Contrast two leaders. Donald Trump’s approval ratings barely budged during his presidency, and his supporters dismissed every scandal as “fake news”. But when Boris Johnson turned out to have doubled as a party host during lockdown, his supporters fled: his net favourability rating went from +29 per cent in April 2020 to -52 per cent last week, according to pollsters YouGov.
Here, in microcosm, is the uniqueness of American polarisation. People often discuss polarisation as a global problem, but in fact, in most western European and even Latin American democracies, rival camps aren’t deeply entrenched or always entirely serious.
Western polarisation peaked between 2016 and 2018, with the victories of Brexit, Trump and Brazil’s Jair Bolsonaro, the violent clashes over Catalan independence, and the entry of the anti-system Five Star and nativist League into Italy’s government.
Today the US remains dangerously polarised — more like Turkey or India than western Europe. Among Republicans in particular, ethnic, religious and ideological identities are often perfectly aligned. Many believe God supports their party. Egged on by Trump, they fear their tribe is under existential threat. In a survey by George Washington University, most Republicans said, “the traditional American way of life is disappearing so fast we may have to use force to save it”. They have enough firearms.
The US is also handicapped by its constitution, which among other things has made the Supreme Court — arguably the country’s mightiest political institution, given congressional gridlock — a past-winner-takes-all prize. (Poland has a similar problem.) The step back from democracy is short in the US, since southern states impeded many black people from voting until the late 1960s.
Is it identity politics? And the incessant belief that people need to find differences and grievances between each other vs working together!?
Because if it isn’t, I’ll be shocked!
Shit like this needs to be avoided and not taken seriously least it spread like it did in the Anglo sphere.
A society that was trending towards improved relations and decided not let’s adapt policies and ideologies to recreate the type of hatred and differences between our selves seen in the Balkans once upon a time.
Right wing populists and far right are an exception. My name is on a list of people to be shot by neo fascists posing as patriots. I have received death threats. They have attacked people. So it is not impossible to see this divide creep up, US right wing have been working on it for years, accompanied by Russia who will use anything to create a divide.
We have to resist that kind of a change.
Europe is a clusterfuck of leftover trauma. The comments on this sub can attest to that.
Americans think of politics as a pro sports team league and as an opportunity for boasting in the nearest Steak House Franchise [ or while on vacation in Disney World]..
Europeans think of politics as a means of trying to avoid another global conflagration.
[deleted]
Wokism and the fox news crowd.
Let’s hope we can shun both from our continent.
Europeans think Jim Crow was a real person
It’s the two party system almost everything else just results from that. Europe isn’t like that because most of them saw what was happening in the US and could make adjustments so they didn’t have to have that kind of system.
[deleted]
Europe is not a single country like the US.
The power of the central government is not as strong as in the US.
Each country has a slightly different style of society and government.
Some are Murdoch infested, others are not (yet?).
But seeing recent developments, the caption should be changed to “Europe is not YET”
The article is a jumble of confusion, and so seems the author’s mind. What is specific to both US and UK politics is the need (past or present) to dispatch troops around the world at short notice to protect a sprawling empire. You can’t do that with the coalition or minority governments so typical of continental Europe. You need a strong majority government that can only be achieved by a two party system. The two-party system entrenches polarization in all aspects of society. Thus, foreign policy will have its impact on domestic politics and the internal affaires of a country. That cannot be changed unless the desire for empire is abandoned.
Let’s circlejerk with articles about how awesome Europe is guys. That seems healthy. Those stupid yanks are falling apart not like all the awesomeness here.
What underpins European politics is Social Democratic / Catholic social teaching that has resulted in a general consensus about what the social fabric is supposed to look like, that’s the fundamental difference between Europe in the US.
Political relations in the US are fundamentally antagonistic. Consumers vs business, red vs blue, racial tensions and so on. One private sphere in conflict with another one.
It’s funny that Europe is often considered to be exceptionally secular, but in a communal sense it’s still much more grounded than the US is. Post-war capitalism has had much less of an impact on Europe than on the US for that reason, and it shows in polarization.
Eeeh… are we not? Here in the swamp, we are pretty polarized.
I had glimpses of UK and French discourse and it was absolutely the same if not worse than the US polarization, as seen from outside. Regarding trans rights in the UK it’s insane how many psycho trans hating “feminists” there are (and they are influencing others across the continent), also colonial discourse has been completely infested with the American identity politics style divisive rethoric. There is some shocking right wing extremism coming from French Africans but while using that woke logic and lingo, but still actually fascism 1:1. I don’t know how prevalent that is though. And of course there is the refugee polarisation across the whole EU.
