The European Commission will take steps to punish Poland for challenging the supremacy of EU law, its head has vowed as she condemned Warsaw for “calling into question the foundations of the European Union”.
Ursula von der Leyen, commission president, said on Tuesday that Brussels would use one of three tools to hit back at Poland, ranging from a legal challenge, to a formal sanction that could withhold tens of billions of euros in EU funds, and a political process that has the power to strip the country of bloc membership rights.
“We cannot and we will not allow our common values to be put at risk. The Commission will act,” von der Leyen told the European parliament, as Poland’s prime minister sat in the chamber looking on. “This ruling . . . is a direct challenge to the unity of the European legal order.”
Brussels is under increasing pressure from European lawmakers and some member states to harden its stance against Poland and punish the country’s government for a court ruling this month that declared parts of EU law were not compatible with the Polish constitution.
That ruling significantly escalated a five-year-long struggle between Brussels and Warsaw over rule of law concerns, related to sweeping judicial reforms by the ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party that have included an attempt to purge the Supreme Court, and the introduction of a disciplinary regime that allows judges to be punished for the content of their rulings.
Addressing a debate devoted to the Polish crisis, von der Leyen said the commission was “carefully assessing” the ruling, adding: “But I can already tell you: I am deeply concerned.”
Responding to her with a speech of his own, Polish prime minister Mateusz Morawiecki insisted that European integration had been a “civilisational and strategic choice” for his country, and that his government was part of the “pro-European majority in Poland”.
However, he accused the EU of double standards in its treatment of Warsaw, and dismissed criticism of his government as “unfair and biased”. He also argued that EU institutions had overstepped their powers in trying to force Poland to roll back its reforms.
“It is not acceptable to force on others decisions which have no legal basis. And it is even less acceptable to use the language of financial blackmail, talk of fines . . . I reject the language of threats,” he told MEPs.
The debate in Strasbourg, which saw a string of MEPs take the floor to lambast Morawiecki and his government, comes ahead of a European Council summit in Brussels beginning on Thursday where a number of EU leaders are expected to confront the Polish prime minister.
Some member states have demanded the commission initiate a so-called conditionality mechanism that has the power to withhold EU funds — worth tens of billions of euros each year for Poland — if Brussels believes the legal spending of that cash is at risk.
Von der Leyen said this was one of three options on the table. Another, less aggressive move would be a legal challenge to the Warsaw ruling. The final option is the EU’s Article 7 procedure, which allows the bloc to suspend a member’s rights if it believes EU values are being consistently endangered.
“The third option is the Article 7 procedure. This is the powerful tool in the Treaty. And we must come back to it,” she said.
Polish government officials said the commission has misunderstood the court ruling and is both responding to its most extreme interpretation and taking a political approach to a legal issue. “With this approach to the ruling it will be hard to de-escalate,” said one.
Morawiecki told lawmakers: “If the institutions created in the [EU] treaties exceed their powers, member states have to have a tool to respond. The EU is a great achievement of the states in Europe. It is a powerful economic, political and social alliance. It is the strongest, most developed international organisation in history. But the EU is not a state.”
How can they punish someone for “challenging”. The Polish constitution states its the highest instance of law of the land and Poland was never asked to change it to continue being an EU member. What a joke.
“The EU is a great achievement of the states in Europe. It is a powerful economic, political and social alliance. It is the strongest, most developed international organisation in history. But the **EU is not a state**.” – Morawiecki.
This is one of those issues where Europe needs to work out exactly what it wants to be long term and so.
Also what memebers want out it, what EU wants out it and such.
Brussels is NOT Punishing Poland, but reminding Poland of it’s Commitment to the E.U. and how lucky it is for having been given Membership into E.U.
​
Dr. Rukminesh Mehta, PsyD (abd)
For all of this to go away as fast as possible they should ask for referendums in all EU member countries, a simple question, “do you want EU law to be above your national law?”. Either the people want it or don’t want it, I don’t see why people are so hesitant about referendums and, most importantly, the people get to voice what they want which is of course most important.
