defense is so insanely dumb that Trump’s lawyers didn’t even attempt it in court. (But see the update below for a related “nobody complained” defense.)
Think about how little sense it makes. If you embezzle a million dollars Friday just before the banks close, fly to vegas and bet it all on red at the roulette wheel, and win, and return the million dollars plus interest on Monday as soon as the banks open, would you expect a “no one got hurt” defense to get you acquitted when you go to trial?
—–
Edited to add quotes from the ruling:
(1) For example, p. 9:
> In deciding to approve the credit facility, Haigh **relied on Donald Trump’s 2011 SFC and
assumed that the representations of value of the assets and liabilities were “broadly accurate.”**
TT 1009-1010; PX 330. The Deutsche Bank Credit Report’s “Financial Analysis” is based on
numbers provided by the “family office” (here, the Trump Organization) and contains the same
numbers represented in the SFC. PX 293; TT 1010-1013.
And p. 68:
> The evidence adduced at trial makes clear that **Deutsche Bank relied on the SFCs** for the
information to underwrite, approve, and maintain the credit facilities on Doral, Trump Chicago,
and the Old Post Office. PX 293, PX 3041 at ¶¶ 452-54, 456-466, 476.
And more. And on p. 75 it discusses how absurd this defense was:
> Defendants have argued vociferously throughout the trial that there can be no fraud as, they
assert, that none of the banks or insurance companies relied on any of the alleged
misrepresentations. **The proponents of this theory posit that lenders demand complex statements
of financial condition but then ignore them.**
And (next paragraph) it wouldn’t make any difference as a matter of law:
> Defendants’ argument is to no avail, as none of plaintiff’s causes of action requires that it
demonstrate reliance. Instead, plaintiff must merely show that defendants intended to commit
the fraud. **Reliance is not a requisite element** of either Executive Law § 63(12) or of any of the
alleged Penal Law violations.
And (next paragraph) even though it wasn’t a requisite element, the claim made by the defense is clearly false:
> However, the Court notes that, although not required, **there is ample documentary and
testimonial evidence that the banks, insurance companies, and the City of New York did, in fact,
rely on defendants to be truthful and accurate in their financial submissions.** The testimony in
this case makes abundantly clear that most, if not all, loans began life based on numbers on an
SFC, which the lenders interpreted in their own unique way. The testimony confirmed, rather
than refuted, the overriding importance of SFCs in lending decisions.
(2) p. 68:
> The record is also clear that Donald Trump **would not have received the credit facilities from the
Private Wealth Management Division, and the favorable interest rates that came with that,** had he
not executed an unconditional, “ironclad,” personal guarantee. Moreover, **the Private Wealth
Management Division was willing to accept the personal guarantees based upon false SFCs.**
(3) Here’s part of the “disgorgement of ill-gotten gains” calculation, from p. 86:
> McCarty calculated the differences between interest rates and determined the following ill-gotten
interest savings, which this Court hereby adopts as the most reasonable approximation of the ill-
gotten interest rate savings upon which evidence was presented at trial: (1) $72,908,308 from
2014-2022 on the Doral loan; (2) $53,423,209 from 2015-2022 on the Old Post Office loan; (3)
$17,443,359 from 2014-2022 on the Chicago loan; and (4) $24,265,291 from 2015-2022 on the
40 Wall Street loan.
> **In total, defendants’ fraud saved them approximately $168,040,168 in interest,** which shall be
imposed, jointly and severally, among Donald Trump and the defendant entities that he owns and
controls, as the misconduct at issue was committed by the Trump Organization’s top
management.
And there’s more of course. Using fraud to save $168 million is very clearly not “no harm done.” The fraud caused the banks to take on more risk than they were willing to take on at the favorable interest rates Trump used the fraud to get.
(4) p. 75ff discusses the defenses asserted, and “no harm was done” isn’t in there. Given that the penalty is directly calculated based on the actual harm done (the much higher interest payments that the banks would have gotten if they’d had accurate data, if they would have given the loans at all), it’s no surprise that his lawyers wouldn’t have wanted to stand up in front of the judge and argue something so plainly untrue.