The whole world is an American colony. Whatever happens there echoes throughout the globe. The George Floyd protests have inspired similar civil disobedience around the globe. When I saw a demolished statue in Vienna, with graffiti going something like “colonial bastard”… I was like… Um… Stop trying so hard to be USA. I mean, they’re gonna pretend they were a colonial power in Africa and still think less of “Yugos” and other Eastern Europeans, as if that doesn’t count because we’re “white”. I mean, I find Austrohungarian influence (or colonization if you want) in the Balkans an overall very positive historical thing, I think this debate should be more balanced and honest in the west as well.
And then there’s France that did who knows how many coups in Africa in the 20th century and installed their little dictators and still exploits them. And all of a sudden, after George Floyd, they are reconciling with their past. It’s positive of course, but it seems a bit pretentious to do it only when it became cool in the American mainstream.
My point is whatever happens in the USA will come to Europe as well. This can be both positive and negative. I really hope the Antiwork movement inspires worker rights movements around the world! Feminist and LGBT rights were really tremendously increased by following American example.
Edit: oh and it was so ironic to see people in the Balkans being all supportive or BLM when a lot of them would talk shit about Gypsies.
Europe is many countries. If a country makes a mistake it has to admit it and move forward.
yet another list of reasons i’m glad I don’t live there.
The voting system in the US creates binary politics, which was fine until the end of the cold war. You could have left leaning republicans and right leaning democrats but they could work together because neither saw each other as adversaries in the free world.
Now with other regions getting richer that sense of cooperation has turned to acrimony. The EU is a voluntary union as demonstrated by brexit so there isn’t that same tension as in the USA which still has fault lines from the civil war.
Europe is not one country, mystery solved.
It’s LESS polarised you mean.
Well, Germany is collaborating with Russia and other countries in Europe are worried about Russian invasion and/or adventurism. It’s not the first time that Germany has ruined Europe and this time we might be seeing the beginning of another example.
Poland seems pretty polarized to me
Europe is extremely polarised – it’s just not so obvious because we’re spread across different countries with different languages. But in every country, speaking every language, we are still divided and polarised. My little Irish aunty won’t get a covid vaccine because she genuinely believes the billionaires put microchips in them. We’re just as fucked as America.
25 comments
1.
Contrast two leaders. Donald Trump’s approval ratings barely budged during his presidency, and his supporters dismissed every scandal as “fake news”. But when Boris Johnson turned out to have doubled as a party host during lockdown, his supporters fled: his net favourability rating went from +29 per cent in April 2020 to -52 per cent last week, according to pollsters YouGov.
Here, in microcosm, is the uniqueness of American polarisation. People often discuss polarisation as a global problem, but in fact, in most western European and even Latin American democracies, rival camps aren’t deeply entrenched or always entirely serious.
Western polarisation peaked between 2016 and 2018, with the victories of Brexit, Trump and Brazil’s Jair Bolsonaro, the violent clashes over Catalan independence, and the entry of the anti-system Five Star and nativist League into Italy’s government.
Today the US remains dangerously polarised — more like Turkey or India than western Europe. Among Republicans in particular, ethnic, religious and ideological identities are often perfectly aligned. Many believe God supports their party. Egged on by Trump, they fear their tribe is under existential threat. In a survey by George Washington University, most Republicans said, “the traditional American way of life is disappearing so fast we may have to use force to save it”. They have enough firearms.
The US is also handicapped by its constitution, which among other things has made the Supreme Court — arguably the country’s mightiest political institution, given congressional gridlock — a past-winner-takes-all prize. (Poland has a similar problem.) The step back from democracy is short in the US, since southern states impeded many black people from voting until the late 1960s.
Is it identity politics? And the incessant belief that people need to find differences and grievances between each other vs working together!?
Because if it isn’t, I’ll be shocked!
Shit like this needs to be avoided and not taken seriously least it spread like it did in the Anglo sphere.
A society that was trending towards improved relations and decided not let’s adapt policies and ideologies to recreate the type of hatred and differences between our selves seen in the Balkans once upon a time.
Right wing populists and far right are an exception. My name is on a list of people to be shot by neo fascists posing as patriots. I have received death threats. They have attacked people. So it is not impossible to see this divide creep up, US right wing have been working on it for years, accompanied by Russia who will use anything to create a divide.
We have to resist that kind of a change.
Europe is a clusterfuck of leftover trauma. The comments on this sub can attest to that.
Americans think of politics as a pro sports team league and as an opportunity for boasting in the nearest Steak House Franchise [ or while on vacation in Disney World]..