Poland has gained so much from the EU, and the Polish people overwhelmingly want to stay, it would be monumentally stupid for them to leave, even more stupid than brexit.
dangerous situation
« Punish »? Well that sort of talk went well with UK
Grave miscalculation by the Polish government to escalate this conflict. There is no exit strategy.
There will be no climbing down from the Commission.
Poles don’t seem to understand how this is viewed in countries who are actually net contributors to the EU budget.
EDIT: Here’s an example from the article, for all of those who keep on focusing on the Commission itself, instead of the member states.
>France’s European affairs minister Clément Beaune said at a separate EU ministerial meeting in Luxembourg on Tuesday that “budget solidarity cannot continue if there is no respect for the fundamental values inscribed in the EU treaty”.
>Echoing that sentiment, his German counterpart Michael Roth said he did not “see any room for compromises” over the rule of law dispute with Poland: “There can be no special deals.”
“EU bad because it won’t let me appoint friendly judges” continues the general theme of the EU’s biggest detractors being its most positive advertisement.
“Punish”, as in, make Poland follow the rules it agreed to when it joined the EU. How dare the club punish me by making me follow its rules and not just let me continue be the largest user of the club’s assets.
>Almost 40 years ago, in December 1981, the Communist regime in Poland imposed martial law. Many members of Solidarność, the independent trade union, and of other groups were put in jail. Simply, because they stood up for their rights. The people of Poland wanted democracy, like millions of other Europeans from Budapest to Tallinn, to East Berlin. They wanted the freedom to choose their government. They wanted free speech and free media. They wanted an end to corruption. And they wanted independent courts to protect their rights. The people of Central and Eastern Europe wanted to join the European family of free people, a strong community of values and democracy. Because that is what Europe is about and that is what Europe stands for.
>Honourable Members,
>The recent ruling of the Polish Constitutional Court puts much of it into question. We have been concerned about the independence of the judiciary for some time. Judges have seen their immunity being lifted and have been driven out of office without justification. This threatens judicial independence, which is a basic pillar of the rule of law. We have taken a number of measures. We continue to have a regular dialogue. But unfortunately the situation has worsened. And this is not only the Commission’s opinion: This is what has been confirmed by the European Court of Justice and the European Court of Human Rights. And now, this has culminated in the most recent ruling of the Polish Constitutional Court.
>Honourable Members,
>The European Commission is, at the moment, carefully assessing this judgement. But I can already tell you today: I am deeply concerned. This ruling calls into question the foundations of the European Union. It is a direct challenge to the unity of the European legal order. Only a common legal order provides equal rights, legal certainty, mutual trust between Member States and therefore common policies. This is the first time ever that a court of a Member State finds that the EU Treaties are incompatible with the national constitution. This has serious consequences for the Polish people. Because the ruling has a direct impact on the protection of the judiciary. The ruling undermines the protection of the judicial independence as guaranteed by Article 19 of the Treaty and as interpreted by the European Court of Justice. Without independent courts, people have less protection and consequently their rights are at stake.
>Honourable Members,
>Polish people must be able to rely on fair and equal treatment in the judicial system, just like any other European citizen. In our Union, we all enjoy the same rights. This basic principle fundamentally impacts people’s lives. Because if European law is applied differently in Grenoble or Göttingen, or Gdańsk, EU citizens would not be able to rely on the same rights everywhere.
>Honourable Members,
>When joining the European Union, the Polish people put their trust in the European Union. They expected the European Union to defend their rights. And rightly so. The Commission is the guardian of the Treaty. It is my Commission’s duty to protect the rights of EU citizens, wherever they live in our Union. The rule of law is the glue that binds our Union together. It is the foundation of our unity. It is essential for the protection of the values, on which our Union is founded: democracy, freedom, equality and respect for human rights. And this is what all 27 Member States have signed up to as part of this Union, as sovereign countries and free people.
