Sure, seeing a Taiwanese flag is grounds for discrimination. Give over like. You are on Irish soil not pampered by the CCP. Thats not the reason you failed a test, much in the same way that if I saw a ‘Southern Ireland’ name with a union jack before a test, it would not make me fail a test because its a test, not a morality question. Complain but don’t use it as the reason for failing a test.
A hard no. Having worked with international students the amount of faked documents is alarming. Shortcuts and faking it is the name of the game. Learning a language is difficult and learning it by rote is never going to work and this is how they do it in China. Actual lived China experience here.
> According to sources familiar with the case, one of the main problems for the students, who were attending UCC’s business school, was their difficulties with the English language.
I was on a masters with a Chinese lad, his English was terrible. No way he completed the English competency test himself. Mid term the College even gave him the option to defer for a year so he could improve his English (any classmate that talked to him advised him to jump on that offer). For whatever reason (I suspect pressure from back home) he ploughed on, got caught cheating on an exam and was turfed out. I felt sorry for the guy.
I don’t know how there are so many Chinese students at UCC who can speak little to no English. I understand getting a degree in Europe is seen as something of a status symbol in China, but you’d think someone studying in an Anglophone country and taking classes in English would have enough English to be able to engage with it.
I love having international students here, and they add a lot to the city and university- but when there are A LOT of students who speak almost no English and are still taking classes taught in English, it’s a hindrance to the other students as well. My course consists of a lot of group assignments as well as debate/discussion in class, so if there’s let’s say two people in a group of four who can’t speak enough English to engage with the material, it affects everyone’s grades because we simply can’t do enough of the work together.
In fairness though, Irish students also do the same thing when on erasmus. They can’t speak a word (or very very little) of the local language but still take classes in that language thinking that they’ll be given some kind of special accomodation just for not being a native speaker, as if that’s how it works lol. If you go to university in another country and choose to take classes in the native language, they’re going to assume that you’re fluent enough to keep up in class, they’re not going to treat you differently just for being an international student.
I’m not saying I expect every single international student to have a C2 in English their first day in Ireland. But I don’t like that our universities are basically treating international students, and particularly Chinese students as cash cows. I don’t know how all these Chinese students who speak almost no English even got into UCC in the first place- did they just cheat/lie on their applications? Or are the English requirements just ridiculously low? I know that a lot of universities on the continent have stupidly low language requirements to take classes in the native language (some universities in Spain for example only ask for an A2 in Spanish to take classes in Spanish) so maybe it’s the same here? In which case, it’s a symptom of the broader problem of treating international students as cash cows.
If they don’t want to learn enough English before sitting exams or acknowledge Taiwan then studying in Ireland is not the right choice for them.
Also from the article:
An investigation is underway into the treatment of a lecturer who was at the centre of the complaint from the students.
An email circulated in the university contained allegations of racism against the lecturer for which there was no evidence.
“The lecturer was hung out to dry because the authorities in the college are scared stiff of losing Chinese students,” one source explained.
Demanding to retake the exam in China lol. Get fucked
>The Irish Examiner understands the exam failed by the students was the only one in which full exam conditions for written work applied.
After reading the full report I really hope UCC don’t buckle. That’s crazy what they want… An Irish degree completed in china in Chinese…
“such a policy, the students complain, “gives priority to some students based on their scores, which is unfair and non-humanitarian, and it is a great psychological harm to the students who scored less than 25 marks””
!?!
Are they honestly arguing that grading students differently based on their exam score is discriminatory? Feck off!
I used to teach tutorials with chinese students. They never did the work which meant there couldnt be a discussion. Halfway through the year they complained the tutorials were too short.
Irish in Taiwan here- the education system here is not so different from the mainland.
And it’s pretty brutal. Insane pressure on students academically. But a terrible English teaching system, in many schools.
When I was an efl teacher, in some schools kids were not allowed to fail- because the parents would be angry.
So if they fail test we simply give it to them again. And again. And th3n wrote the answers on the board. And then literally sat beside them and spoon fed them the answers.
So the poor kids keep moving up grades and just getting more lost and further behind.
Re: the one china/taiwan flag thing- word here is that the current Chinese youth is *extremely* indoctrinated, and it’s a bit nuts.
Maybe these students shouldn’t go to a country where they barely know the language and get so winded up about a bloody flag
Their problem
They failed because they weren’t allowed to cheat and the exams are less based on rote learning and memorizing useless bullshit
Everyone knows Chinese academics is a joke, they have lots of talent but you can’t trust their research it’s heavily plagiarised and cheating is ingrained in their culture as there is no shame attached to it. It’s seen as being clever and getting ahead.
I hate defending tenured lecturers, but this is why you have external examiners go over the tail ends of the marking distribution, and some other scores in the middle. If they sign off on it, it’s fair game as far as the discipline is concerned.
Seems like even the students’ complaint is a half hearted effort with little evidence or examples. Must try harder!