Europeans think of politics as a means of trying to avoid another global conflagration.
[deleted]
Wokism and the fox news crowd.
Let’s hope we can shun both from our continent.
Europeans think Jim Crow was a real person
It’s the two party system almost everything else just results from that. Europe isn’t like that because most of them saw what was happening in the US and could make adjustments so they didn’t have to have that kind of system.
[deleted]
Europe is not a single country like the US.
The power of the central government is not as strong as in the US.
Each country has a slightly different style of society and government.
Some are Murdoch infested, others are not (yet?).
But seeing recent developments, the caption should be changed to “Europe is not YET”
The article is a jumble of confusion, and so seems the author’s mind. What is specific to both US and UK politics is the need (past or present) to dispatch troops around the world at short notice to protect a sprawling empire. You can’t do that with the coalition or minority governments so typical of continental Europe. You need a strong majority government that can only be achieved by a two party system. The two-party system entrenches polarization in all aspects of society. Thus, foreign policy will have its impact on domestic politics and the internal affaires of a country. That cannot be changed unless the desire for empire is abandoned.
Let’s circlejerk with articles about how awesome Europe is guys. That seems healthy. Those stupid yanks are falling apart not like all the awesomeness here.
What underpins European politics is Social Democratic / Catholic social teaching that has resulted in a general consensus about what the social fabric is supposed to look like, that’s the fundamental difference between Europe in the US.
Political relations in the US are fundamentally antagonistic. Consumers vs business, red vs blue, racial tensions and so on. One private sphere in conflict with another one.
It’s funny that Europe is often considered to be exceptionally secular, but in a communal sense it’s still much more grounded than the US is. Post-war capitalism has had much less of an impact on Europe than on the US for that reason, and it shows in polarization.
Eeeh… are we not? Here in the swamp, we are pretty polarized.
I had glimpses of UK and French discourse and it was absolutely the same if not worse than the US polarization, as seen from outside. Regarding trans rights in the UK it’s insane how many psycho trans hating “feminists” there are (and they are influencing others across the continent), also colonial discourse has been completely infested with the American identity politics style divisive rethoric. There is some shocking right wing extremism coming from French Africans but while using that woke logic and lingo, but still actually fascism 1:1. I don’t know how prevalent that is though. And of course there is the refugee polarisation across the whole EU.
The whole world is an American colony. Whatever happens there echoes throughout the globe. The George Floyd protests have inspired similar civil disobedience around the globe. When I saw a demolished statue in Vienna, with graffiti going something like “colonial bastard”… I was like… Um… Stop trying so hard to be USA. I mean, they’re gonna pretend they were a colonial power in Africa and still think less of “Yugos” and other Eastern Europeans, as if that doesn’t count because we’re “white”. I mean, I find Austrohungarian influence (or colonization if you want) in the Balkans an overall very positive historical thing, I think this debate should be more balanced and honest in the west as well.
And then there’s France that did who knows how many coups in Africa in the 20th century and installed their little dictators and still exploits them. And all of a sudden, after George Floyd, they are reconciling with their past. It’s positive of course, but it seems a bit pretentious to do it only when it became cool in the American mainstream.
My point is whatever happens in the USA will come to Europe as well. This can be both positive and negative. I really hope the Antiwork movement inspires worker rights movements around the world! Feminist and LGBT rights were really tremendously increased by following American example.
Edit: oh and it was so ironic to see people in the Balkans being all supportive or BLM when a lot of them would talk shit about Gypsies.
Europe is many countries. If a country makes a mistake it has to admit it and move forward.
yet another list of reasons i’m glad I don’t live there.
The voting system in the US creates binary politics, which was fine until the end of the cold war. You could have left leaning republicans and right leaning democrats but they could work together because neither saw each other as adversaries in the free world.
Now with other regions getting richer that sense of cooperation has turned to acrimony. The EU is a voluntary union as demonstrated by brexit so there isn’t that same tension as in the USA which still has fault lines from the civil war.
Europe is not one country, mystery solved.
It’s LESS polarised you mean.
Well, Germany is collaborating with Russia and other countries in Europe are worried about Russian invasion and/or adventurism. It’s not the first time that Germany has ruined Europe and this time we might be seeing the beginning of another example.
Poland seems pretty polarized to me
Europe is extremely polarised – it’s just not so obvious because we’re spread across different countries with different languages. But in every country, speaking every language, we are still divided and polarised. My little Irish aunty won’t get a covid vaccine because she genuinely believes the billionaires put microchips in them. We’re just as fucked as America.