>Honourable Members,
>We cannot and we will not allow our common values to be put at risk. The Commission will act. And the options are all known. The first option are infringements, where we legally challenge the judgement by the Polish Constitutional Court.
>Another option is the conditionality mechanism and other financial tools. The Polish government has to explain to us how it intends to protect European money, given this ruling of their Constitutional Court. Because in the coming years, we will be investing EUR 2.100 billion with the Multiannual Budget and the NextGenerationEU recovery programme. This is European taxpayers’ money. And if our Union is investing more than ever to advance our collective recovery, we must protect the Union’s budget against breaches of the rule of law.
>The third option is the Article 7 procedure. This is the powerful tool in the Treaty. And we must come back to it. Because let me remind you: The Polish Constitutional Court that today has cast doubts on the validity of our Treaty is the same court that under Article 7 we consider not to be independent and legitimate. And this in many ways comes full circle.
>Honourable Members,
>I deeply regret that we find ourselves in this situation. I have always been a proponent of dialogue and I will always be. This is a situation that can and must be resolved. And we want a strong Poland in a united Europe. We want Poland to be at the heart of our debates in building a common future. Poland has a stake in Europe. Together, we can build a Europe that is strong and confident in a world where other big powers become more and more assertive. Europe has benefited from Poland’s unique experience so much. Without the people of Poland, our European journey would have been very different.
>When Karol Wojtyła, as Pope John Paul II, went to his homeland, he changed European history forever. When Lech Wałęsa with a scattered group of trade unionists overcame a mighty army, we saw the beginning of the fall of the Iron Curtain. And when President Lech Kaczyński ratified the Lisbon Treaty together with the Charter of Fundamental Rights, he reaffirmed Poland’s commitment to our values. Polish people have played a fundamental role in making our Union whole, in enabling their homeland to thrive as a vital part of our Union. And they will always be.
>Polsko, jesteś i zawsze będziesz w sercu Europy!
>Niech żyje Polska!
>Niech żyje Europa!
>Poland, you are and you will always be at the heart of Europe.
>European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen told EU lawmakers on Monday that she was “deeply concerned” over the developments in Poland.
>
>She also shared her remarks on Twitter. She went on to mention the “Article 7 procedure” as a “powerful tool” to deal with violations from member states. Article 7 allows the EU to remove certain rights of member states, including stripping them of their voting rights.”
“vows to punish” seems overly dramatic and politically charged.
This is bs.
Every memeber states have challenged supremacy of EU laws. This is why we have become a joke since there in no clear cut answer and as always EU has a million exception and exemptions.
And the EU will punish Poland with some VERY strong words about crap nobody cares about while continuing to fund the Government and buying natural gas from Russia.
Im conflicted honestly. The Polish gomernvment are doing shit just to skirt and abuse EU regulations. But on the other hand i sure as hell dont want a more authoritarian EU that meddles with nations internal laws and affairs more than it does today.
Can someone explain the governance the EU has on its members. Like are the Laws the EU makes just for the governments of the members and those countries can make their own laws for their citizens, or are the EU laws a mix of government laws and civilian laws?
I’m just curious on how that all works and here seems like a good place to ask.
Well, they have already used carrots. Now its time for a stick.
Let me get one thing straight – the Polish Constitution vs TSUE legal precedence issue is actually just a smokescreen for Polish govt and their authoritarian aspirations.
As MEP Sikorski rightly put it – the **real issue** at hand is that it is Kaczyński and co. that violate the provisions of both European Treaties AND Polish Constitution (Article 173 thereof, to be precise) in the first place, by appointing so-called Izba Dyscyplinarna (Disciplinary Chamber) in order to punish lawfully elected judges that could become disobedient towards the ruling coalition and its members.
The very existence of the Disciplinary Chamber is illegal and non-compliant with the democratic principle of the separation of judicial and legislative powers, making the ruling PMs practically immune to the national jurisdiction.