I used to live with a Chinese guy when I was doing my masters in an Anglophone country. He was a very nice guy but his English was horrendous. Talking to him was like chatting to a bot. Lads on his course said his technical skills were solid but he didn’t have the English to apply it or function on the course.
I felt sorry for him being let in at all as he was under horrendous strain from it.
Ridiculous to complain about the Taiwan flag though. Wonder if we’ll have any of the usual lads who pop up whenever anyone criticises the Chinese government.
i was doing a masters at ucc and there was a chinese student in my course who didnt even speak english. ive no idea how he did the exams
I’ve been assigned to group projects with Chinese students in computer science. They were complete dead weight because their English was almost non existent and they had no interest in trying to communicate with others. I can’t understand how they were passing modules either. I’d say they’re more than likely the beneficiaries of discrimination being allowed to obtain degrees that they wouldn’t on their own merit just because they were paying well over the odds for their degrees.
I’ve been through the stress of teaching uni exam
prep to Chinese students and they mostly want to do it their way only, so I’m not surprised to read this.
Do they not have to do an IELTS test for entry though? Some of the issues with this is that universities lower the IELTS test score to ensure they get the € from the international fees. If that’s the case, it’s not surprising that these messes happen; what is expected of students doesn’t equal their level of competency.
Seems like they were caught out where they couldn’t just turn in some continuous assessment work. I’ve been on courses with people who didn’t speak much English but we’re able to turn in well written and researched papers at the drop of a hat.
International student quality and grades a huge problem in Australia too.
Interestingly enough every international student, whether from Europe or elsewhere, has to pass an English competency test to be accepted. When I came to UCD from Germany I had a lot of Chinese students who spoke little to no English, sat in class with a transcription app running that would translate the words of a lecturer into chinese, several large cases of collective cheating and multiple instances of plagiarism. A lot of these students hire someone else to do their English test for them, do the prep work for the application and also do their homeworks and written assignments. This obviously is tough to do with in person exams returning and uncovers a lot of cases that would have gone unnoticed the last few years. Truly a shame
I was a class rep in WIT (prior to the SETU merger) for a while. Had international students come to me complaining about their grades being bad and their basis for arguing was that they ‘paid more’ to be there. I gave them a sift bolocking about how grading in the real world works and told them if they have an issue to bring it up with the department head who himself told them where to shove it thankfully.
I work in another Dublin University in Engineering and we have pretty high records of international students cheating. Don’t know how they pass their English exams to get in because many can’t hold conversations.
Obviously have to say that many are great workers and a pleasure to work with. We have plenty of Irish students who fail but haven’t caught any cheating so blatantly.
25 comments
Sure, seeing a Taiwanese flag is grounds for discrimination. Give over like. You are on Irish soil not pampered by the CCP. Thats not the reason you failed a test, much in the same way that if I saw a ‘Southern Ireland’ name with a union jack before a test, it would not make me fail a test because its a test, not a morality question. Complain but don’t use it as the reason for failing a test.
A hard no. Having worked with international students the amount of faked documents is alarming. Shortcuts and faking it is the name of the game. Learning a language is difficult and learning it by rote is never going to work and this is how they do it in China. Actual lived China experience here.
> According to sources familiar with the case, one of the main problems for the students, who were attending UCC’s business school, was their difficulties with the English language.
I was on a masters with a Chinese lad, his English was terrible. No way he completed the English competency test himself. Mid term the College even gave him the option to defer for a year so he could improve his English (any classmate that talked to him advised him to jump on that offer). For whatever reason (I suspect pressure from back home) he ploughed on, got caught cheating on an exam and was turfed out. I felt sorry for the guy.
I don’t know how there are so many Chinese students at UCC who can speak little to no English. I understand getting a degree in Europe is seen as something of a status symbol in China, but you’d think someone studying in an Anglophone country and taking classes in English would have enough English to be able to engage with it.
I love having international students here, and they add a lot to the city and university- but when there are A LOT of students who speak almost no English and are still taking classes taught in English, it’s a hindrance to the other students as well. My course consists of a lot of group assignments as well as debate/discussion in class, so if there’s let’s say two people in a group of four who can’t speak enough English to engage with the material, it affects everyone’s grades because we simply can’t do enough of the work together.
In fairness though, Irish students also do the same thing when on erasmus. They can’t speak a word (or very very little) of the local language but still take classes in that language thinking that they’ll be given some kind of special accomodation just for not being a native speaker, as if that’s how it works lol. If you go to university in another country and choose to take classes in the native language, they’re going to assume that you’re fluent enough to keep up in class, they’re not going to treat you differently just for being an international student.
I’m not saying I expect every single international student to have a C2 in English their first day in Ireland. But I don’t like that our universities are basically treating international students, and particularly Chinese students as cash cows. I don’t know how all these Chinese students who speak almost no English even got into UCC in the first place- did they just cheat/lie on their applications? Or are the English requirements just ridiculously low? I know that a lot of universities on the continent have stupidly low language requirements to take classes in the native language (some universities in Spain for example only ask for an A2 in Spanish to take classes in Spanish) so maybe it’s the same here? In which case, it’s a symptom of the broader problem of treating international students as cash cows.