Trump of course can make that claim at rallies and on TS, where, unlike the courtroom, lying has no legal consequences.
UPDATE: MathKnight points out that in an earlier ruling (09/26/2023) Engoron notes that the defense did argue that the banks didn’t raise any complaints. That’s not quite the same thing as “no harm was done.” It could be that the banks didn’t know they were defrauded (until this trial of course). Or maybe they had some other reason for not suing Trump for the hundreds of millions of dollars in interest that they would have been entitled to. It might be relevant that Trump still owes Deutsche Bank a *lot* of money. I don’t know, but this is at least related to the “no harm done” defense.
In the document below see p. 7 at the bottom for the judge acknowledging that the defense raised the “no complaints” argument, and top of p. 8 for why that defense is (spoiler alert!) thoroughly bogus.
I want to see this man penniless in the fucking gutter for what he did to my family. I have no pity or sympathy for him and I will make a trip to dance on that motherfucker’s grave when he’s dead.
Take em all… Make him decide to buy avocado toast or to pay rent
According to the article this is a list of the properties he valued fraudulently.
It’s Newsweek’s editorial assumption that these are the targets for seizure. It’s a salacious headline but Letitia James hasn’t released a list of the properties she will seek.
This is why I don’t trust Newsweek.
I went to trump Hotel in Vegas, to be nosey when I was at a conference nearby.
It’s as shitty as you imagine it to be. Just felt cheap and tacky. Fake gold tat.
It’s actually the State of New York doing the seizing. Letitia James is just doing her job.
Will be interesting to see if any of them even have any equity.
Too bad all the prayer warriors died from covid. Trump needs you more than ever.
The only thing I hear when I read this title is Ace Ventura saying “Yummy”
If you don’t have ~$460 million, then you’re not a billionaire.
Can’t wait to see if Trump gets evicted from his own home. I imagine that his little MAGA army will try to show up to protest like their half-assed “support” when his home was raided for classified docs. Saddest showing of support ever.
They’re all leveraged. The world is about to find out the chump is a house of cards.
Will tumble fast…
So, what are the chances they go to seize these properties, find out they’re all cross-collateralized on multiple loans, and charge him with a whole new bundle of fraud?
There should be a ruling in this case restricting Trump from getting money from foreign sources. It just means that a foreign entity will have leverage on him.
See if he got Turnberry seized from him, i would personally be so happy.
Years ago, my dad gifted me a painting one of his friends did of the 18th green there. Apparently in the 80s, and long before Trump bought it, my dad and his pals managed to get a tee time there and played a round while his artsy friend who didn’t play golf just sat at the 18th green and painted, much to the chagrin of golfers and staff. He’d move when asked, but then mosey back when he could.
It’s a lovely painting and has been sitting face up on top of the fridge since around 2017 when I got sick of people realizing I had a painting of a Trump course up and took it off the wall.
I’d love to return the painting to its former glory. Turnberry used to be one of Scotland’s most proud courses, but since that arsehole bought it in 2014 it’s went into disarray.
MAGA = My Assets Got Auctioned
Take Mar-a-lago first. It’s not registered as a single family home, instead it’s deeded as a private club. You wouldn’t technically be taking his home. He is listed as an employee of the club which allows him to stay there.
He should just sell his Trump Tower penthouse with has square footage of 8 million miles and is worth at least $2.6 gazillion…
Trump, long before he got into politics, was infamous for declaring bankruptcy, primarily to get out of paying contractor4 and sub-contractors for work they did on his properties. Everyone of his casino businesses went through bankruptcy courts and he had to turn management of them over to a holding company to get out of payments.
He has bragged during interviews and even during one of his debates on how he scammed the IRS with property values “in accordance with their rules”.
His narcissism will have him blaming everyone in the world, but he did the crimes – now he pays the dimes – and that’s a lot of dimes.
28 comments
Trump Park Avenue, New York, N.Y.
Trump Tower, New York, N.Y.