Many Polish citizens are aware of this, hence abundant protests calling for upholding both constitutional and European law. The problem is, PiS has already taken over a number of major media outlets in the country, thus silencing the narrative of those who want to counteract their Kremlin-inspired goals and policies.
Multi-Speed European integration…. Can anyone tell me why isn’t that the way?
Hey other Europeans, just wanted to say that maany (probably most of young generation) people doesn’t agree with our terrible government. They just keep winning the elections by bribing poor voters with a little bit of money while stealing twice as much behind backs. Please don’t judge polish people through the prism of our government.
Most of the people commenting here have zero understanding of the issue at hand. Just pure ignorance and stupidity.
I have no dog in this fight as an American. But here’s my unrequested analysis:
While great in many respects, the EU has a documented democratic deficit. Because the EU has a democratic deficit, when you have an issue with the EU, it’s tough to do anything because you can’t hold the organization accountable; simply, you can’t vote people out and no one you vote for can even introduce legislation to reverse what you disagree with. Originally, the EU was an organization founded to regulate a bunch of non-politically sensitive and highly technical industries, but things have changed overtime; the EU has displayed a trend to expand its reach into new spheres and grow as an organization toward greater integration. If you aren’t on board with this trend, you are powerless to stop it. The only thing you can do is leave if your disagreements outweigh your willingness to stay. Britain did just that. Poland isn’t on board with integration into certain politically sensitive areas, but it still wants to remain part of the EU. Unfortunately, it’s powerless to change the EU’s direction. I think tensions can only escalate unless you see a massive shift in Polish opinion on certain sensitive issues like gay rights and religion.
Poland has serious issues with the independence of its judiciary. I haven’t read the relevant Polish judicial opinion, but my first impression is that it seems like when there is a conflict in law between the Polish Constitution and the EU’s statute or regulation, the constitution should win out and require an amendment. I don’t know whether the opinion is influenced by the lack of independence, and even if it is, whether it is without merit.
Basically, I don’t see an off-ramp for this conflict.
VDL also upset about Cyberpunk 2077 and how it runs on PS4.
How exactly is the Polish constitutional court controversy worse than the recent Karlsruhe decision?
Under the principal of subsidiarity the EU cannot introduce law where the member states already legislate for, but EU law is superior in areas where it has an explicit competence. For example, trade. This was recognised by the Polish government and the court. On the other had, the Karlsuhe ruling seemed to suggest EU law is inferior to German law in areas where it has a clear competence, and in that case it was monetary policy.
If anyone could enlighten me, I would appreciate it!
Say what you want about the EU but if we start making our laws that override the union’s it’s all over.
Doing nothing germany hasn’t already done re the supremacy of constitutional law.
Or basic law as its termed in Germany.
I am Polish and I am really worried about my future. I don’t want to live under Law and Justice’s dictatorship for the rest of my life.
Maybe it’s time to learn Norwegian.
It’s stuff like this that makes people think the EU wants to take over their country.
Well state tv had transmision with 5 min delay and they would only show supporting voices for this and talk throught all negative thing it was all done to fuel internal propaganda.
The title is misleading.
This is not about supremacy of EU law over Polish law, this is about rules and agreements (free press, free law, etc) that Poland agreed to when it joined the EU.
It is not about punishment but if Poland does not want to follow the rules and agreements that it signed up to when it joined the EU, why should the EU sponsor the Polish government with 125 Billion euro each year?
Friendly reminder that Article 7 requires unanimity and that Hungary will veto it before the paper hits the table. The commission is using strong language to mask impotence.
So far it’s just words and no action.
Divide and conquer.
They’ll be following us out of the fourth reich at this rate!
37 comments
https://archive.md/sMcWf
The European Commission will take steps to punish Poland for challenging the supremacy of EU law, its head has vowed as she condemned Warsaw for “calling into question the foundations of the European Union”.
