*sigh….* there’s just so much wrong with that idea.
Heart in the right place, head isn’t
Why just women?
George Carlin “They ought to have two new requirements for being on the police; intelligence and decency!”
[deleted]
>“In any other profession, suspension would be the norm
Would it?
Watch me take down the entire nation’s police with one email.
How about guys? Like, guys don’t count? Do you think I enjoy being bullied by some uniformed lowlife?
What is so terribly hard about ensuring that accusations are sincerely and thoroughly investigated without just assuming guilt or innocence at the outset?
Accused? Convicted fair enough, but the accusation alone? Enough being silly.
This will have absolutely no negative implications whatsoever. It isn’t like there’s an anonymous way of making criminal complaints or that the police are involved in an area of work that leads to grudges forming or anything. Oh, and they don’t all have unique ID numbers so it’s easy to find out who they are, no nothing like that.
One sec, just going to report the copper who keeps parking outside of my house for beating up the wife I don’t have, that should be fun.
Violent towards men? No issue
Why am I not surprised
Great idea, but with full pay right ? Especially since it’s at an accusation stage and not proven or determined/disproven yet?
I understand the sentiment of it but I fear it being abused.
Hypothetical-but-serious question
What if an accusation of violence against women was made against every single police officer and staff? As in : individual claims against every individual person, not one claim that listed everyone.
Would they all be suspended?
What then?
What does the person who has made this proposal suggest next?
Focusing 90% of strategy around anticipating internet outrage has ruined every institution
As a police officer whoever has thought of this idea has the critical thinking skills of soggy bread.
I’ve had 3 malicious complaints during my time and I’m aware most people who don’t just sit in the office have had far more. Shock horror people hold grudges when you jail them for being scumbags.
I had a domestic case where I jailed this boy for battering his partner, right nasty cunt of a guy. Submitted the case, went to court, guy was remanded because luckily he’d fucked up this time and I had his phone with all the abusive messages and neighbours had heard him battering her and we got there with her blood still on his hands. As per usual she goes uncooperative but thankfully we had enough to still get him put away. His sentencing date is coming up and I get taken into the inspectors room and told I have a complaint from her that i had assaulted her when we arrested her partner. Long story short, she wanted him out the jail and thought making a malicious complaint that i had battered her instead of him would help.
We get malicious complaints all the time. If you want to suspend everyone who gets a complaint good fucking luck finding anyone left on the streets. There’s fuck all of us left as it is.
Oh goodness, what a daft idea. Does this charity know the first thing about police work or just *how many* criminals make vexatious accusations against police officers?
I do wish people would sometimes test their ideas against reality before putting them forward.
Just an accusation? One weird trick for the law to never catch up to you (woman only)!
Please read the article. This was a petition arranged by Refuge, the women’s charity… who helps women who are victims of domestic violence.
A petition for male victims can be arranged just as easily. If you make one please post to the sub I’ll happily sign.
Convicted yes, accused no. Innocent till proven guilty.
Yeah, this is fucking stupid.
If this was the case and it was applied to all walks of life, all it would take is one person to accuse someone they don’t like of something serious and then would be that.
Eventually you’d have people doing it to everyone they don’t like or because they think that person did the same to them.
This shit would be endless because people are horrible pieces of shut.
What if the women were generally violent towards the officers? What are they going to do play the innocent card cause they have tits? They want equality to men but they also want leeways given to them on a platter.
Lol accused? People don’t like the police anyway, can’t wait for the police to do their job and a woman to claim violence and suddenly you’ve lost your job.
I see people working in retail and hospitality all the time talking about how unreasonable, rude etc the public is. Would you be happy if they had the power to instantly have you sacked?
So we’re not including violence against anyone else? Check your privilege and all that.
Joking aside no, not on accusations.
Can anyone see the likely unintended consequences of this, I wonder.
What about violence by female officers and staff that commit violence against men.
It does happen and is not as rare as people think.
Convicted surely? Or are we enacting justice based on rumours now?
Only women? Or all genders, including those that are nascent?
Remember the other article on the front page of this sub today, about how people are leaving the police in droves.
This guilty until proven innocent bull shit is how you make that even worse.
I hereby accuse all police officers of violence against women.