40 Wall Street, New York, N.Y.
Seven Springs, Westchester County, N.Y.
Trump International Hotel and Tower, Las Vegas, Nevada
Mar-a-Lago, Palm Beach, Florida
Trump National Golf Club Westchester, Briarcliff Manor, N.Y.
Trump National Golf Club Charlotte, Mooresville, North Carolina
Trump National Golf Club Colts Neck, Colts Neck, New Jersey
Trump National Golf Club, Washington, D.C., Sterling, Virginia
Trump National Golf Club Hudson Valley, Hopewell Junction, N.Y.
Trump National Golf Club Jupiter, Jupiter, Florida
Trump National Golf Club Los Angeles, Rancho Palos Verdes, California
Trump National Golf Club Philadelphia, Pine Hill, New Jersey
Trump International Golf Links Scotland (Aberdeen)
Trump International Golf Links Scotland (Turnberry)
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/06/donald-trump-loans-deutsche-bank/
Call ’em in boys
Last month, Trump was ordered by Judge Arthur Engoron to pay the fine in a judgment that said he inflated the value of his assets and properties on financial statements to banks and insurers while trying to get loans and make deals. The former president and his two eldest sons, Eric Trump and Donald Trump Jr., were also barred from conducting business in New York for two to three years.
Trump Park Avenue, New York, N.Y.
Trump Tower, New York, N.Y.
40 Wall Street, New York, N.Y.
Seven Springs, Westchester County, N.Y.
Trump International Hotel and Tower, Las Vegas, Nevada
Mar-a-Lago, Palm Beach, Florida
Trump National Golf Club Westchester, Briarcliff Manor, N.Y.
Trump National Golf Club Charlotte, Mooresville, North Carolina
Trump National Golf Club Colts Neck, Colts Neck, New Jersey
Trump National Golf Club, Washington, D.C., Sterling, Virginia
Trump National Golf Club Hudson Valley, Hopewell Junction, N.Y.
Trump National Golf Club Jupiter, Jupiter, Florida
Trump National Golf Club Los Angeles, Rancho Palos Verdes, California
Trump National Golf Club Philadelphia, Pine Hill, New Jersey
Trump International Golf Links Scotland (Aberdeen)
Trump International Golf Links Scotland (Turnberry)
Collect ’em all, James!
For anyone who thinks that this is a “political hit job” because the banks didn’t rely on Trump’s fraudulent financial statements, or “no harm was done,” or any of the other absurd defenses that Trump is trying to sell you, here’s Engoron’s ruling:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/documents/f203be39-020c-4f82-a423-96aa20c08e3a.pdf?itid=lk_inline_manual_3
(1) Witnesses testified that the banks did rely on Trump’s fraudulent claims.
(2) Witnesses testified that if they had had an accurate picture of Trump’s financial state, he would not have gotten the highly favorable interest rates that he got. If Trump had filed accurate statements he would have had to pay much, much more interest (if they would have given the loans at all).
(3) The penalty was calculated based on that, and the details are all spelled out in the ruling. He defrauded the banks out of the higher interest he would have had to pay in order to get the loans. “No harm was done” is plainly false.
(4) The “no harm was done” defense is so insanely dumb that Trump’s lawyers didn’t even attempt it in court. (But see the update below for a related “nobody complained” defense.)
Think about how little sense it makes. If you embezzle a million dollars Friday just before the banks close, fly to vegas and bet it all on red at the roulette wheel, and win, and return the million dollars plus interest on Monday as soon as the banks open, would you expect a “no one got hurt” defense to get you acquitted when you go to trial?
—–
Edited to add quotes from the ruling:
(1) For example, p. 9:
> In deciding to approve the credit facility, Haigh **relied on Donald Trump’s 2011 SFC and
assumed that the representations of value of the assets and liabilities were “broadly accurate.”**
TT 1009-1010; PX 330. The Deutsche Bank Credit Report’s “Financial Analysis” is based on
numbers provided by the “family office” (here, the Trump Organization) and contains the same
numbers represented in the SFC. PX 293; TT 1010-1013.