Ursula von der Leyen, commission president, said on Tuesday that Brussels would use one of three tools to hit back at Poland, ranging from a legal challenge, to a formal sanction that could withhold tens of billions of euros in EU funds, and a political process that has the power to strip the country of bloc membership rights.
“We cannot and we will not allow our common values to be put at risk. The Commission will act,” von der Leyen told the European parliament, as Poland’s prime minister sat in the chamber looking on. “This ruling . . . is a direct challenge to the unity of the European legal order.”
Brussels is under increasing pressure from European lawmakers and some member states to harden its stance against Poland and punish the country’s government for a court ruling this month that declared parts of EU law were not compatible with the Polish constitution.
That ruling significantly escalated a five-year-long struggle between Brussels and Warsaw over rule of law concerns, related to sweeping judicial reforms by the ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party that have included an attempt to purge the Supreme Court, and the introduction of a disciplinary regime that allows judges to be punished for the content of their rulings.
Addressing a debate devoted to the Polish crisis, von der Leyen said the commission was “carefully assessing” the ruling, adding: “But I can already tell you: I am deeply concerned.”
Responding to her with a speech of his own, Polish prime minister Mateusz Morawiecki insisted that European integration had been a “civilisational and strategic choice” for his country, and that his government was part of the “pro-European majority in Poland”.
However, he accused the EU of double standards in its treatment of Warsaw, and dismissed criticism of his government as “unfair and biased”. He also argued that EU institutions had overstepped their powers in trying to force Poland to roll back its reforms.
“It is not acceptable to force on others decisions which have no legal basis. And it is even less acceptable to use the language of financial blackmail, talk of fines . . . I reject the language of threats,” he told MEPs.
The debate in Strasbourg, which saw a string of MEPs take the floor to lambast Morawiecki and his government, comes ahead of a European Council summit in Brussels beginning on Thursday where a number of EU leaders are expected to confront the Polish prime minister.
Some member states have demanded the commission initiate a so-called conditionality mechanism that has the power to withhold EU funds — worth tens of billions of euros each year for Poland — if Brussels believes the legal spending of that cash is at risk.
Von der Leyen said this was one of three options on the table. Another, less aggressive move would be a legal challenge to the Warsaw ruling. The final option is the EU’s Article 7 procedure, which allows the bloc to suspend a member’s rights if it believes EU values are being consistently endangered.
“The third option is the Article 7 procedure. This is the powerful tool in the Treaty. And we must come back to it,” she said.
Polish government officials said the commission has misunderstood the court ruling and is both responding to its most extreme interpretation and taking a political approach to a legal issue. “With this approach to the ruling it will be hard to de-escalate,” said one.
Morawiecki told lawmakers: “If the institutions created in the [EU] treaties exceed their powers, member states have to have a tool to respond. The EU is a great achievement of the states in Europe. It is a powerful economic, political and social alliance. It is the strongest, most developed international organisation in history. But the EU is not a state.”
How can they punish someone for “challenging”. The Polish constitution states its the highest instance of law of the land and Poland was never asked to change it to continue being an EU member. What a joke.
“The EU is a great achievement of the states in Europe. It is a powerful economic, political and social alliance. It is the strongest, most developed international organisation in history. But the **EU is not a state**.” – Morawiecki.
This is one of those issues where Europe needs to work out exactly what it wants to be long term and so.
Also what memebers want out it, what EU wants out it and such.
Brussels is NOT Punishing Poland, but reminding Poland of it’s Commitment to the E.U. and how lucky it is for having been given Membership into E.U.
​
Dr. Rukminesh Mehta, PsyD (abd)
For all of this to go away as fast as possible they should ask for referendums in all EU member countries, a simple question, “do you want EU law to be above your national law?”. Either the people want it or don’t want it, I don’t see why people are so hesitant about referendums and, most importantly, the people get to voice what they want which is of course most important.
Poland has gained so much from the EU, and the Polish people overwhelmingly want to stay, it would be monumentally stupid for them to leave, even more stupid than brexit.
dangerous situation
« Punish »? Well that sort of talk went well with UK
Grave miscalculation by the Polish government to escalate this conflict. There is no exit strategy.
