UN top court rules German military aid to Israel can continue | DW News

UN top court rules German military aid to Israel can continue | DW News

the un’s top court has rejected a request by Nicaragua to order Germany to stop sending weapons and other military aid to Israel the international court of justice in the ha ruled that legal conditions for making that kind of order simply have not been met Nicaragua argues that by supplying weapons to Israel Germany is facilitating genocide in Gaza during the hearings the German government said that it had barely exported weapons to Israel since the offensive started following the October 7th Terror attacks by Hamas all right for some legal analysis now I’m joined by Sir Jeffrey nice he worked at the international criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia between 1998 and 2006 and he led the prosecution of sanan mosovich the former president of Serbia Mr Nice it’s good to have you with us again um am I reading this correctly that the the court today said that it looked at the facts and based on the facts at this time it cannot give um Nicaragua what it wanted completely correct it’s a sort of in a way it’s a sort of holding judgment it certainly doesn’t achieve for Nicaragua what it wanted to achieve but it does little else in way of favoring one side or other of this horrible conflict it did Identify two things first that Nicaragua can press ahead with its case um against Israel against Germany if it wishes to on the basis that Germany may have uh become involved in the supply of arms for uh use in what is an unlawful what may be an unlawful con conduct of conflict but not at this stage sufficient evidence to prove a need for protective measures and it also left uh without comment the vulnerability of States generally to IC and icj international court of justice jurisdiction for for example provision of arms to Israel for its conduct of the war yeah so it was a bit of a holy judgment yeah I want to pick up on that in just a moment but I just want to be clear this case um continues and does does that mean that the court could eventually rule against Germany at a later stage Nicaragua’s case against Germany which alleges breaches of the genocide convention by Germany in respect of its provision of weapons can continue whether that will actually happen I think is a matter for future consideration but it can continue because Germany tried to have it taken off the list of the Court’s cases and the court refused what what’s your read on this Mr Nice do you think that um this is basically you know the end of this case I don’t know whether it’s the end of this case um and I’m not sure that I have an overall view but it leaves states that are supplying weapons to Israel uh in the position that they know they may be pursued at the international court of justice by any other state that’s a party the genocide convention if that other state is able to establish that the subject state is in the possession of knowledge knowing it knows that its weapons may be used for unlawful conduct of War so um that’s one part of the redard the other part I think is that and this is quite a helpful thing from Germany’s point of view but also from the point of view of other countries it’s really saying don’t jump too soon could be said of Nicaragua as I believe it’s been said in respect of alleged uh Reflection by Nicaragua of Russian interest that it’s jumped too soon it’s tried with insufficient evidence but almost on emotional grounds to bring this case against Germany and what we all have to do is to detach ourselves from the high emotions that can be generated by this awful conflict and just look at the evidence and I think that perhaps the most valuable element of this judgment overall and on for both sides is to set aside the emotion look at the evidence is there unlawful conflict if there is unlawful conflict who’s to who’s to bear respons responsibility is it didn’t the court isn’t the court doing exactly that the the court today in its ruling said that it noted that Germany had reduced significantly the amount and value of weapons that it has sent to Israel since the October Hamas Terror attacks I mean as proof that Germany is not trying to arm a country to commit genocide that’s a non-emotional observation correct well I found the order pretty thin both when I listened to it and then when I eventually found it on the website it recites the allegations it recites the history of Germany’s provisions of Weaponry both its various licenses that are required the weapons provided and the weapons requested to be granted a license I think a submarine and some other aircraft I think for which no provision no licenses have yet been granted and to that extent it certainly seemed to have given a decision based on Germany’s conduct but it doesn’t say it in terms it simply sets out the evidence that Germany is providing and says in light of all this no there’s not enough evidence and that’s why I go back to the original position I think this is a holding position and in a way it’s quite a clever thing for the court to have done because of because it can’t go it can’t reverse the earlier decision made in January brought as a result of what South Africa did right so it respects that but it doesn’t change the position very much but it warns everyone they’ve got to honor the Geneva Convention if they’re signed up to the genocide convention if they’re signed up to it let me let me pick up this um the case with South Africa I’m just to remind our viewers South Africa is accusing Israel of perpetuating genocide in the Gaza Strip the court has called on Israel to do everything in its power to prevent genocide so does that mean that Israel may be found to have committed genocide in Gaza I mean is that question still to be answered no it doesn’t um and it’s understandable that the shorthand in the in the words of journalists and commentators is that there was a plausible case of genocide established no what the court found was that there was a plausible by the way the word plausible is not defined it’s a word used by the international court of justice not by other courts there was a plausible case for finding that the rights of the gazan people not to suffer genocide were at risk of potentially immediate uh imperilment MH so it was very slightly different but significantly different from a finding of plausible genocide being committed that has not been found okay and it’s very important for uh listeners and viewers to understand that and it’s the way these readings Advance slowly I want to ask you before we run out of time Mr Nice the US media reporting that the international criminal court May issue an arrest warrant for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu U we just we don’t have much time here I just want to ask do you think that that will happen it begins to look as though the warrant may be issued that’s very good news not because it’s particularly issued against Netanyahu I don’t express an opinion about that but because it shows that the international court is not going to be intimidated in doing its job in respect of leaders