And p. 68:
> The evidence adduced at trial makes clear that **Deutsche Bank relied on the SFCs** for the
information to underwrite, approve, and maintain the credit facilities on Doral, Trump Chicago,
and the Old Post Office. PX 293, PX 3041 at ¶¶ 452-54, 456-466, 476.
And more. And on p. 75 it discusses how absurd this defense was:
> Defendants have argued vociferously throughout the trial that there can be no fraud as, they
assert, that none of the banks or insurance companies relied on any of the alleged
misrepresentations. **The proponents of this theory posit that lenders demand complex statements
of financial condition but then ignore them.**
And (next paragraph) it wouldn’t make any difference as a matter of law:
> Defendants’ argument is to no avail, as none of plaintiff’s causes of action requires that it
demonstrate reliance. Instead, plaintiff must merely show that defendants intended to commit
the fraud. **Reliance is not a requisite element** of either Executive Law § 63(12) or of any of the
alleged Penal Law violations.
And (next paragraph) even though it wasn’t a requisite element, the claim made by the defense is clearly false:
> However, the Court notes that, although not required, **there is ample documentary and
testimonial evidence that the banks, insurance companies, and the City of New York did, in fact,
rely on defendants to be truthful and accurate in their financial submissions.** The testimony in
this case makes abundantly clear that most, if not all, loans began life based on numbers on an
SFC, which the lenders interpreted in their own unique way. The testimony confirmed, rather
than refuted, the overriding importance of SFCs in lending decisions.
(2) p. 68:
> The record is also clear that Donald Trump **would not have received the credit facilities from the
Private Wealth Management Division, and the favorable interest rates that came with that,** had he
not executed an unconditional, “ironclad,” personal guarantee. Moreover, **the Private Wealth
Management Division was willing to accept the personal guarantees based upon false SFCs.**
(3) Here’s part of the “disgorgement of ill-gotten gains” calculation, from p. 86:
> McCarty calculated the differences between interest rates and determined the following ill-gotten
interest savings, which this Court hereby adopts as the most reasonable approximation of the ill-
gotten interest rate savings upon which evidence was presented at trial: (1) $72,908,308 from
2014-2022 on the Doral loan; (2) $53,423,209 from 2015-2022 on the Old Post Office loan; (3)
$17,443,359 from 2014-2022 on the Chicago loan; and (4) $24,265,291 from 2015-2022 on the
40 Wall Street loan.
> **In total, defendants’ fraud saved them approximately $168,040,168 in interest,** which shall be
imposed, jointly and severally, among Donald Trump and the defendant entities that he owns and
controls, as the misconduct at issue was committed by the Trump Organization’s top
management.
And there’s more of course. Using fraud to save $168 million is very clearly not “no harm done.” The fraud caused the banks to take on more risk than they were willing to take on at the favorable interest rates Trump used the fraud to get.
(4) p. 75ff discusses the defenses asserted, and “no harm was done” isn’t in there. Given that the penalty is directly calculated based on the actual harm done (the much higher interest payments that the banks would have gotten if they’d had accurate data, if they would have given the loans at all), it’s no surprise that his lawyers wouldn’t have wanted to stand up in front of the judge and argue something so plainly untrue.
Trump of course can make that claim at rallies and on TS, where, unlike the courtroom, lying has no legal consequences.
UPDATE: MathKnight points out that in an earlier ruling (09/26/2023) Engoron notes that the defense did argue that the banks didn’t raise any complaints. That’s not quite the same thing as “no harm was done.” It could be that the banks didn’t know they were defrauded (until this trial of course). Or maybe they had some other reason for not suing Trump for the hundreds of millions of dollars in interest that they would have been entitled to. It might be relevant that Trump still owes Deutsche Bank a *lot* of money. I don’t know, but this is at least related to the “no harm done” defense.
In the document below see p. 7 at the bottom for the judge acknowledging that the defense raised the “no complaints” argument, and top of p. 8 for why that defense is (spoiler alert!) thoroughly bogus.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23991865-trump-ny-fraud-ruling
Trump is a fake billionaire.