There will be no climbing down from the Commission.
Poles don’t seem to understand how this is viewed in countries who are actually net contributors to the EU budget.
EDIT: Here’s an example from the article, for all of those who keep on focusing on the Commission itself, instead of the member states.
>France’s European affairs minister Clément Beaune said at a separate EU ministerial meeting in Luxembourg on Tuesday that “budget solidarity cannot continue if there is no respect for the fundamental values inscribed in the EU treaty”.
>Echoing that sentiment, his German counterpart Michael Roth said he did not “see any room for compromises” over the rule of law dispute with Poland: “There can be no special deals.”
“EU bad because it won’t let me appoint friendly judges” continues the general theme of the EU’s biggest detractors being its most positive advertisement.
“Punish”, as in, make Poland follow the rules it agreed to when it joined the EU. How dare the club punish me by making me follow its rules and not just let me continue be the largest user of the club’s assets.
Documenting the full [Speech by President von der Leyen at the European Parliament Plenary on the rule of law crisis in Poland and the primacy of EU law](https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/speech_21_5361)
>Thank you Vice-President Silva Pereira,
>Dear Prime Minister Morawiecki,
>Dear Minister Logar,
>Honourable Members,
>Almost 40 years ago, in December 1981, the Communist regime in Poland imposed martial law. Many members of Solidarność, the independent trade union, and of other groups were put in jail. Simply, because they stood up for their rights. The people of Poland wanted democracy, like millions of other Europeans from Budapest to Tallinn, to East Berlin. They wanted the freedom to choose their government. They wanted free speech and free media. They wanted an end to corruption. And they wanted independent courts to protect their rights. The people of Central and Eastern Europe wanted to join the European family of free people, a strong community of values and democracy. Because that is what Europe is about and that is what Europe stands for.
>Honourable Members,
>The recent ruling of the Polish Constitutional Court puts much of it into question. We have been concerned about the independence of the judiciary for some time. Judges have seen their immunity being lifted and have been driven out of office without justification. This threatens judicial independence, which is a basic pillar of the rule of law. We have taken a number of measures. We continue to have a regular dialogue. But unfortunately the situation has worsened. And this is not only the Commission’s opinion: This is what has been confirmed by the European Court of Justice and the European Court of Human Rights. And now, this has culminated in the most recent ruling of the Polish Constitutional Court.
>Honourable Members,
>The European Commission is, at the moment, carefully assessing this judgement. But I can already tell you today: I am deeply concerned. This ruling calls into question the foundations of the European Union. It is a direct challenge to the unity of the European legal order. Only a common legal order provides equal rights, legal certainty, mutual trust between Member States and therefore common policies. This is the first time ever that a court of a Member State finds that the EU Treaties are incompatible with the national constitution. This has serious consequences for the Polish people. Because the ruling has a direct impact on the protection of the judiciary. The ruling undermines the protection of the judicial independence as guaranteed by Article 19 of the Treaty and as interpreted by the European Court of Justice. Without independent courts, people have less protection and consequently their rights are at stake.
>Honourable Members,
>Polish people must be able to rely on fair and equal treatment in the judicial system, just like any other European citizen. In our Union, we all enjoy the same rights. This basic principle fundamentally impacts people’s lives. Because if European law is applied differently in Grenoble or Göttingen, or Gdańsk, EU citizens would not be able to rely on the same rights everywhere.
>Honourable Members,
>When joining the European Union, the Polish people put their trust in the European Union. They expected the European Union to defend their rights. And rightly so. The Commission is the guardian of the Treaty. It is my Commission’s duty to protect the rights of EU citizens, wherever they live in our Union. The rule of law is the glue that binds our Union together. It is the foundation of our unity. It is essential for the protection of the values, on which our Union is founded: democracy, freedom, equality and respect for human rights. And this is what all 27 Member States have signed up to as part of this Union, as sovereign countries and free people.