Now why are Police officers quitting in massive numbers??? Just accuse someone you don’t like and boom , don’t have to worry about them anymore
So this is how I see it, if you care to read through this small essay…
*** scroll down and look for the asterisks for m my conclusion
There are two issues with the article I see in relation to opposition against the proposed legislation:
1) The charity that are advocating for this post data on what forces suspend officers upon allegation (% of allegation vs suspension rates).
But it does not provide data on the suspension rate vs conviction rate, or comment on the individual force’s internal investigation processes.
If a force had 100 officers accused, 5 of them were suspended and 50 of them were allowed to remain on duty. If of these 51% were found innocent then the process would be seen as reasonable, if it were reversed and 51% were allowed to to remain on duty then the results would still be reasonable for the process however on a risk benefit analysis it would need to be adjusted to be more risk averse.
The fact they are only publishing the accusation rate without any other data can lead to wild distortion of reality or facts, and it does not do the forces that respond well to these allegations justice.
2) In this you are (as I believe many will be) assuming that “police officers who commit are accused of violence against women” regards actions taken outside of work and/or domestic violence, that’s reasonable based on the group advocating for this change being a women’s charity.
But the article and the charity’s website don’t say that, it purely states “violence against women”.
– Statistically 5 times more men than women are arrested each year in the uk.
*** Conclusion: The website and the article are written with ambiguity to allow for the biggest punch/change to the system/“power grab” (not written with any ill will behind the term).
Tactically and politically it’s the right choice as it allows for a larger number of concessions whilst still achieving your original goal increasing your chances of success.
In the mean time it also generates controversy and without those willing/able to take a deeper look into the article, statistics and potential motivations general societal consensus will mean a larger percentage of the population who see it will support the action rather than oppose it.
30 comments
*sigh….* there’s just so much wrong with that idea.
Heart in the right place, head isn’t
Why just women?
George Carlin “They ought to have two new requirements for being on the police; intelligence and decency!”
[deleted]
>“In any other profession, suspension would be the norm
Would it?
Watch me take down the entire nation’s police with one email.
How about guys? Like, guys don’t count? Do you think I enjoy being bullied by some uniformed lowlife?
What is so terribly hard about ensuring that accusations are sincerely and thoroughly investigated without just assuming guilt or innocence at the outset?
Accused? Convicted fair enough, but the accusation alone? Enough being silly.
This will have absolutely no negative implications whatsoever. It isn’t like there’s an anonymous way of making criminal complaints or that the police are involved in an area of work that leads to grudges forming or anything. Oh, and they don’t all have unique ID numbers so it’s easy to find out who they are, no nothing like that.
One sec, just going to report the copper who keeps parking outside of my house for beating up the wife I don’t have, that should be fun.
Violent towards men? No issue
Why am I not surprised
Great idea, but with full pay right ? Especially since it’s at an accusation stage and not proven or determined/disproven yet?
I understand the sentiment of it but I fear it being abused.
Hypothetical-but-serious question
What if an accusation of violence against women was made against every single police officer and staff? As in : individual claims against every individual person, not one claim that listed everyone.
Would they all be suspended?
What then?
What does the person who has made this proposal suggest next?
Focusing 90% of strategy around anticipating internet outrage has ruined every institution
As a police officer whoever has thought of this idea has the critical thinking skills of soggy bread.
I’ve had 3 malicious complaints during my time and I’m aware most people who don’t just sit in the office have had far more. Shock horror people hold grudges when you jail them for being scumbags.
I had a domestic case where I jailed this boy for battering his partner, right nasty cunt of a guy. Submitted the case, went to court, guy was remanded because luckily he’d fucked up this time and I had his phone with all the abusive messages and neighbours had heard him battering her and we got there with her blood still on his hands. As per usual she goes uncooperative but thankfully we had enough to still get him put away. His sentencing date is coming up and I get taken into the inspectors room and told I have a complaint from her that i had assaulted her when we arrested her partner. Long story short, she wanted him out the jail and thought making a malicious complaint that i had battered her instead of him would help.
We get malicious complaints all the time. If you want to suspend everyone who gets a complaint good fucking luck finding anyone left on the streets. There’s fuck all of us left as it is.
Oh goodness, what a daft idea. Does this charity know the first thing about police work or just *how many* criminals make vexatious accusations against police officers?