great small supported and not supported So to that extent it’s good news whether it’s going to be issued or not I don’t know but it’s beginning to look as though it’s quite likely okay and that I think is also good news when measured against what may be said about the international criminal court that it has been very slow over the last decade or so to conduct investigations to say things about the state of Israel okay um it’s been very slow and now perhaps it’s realizing that its reputation is going to be dependent on buing by on being seen by the public at large to do its job regardless of who the alleged offender may be okay sir Jeffrey nice as always Mr Nice it’s good to have you with us we appreciate your analysis tonight thank you you’re most welcome all right let’s talk more about what happened today I’m joined Now by Michael Becker he’s assistant professor of international human rights law at Trinity College in Dublin he’s a former legal adviser to a judge at the international court of justice Mr Becker it’s good to to have you with us you know the the Court’s president today said that based on the factual information and the legal arguments that were presented the court concludes that the circumstances are not as such as to require the exercise of its power does that mean the court agrees with what Germany was claiming here well it’s it’s it’s not quite as cut and dry as that uh for one thing it’s interesting to note this was not a close call for the court so this was a 15 to1 decision ruling against Nicaragua’s request here um but what’s I think significant is that this was a decision that turned on the facts so we have very little legal reasoning in the Court’s decision this really came down to the court finding that Germany during its presentation earlier this month had put forward sufficient factual information to really undermine and call into question many of Nicaragua’s allegations and accusations some of which appeared to be based on incorrect information and maybe came off a little bit like exaggerations which I think didn’t play very well in front of the court and bearing that in mind this case however is is not over correct absolutely this was only about seeking what we call provisional measures so kind of interim relief while the case is pending and Nicaragua was asking the court to order Germany among other things to immediately cease all weapons shipments arms shipments to Israel what’s quite important here and this was in your leadin part of Germany’s uh defense was to say well actually uh since at least late October we have not been sending any significant amount of war weapons to Israel so Germany having made that repres representation to the court um I think it it actually does uh put a constraint on Germany in terms of uh changing course and resuming that but you’re absolutely right this was only about provisional measures the court continues Germany will have now a chance to challenge the Court’s Jurisdiction and admissibility which they surely will do and if it goes ahead Nicaragua will have the opportunity to put forward a much Fuller record that challenges some of Germany’s assertions at this stage about the robust framework that Germany has in place to provide oversight over its weapon sales so that that means Germany could still be found to have facilitated genocide in Gaza correct that’s correct and it’s not only about uh facilitating genocide or failing to prevent genocide which is probably the slightly lower bar to clear this is important this isn’t only a case like the South Africa Israel case this isn’t only about the genocide convention Nicaragua also claims that uh Germany is uh in violation of international humanitarian law by doing things or failing to do certain things to ensure respect for international humanitarian law by Israel so by the idea is that by sending weapons to Israel You’re facilitating uh violations of international humanitarian law that’s an issue that will remain in the case and it will now be for Nicaragua to try to show which they weren’t able to do at this initial stage try to show that all of Germany’s representations about how Germany exercises a high degree of due diligence to prevent weapons shipments from being used to violate international law Nicaragua now has the burden of trying to show that actually as applied or as implemented um that that regul that regulatory framework isn’t enough let me pick up on that the other case you mentioned with South Africa South Africa is accusing Israel of perpetuating genocide in Gaza the court has called on Israel to do everything in its power to prevent genocide so what does that say to you does it say that Israel could eventually be found guilty well that a decision on that question in the South Africa versus Israel case is a long ways away we now have two sets of provisional measures in that case so unlike the Nicaragua case where the court rejected that request the court has twice indicated provisional measures against Israel and the last time I think the the rhetoric the language from the court was uh much stronger really deeply concerned that uh one of the judges refers to all the alarm bells of of genocide going off here um so I I think we don’t know what the outcome is going to be in that case it’s very difficult to prove genocidal intent it’s very difficult to establish genocide at the level of the state that said I think that it’s probably the case that some of Israel’s actions even since South Africa first filed this case at the end of December has actually made South Africa’s case stronger rather than weakening South Africa’s arguments do you think the rulings that we have seen so far do you think they are they are going to shape the way that genocide will be defined in the future that’s a great question and I think that this case provides an important opportunity for the court to perhaps revisit the way it’s approached genocide in the past and it’s also the case that um the situation in Gaza raises aspects of the law of genocide that haven’t really been litigated in front of an international court before right now for example there’s a lot of attention on um the situation of starvation or famine in Gaza and how that might play into a finding of genocide so this case will almost truly develop the law of genocide but whether it develops the law of genocide in a way that creates a slightly more liberalized regime or or um relaxes the very exacting standard to establish genocide or not uh that’s what we’re going to have to watch out for over not only the next few months but in fact years before there’s a determination in that case Okay Michael Becker we appreciate your time and your analysis today thank you thank you

The UN’s top court has rejected a request by Nicaragua to order Germany to stop sending weapons and other military aid to Israel. The International Court of Justice in the Hague ruled that legal conditions for making such an order had not been met.

Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:34 Geoffrey Nice, Barrister
09:59 Michael Becker, Assistant Human Rights Law Professor

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