>Honourable Members,
>We cannot and we will not allow our common values to be put at risk. The Commission will act. And the options are all known. The first option are infringements, where we legally challenge the judgement by the Polish Constitutional Court.
>Another option is the conditionality mechanism and other financial tools. The Polish government has to explain to us how it intends to protect European money, given this ruling of their Constitutional Court. Because in the coming years, we will be investing EUR 2.100 billion with the Multiannual Budget and the NextGenerationEU recovery programme. This is European taxpayers’ money. And if our Union is investing more than ever to advance our collective recovery, we must protect the Union’s budget against breaches of the rule of law.
>The third option is the Article 7 procedure. This is the powerful tool in the Treaty. And we must come back to it. Because let me remind you: The Polish Constitutional Court that today has cast doubts on the validity of our Treaty is the same court that under Article 7 we consider not to be independent and legitimate. And this in many ways comes full circle.
>Honourable Members,
>I deeply regret that we find ourselves in this situation. I have always been a proponent of dialogue and I will always be. This is a situation that can and must be resolved. And we want a strong Poland in a united Europe. We want Poland to be at the heart of our debates in building a common future. Poland has a stake in Europe. Together, we can build a Europe that is strong and confident in a world where other big powers become more and more assertive. Europe has benefited from Poland’s unique experience so much. Without the people of Poland, our European journey would have been very different.
>When Karol Wojtyła, as Pope John Paul II, went to his homeland, he changed European history forever. When Lech Wałęsa with a scattered group of trade unionists overcame a mighty army, we saw the beginning of the fall of the Iron Curtain. And when President Lech Kaczyński ratified the Lisbon Treaty together with the Charter of Fundamental Rights, he reaffirmed Poland’s commitment to our values. Polish people have played a fundamental role in making our Union whole, in enabling their homeland to thrive as a vital part of our Union. And they will always be.
>Polsko, jesteś i zawsze będziesz w sercu Europy!
>Niech żyje Polska!
>Niech żyje Europa!
>Poland, you are and you will always be at the heart of Europe.
>Long live Poland and long live Europe!
From a serious newspaper “[What did EU officials say?](https://www.dw.com/en/polish-pm-faces-eu-questions-over-controversial-court-ruling/a-59545038)
>European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen told EU lawmakers on Monday that she was “deeply concerned” over the developments in Poland.
>
>She also shared her remarks on Twitter. She went on to mention the “Article 7 procedure” as a “powerful tool” to deal with violations from member states. Article 7 allows the EU to remove certain rights of member states, including stripping them of their voting rights.”
“vows to punish” seems overly dramatic and politically charged.
This is bs.
Every memeber states have challenged supremacy of EU laws. This is why we have become a joke since there in no clear cut answer and as always EU has a million exception and exemptions.
And the EU will punish Poland with some VERY strong words about crap nobody cares about while continuing to fund the Government and buying natural gas from Russia.
Im conflicted honestly. The Polish gomernvment are doing shit just to skirt and abuse EU regulations. But on the other hand i sure as hell dont want a more authoritarian EU that meddles with nations internal laws and affairs more than it does today.
Can someone explain the governance the EU has on its members. Like are the Laws the EU makes just for the governments of the members and those countries can make their own laws for their citizens, or are the EU laws a mix of government laws and civilian laws?
I’m just curious on how that all works and here seems like a good place to ask.
Well, they have already used carrots. Now its time for a stick.
Let me get one thing straight – the Polish Constitution vs TSUE legal precedence issue is actually just a smokescreen for Polish govt and their authoritarian aspirations.
As MEP Sikorski rightly put it – the **real issue** at hand is that it is Kaczyński and co. that violate the provisions of both European Treaties AND Polish Constitution (Article 173 thereof, to be precise) in the first place, by appointing so-called Izba Dyscyplinarna (Disciplinary Chamber) in order to punish lawfully elected judges that could become disobedient towards the ruling coalition and its members.