I do wish people would sometimes test their ideas against reality before putting them forward.
Just an accusation? One weird trick for the law to never catch up to you (woman only)!
Please read the article. This was a petition arranged by Refuge, the women’s charity… who helps women who are victims of domestic violence.
A petition for male victims can be arranged just as easily. If you make one please post to the sub I’ll happily sign.
Convicted yes, accused no. Innocent till proven guilty.
Yeah, this is fucking stupid.
If this was the case and it was applied to all walks of life, all it would take is one person to accuse someone they don’t like of something serious and then would be that.
Eventually you’d have people doing it to everyone they don’t like or because they think that person did the same to them.
This shit would be endless because people are horrible pieces of shut.
What if the women were generally violent towards the officers? What are they going to do play the innocent card cause they have tits? They want equality to men but they also want leeways given to them on a platter.
Lol accused? People don’t like the police anyway, can’t wait for the police to do their job and a woman to claim violence and suddenly you’ve lost your job.
I see people working in retail and hospitality all the time talking about how unreasonable, rude etc the public is. Would you be happy if they had the power to instantly have you sacked?
So we’re not including violence against anyone else? Check your privilege and all that.
Joking aside no, not on accusations.
Can anyone see the likely unintended consequences of this, I wonder.
What about violence by female officers and staff that commit violence against men.
It does happen and is not as rare as people think.
Convicted surely? Or are we enacting justice based on rumours now?
Only women? Or all genders, including those that are nascent?
Remember the other article on the front page of this sub today, about how people are leaving the police in droves.
This guilty until proven innocent bull shit is how you make that even worse.
I hereby accuse all police officers of violence against women.
Now why are Police officers quitting in massive numbers??? Just accuse someone you don’t like and boom , don’t have to worry about them anymore
So this is how I see it, if you care to read through this small essay…
*** scroll down and look for the asterisks for m my conclusion
There are two issues with the article I see in relation to opposition against the proposed legislation:
1) The charity that are advocating for this post data on what forces suspend officers upon allegation (% of allegation vs suspension rates).
But it does not provide data on the suspension rate vs conviction rate, or comment on the individual force’s internal investigation processes.
If a force had 100 officers accused, 5 of them were suspended and 50 of them were allowed to remain on duty. If of these 51% were found innocent then the process would be seen as reasonable, if it were reversed and 51% were allowed to to remain on duty then the results would still be reasonable for the process however on a risk benefit analysis it would need to be adjusted to be more risk averse.
The fact they are only publishing the accusation rate without any other data can lead to wild distortion of reality or facts, and it does not do the forces that respond well to these allegations justice.
https://refuge.org.uk/news/rremove-the-rot-refuge-investigation-uncovers-magnitude-of-police-forces-failure-to-tackle-violent-misogyny-by-police-officers-and-staff/#:~:text=National%20Police%20Chief's%20Council%20published,cases%20of%20police%20perpetrated%20VAWG%C2%B9.
2) In this you are (as I believe many will be) assuming that “police officers who commit are accused of violence against women” regards actions taken outside of work and/or domestic violence, that’s reasonable based on the group advocating for this change being a women’s charity.
But the article and the charity’s website don’t say that, it purely states “violence against women”.
– Statistically 5 times more men than women are arrested each year in the uk.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/377412/arrests-england-and-wales-time-series-by-gender/
– statistically 80% of police incident using force (reasonable or otherwise) involve male suspects.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/police-use-of-force-statistics-april-2022-to-march-2023/police-use-of-force-statistics-england-and-wales-april-2022-to-march-2023
– Statistically men are more likely to be victims of violent crime in the UK.
https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/trends-in-violent-crime/#:~:text=The%20TCSEW%20showed%20that%20in,the%20number%20of%20female%20victims.
*** Conclusion: The website and the article are written with ambiguity to allow for the biggest punch/change to the system/“power grab” (not written with any ill will behind the term).
Tactically and politically it’s the right choice as it allows for a larger number of concessions whilst still achieving your original goal increasing your chances of success.
In the mean time it also generates controversy and without those willing/able to take a deeper look into the article, statistics and potential motivations general societal consensus will mean a larger percentage of the population who see it will support the action rather than oppose it.
Well played, Refuge. Well played…