I want to see this man penniless in the fucking gutter for what he did to my family. I have no pity or sympathy for him and I will make a trip to dance on that motherfucker’s grave when he’s dead.
Take em all… Make him decide to buy avocado toast or to pay rent
According to the article this is a list of the properties he valued fraudulently.
It’s Newsweek’s editorial assumption that these are the targets for seizure. It’s a salacious headline but Letitia James hasn’t released a list of the properties she will seek.
This is why I don’t trust Newsweek.
I went to trump Hotel in Vegas, to be nosey when I was at a conference nearby.
It’s as shitty as you imagine it to be. Just felt cheap and tacky. Fake gold tat.
It’s actually the State of New York doing the seizing. Letitia James is just doing her job.
Will be interesting to see if any of them even have any equity.
Too bad all the prayer warriors died from covid. Trump needs you more than ever.
The only thing I hear when I read this title is Ace Ventura saying “Yummy”
If you don’t have ~$460 million, then you’re not a billionaire.
Womp womp: https://trumpdebtcounter.com/
I hope she takes Maralago first.
> Mar-a-Lago, Palm Beach, Florida
Can’t wait to see if Trump gets evicted from his own home. I imagine that his little MAGA army will try to show up to protest like their half-assed “support” when his home was raided for classified docs. Saddest showing of support ever.
The cherry on top that’s not being mentioned in his little hissy fit. [Trump claimed in deposition that he had $400 million in cash.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/02/28/trump-said-he-had-400-million-cash-now-his-lawyers-say-bond-is-struggle/). So, go ahead and toss perjury in with all his whining that it’s not fair for him to come up with the bond.
They’re all leveraged. The world is about to find out the chump is a house of cards.
Will tumble fast…
So, what are the chances they go to seize these properties, find out they’re all cross-collateralized on multiple loans, and charge him with a whole new bundle of fraud?
There should be a ruling in this case restricting Trump from getting money from foreign sources. It just means that a foreign entity will have leverage on him.
See if he got Turnberry seized from him, i would personally be so happy.
Years ago, my dad gifted me a painting one of his friends did of the 18th green there. Apparently in the 80s, and long before Trump bought it, my dad and his pals managed to get a tee time there and played a round while his artsy friend who didn’t play golf just sat at the 18th green and painted, much to the chagrin of golfers and staff. He’d move when asked, but then mosey back when he could.
It’s a lovely painting and has been sitting face up on top of the fridge since around 2017 when I got sick of people realizing I had a painting of a Trump course up and took it off the wall.
I’d love to return the painting to its former glory. Turnberry used to be one of Scotland’s most proud courses, but since that arsehole bought it in 2014 it’s went into disarray.
MAGA = My Assets Got Auctioned
Take Mar-a-lago first. It’s not registered as a single family home, instead it’s deeded as a private club. You wouldn’t technically be taking his home. He is listed as an employee of the club which allows him to stay there.
He should just sell his Trump Tower penthouse with has square footage of 8 million miles and is worth at least $2.6 gazillion…
Trump, long before he got into politics, was infamous for declaring bankruptcy, primarily to get out of paying contractor4 and sub-contractors for work they did on his properties. Everyone of his casino businesses went through bankruptcy courts and he had to turn management of them over to a holding company to get out of payments.
He has bragged during interviews and even during one of his debates on how he scammed the IRS with property values “in accordance with their rules”.
His narcissism will have him blaming everyone in the world, but he did the crimes – now he pays the dimes – and that’s a lot of dimes.
The Trump Org was once [sued for discriminating against black renters](https://www.npr.org/2016/09/29/495955920/donald-trump-plagued-by-decades-old-housing-discrimination-case). Wouldn’t it be perfect if New York turned his buildings into low-income housing for the same kinds of people he discriminated against?
Please take Mar-a-Lago, Please take Mar-a-Lago, Please take Mar-a-Lago…please please please
Then evict him
And then value it at only 18 million.
Trump’s brain will explode