The very existence of the Disciplinary Chamber is illegal and non-compliant with the democratic principle of the separation of judicial and legislative powers, making the ruling PMs practically immune to the national jurisdiction.
Many Polish citizens are aware of this, hence abundant protests calling for upholding both constitutional and European law. The problem is, PiS has already taken over a number of major media outlets in the country, thus silencing the narrative of those who want to counteract their Kremlin-inspired goals and policies.
Multi-Speed European integration…. Can anyone tell me why isn’t that the way?
Hey other Europeans, just wanted to say that maany (probably most of young generation) people doesn’t agree with our terrible government. They just keep winning the elections by bribing poor voters with a little bit of money while stealing twice as much behind backs. Please don’t judge polish people through the prism of our government.
Most of the people commenting here have zero understanding of the issue at hand. Just pure ignorance and stupidity.
I have no dog in this fight as an American. But here’s my unrequested analysis:
While great in many respects, the EU has a documented democratic deficit. Because the EU has a democratic deficit, when you have an issue with the EU, it’s tough to do anything because you can’t hold the organization accountable; simply, you can’t vote people out and no one you vote for can even introduce legislation to reverse what you disagree with. Originally, the EU was an organization founded to regulate a bunch of non-politically sensitive and highly technical industries, but things have changed overtime; the EU has displayed a trend to expand its reach into new spheres and grow as an organization toward greater integration. If you aren’t on board with this trend, you are powerless to stop it. The only thing you can do is leave if your disagreements outweigh your willingness to stay. Britain did just that. Poland isn’t on board with integration into certain politically sensitive areas, but it still wants to remain part of the EU. Unfortunately, it’s powerless to change the EU’s direction. I think tensions can only escalate unless you see a massive shift in Polish opinion on certain sensitive issues like gay rights and religion.
Poland has serious issues with the independence of its judiciary. I haven’t read the relevant Polish judicial opinion, but my first impression is that it seems like when there is a conflict in law between the Polish Constitution and the EU’s statute or regulation, the constitution should win out and require an amendment. I don’t know whether the opinion is influenced by the lack of independence, and even if it is, whether it is without merit.
Basically, I don’t see an off-ramp for this conflict.
VDL also upset about Cyberpunk 2077 and how it runs on PS4.
[Video](https://youtu.be/9CVxFzLmerc) of Ursula’s speech
How exactly is the Polish constitutional court controversy worse than the recent Karlsruhe decision?
Under the principal of subsidiarity the EU cannot introduce law where the member states already legislate for, but EU law is superior in areas where it has an explicit competence. For example, trade. This was recognised by the Polish government and the court. On the other had, the Karlsuhe ruling seemed to suggest EU law is inferior to German law in areas where it has a clear competence, and in that case it was monetary policy.
If anyone could enlighten me, I would appreciate it!
Say what you want about the EU but if we start making our laws that override the union’s it’s all over.
Doing nothing germany hasn’t already done re the supremacy of constitutional law.
Or basic law as its termed in Germany.
I am Polish and I am really worried about my future. I don’t want to live under Law and Justice’s dictatorship for the rest of my life.
Maybe it’s time to learn Norwegian.
It’s stuff like this that makes people think the EU wants to take over their country.
Well state tv had transmision with 5 min delay and they would only show supporting voices for this and talk throught all negative thing it was all done to fuel internal propaganda.
The title is misleading.
This is not about supremacy of EU law over Polish law, this is about rules and agreements (free press, free law, etc) that Poland agreed to when it joined the EU.
It is not about punishment but if Poland does not want to follow the rules and agreements that it signed up to when it joined the EU, why should the EU sponsor the Polish government with 125 Billion euro each year?
Friendly reminder that Article 7 requires unanimity and that Hungary will veto it before the paper hits the table. The commission is using strong language to mask impotence.
So far it’s just words and no action.
Divide and conquer.
They’ll be following us out of the fourth reich at this rate!