If they don’t want to learn enough English before sitting exams or acknowledge Taiwan then studying in Ireland is not the right choice for them.
Also from the article:
An investigation is underway into the treatment of a lecturer who was at the centre of the complaint from the students.
An email circulated in the university contained allegations of racism against the lecturer for which there was no evidence.
“The lecturer was hung out to dry because the authorities in the college are scared stiff of losing Chinese students,” one source explained.
lol the excuses, just say you didnt study
https://i.redd.it/ti1v3h8hxc0d1.gif
Demanding to retake the exam in China lol. Get fucked
>The Irish Examiner understands the exam failed by the students was the only one in which full exam conditions for written work applied.
After reading the full report I really hope UCC don’t buckle. That’s crazy what they want… An Irish degree completed in china in Chinese…
“such a policy, the students complain, “gives priority to some students based on their scores, which is unfair and non-humanitarian, and it is a great psychological harm to the students who scored less than 25 marks””
!?!
Are they honestly arguing that grading students differently based on their exam score is discriminatory? Feck off!
I used to teach tutorials with chinese students. They never did the work which meant there couldnt be a discussion. Halfway through the year they complained the tutorials were too short.
Irish in Taiwan here- the education system here is not so different from the mainland.
And it’s pretty brutal. Insane pressure on students academically. But a terrible English teaching system, in many schools.
When I was an efl teacher, in some schools kids were not allowed to fail- because the parents would be angry.
So if they fail test we simply give it to them again. And again. And th3n wrote the answers on the board. And then literally sat beside them and spoon fed them the answers.
So the poor kids keep moving up grades and just getting more lost and further behind.
Re: the one china/taiwan flag thing- word here is that the current Chinese youth is *extremely* indoctrinated, and it’s a bit nuts.
Maybe these students shouldn’t go to a country where they barely know the language and get so winded up about a bloody flag
Their problem
They failed because they weren’t allowed to cheat and the exams are less based on rote learning and memorizing useless bullshit
Everyone knows Chinese academics is a joke, they have lots of talent but you can’t trust their research it’s heavily plagiarised and cheating is ingrained in their culture as there is no shame attached to it. It’s seen as being clever and getting ahead.
I hate defending tenured lecturers, but this is why you have external examiners go over the tail ends of the marking distribution, and some other scores in the middle. If they sign off on it, it’s fair game as far as the discipline is concerned.
Seems like even the students’ complaint is a half hearted effort with little evidence or examples. Must try harder!
I used to live with a Chinese guy when I was doing my masters in an Anglophone country. He was a very nice guy but his English was horrendous. Talking to him was like chatting to a bot. Lads on his course said his technical skills were solid but he didn’t have the English to apply it or function on the course.
I felt sorry for him being let in at all as he was under horrendous strain from it.
Ridiculous to complain about the Taiwan flag though. Wonder if we’ll have any of the usual lads who pop up whenever anyone criticises the Chinese government.
i was doing a masters at ucc and there was a chinese student in my course who didnt even speak english. ive no idea how he did the exams
I’ve been assigned to group projects with Chinese students in computer science. They were complete dead weight because their English was almost non existent and they had no interest in trying to communicate with others. I can’t understand how they were passing modules either. I’d say they’re more than likely the beneficiaries of discrimination being allowed to obtain degrees that they wouldn’t on their own merit just because they were paying well over the odds for their degrees.
I’ve been through the stress of teaching uni exam
prep to Chinese students and they mostly want to do it their way only, so I’m not surprised to read this.
Do they not have to do an IELTS test for entry though? Some of the issues with this is that universities lower the IELTS test score to ensure they get the € from the international fees. If that’s the case, it’s not surprising that these messes happen; what is expected of students doesn’t equal their level of competency.
Seems like they were caught out where they couldn’t just turn in some continuous assessment work. I’ve been on courses with people who didn’t speak much English but we’re able to turn in well written and researched papers at the drop of a hat.
International student quality and grades a huge problem in Australia too.
https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/1cqoaee/unis_in_crisis_talks_over_international_student/
Interestingly enough every international student, whether from Europe or elsewhere, has to pass an English competency test to be accepted. When I came to UCD from Germany I had a lot of Chinese students who spoke little to no English, sat in class with a transcription app running that would translate the words of a lecturer into chinese, several large cases of collective cheating and multiple instances of plagiarism. A lot of these students hire someone else to do their English test for them, do the prep work for the application and also do their homeworks and written assignments. This obviously is tough to do with in person exams returning and uncovers a lot of cases that would have gone unnoticed the last few years. Truly a shame
I was a class rep in WIT (prior to the SETU merger) for a while. Had international students come to me complaining about their grades being bad and their basis for arguing was that they ‘paid more’ to be there. I gave them a sift bolocking about how grading in the real world works and told them if they have an issue to bring it up with the department head who himself told them where to shove it thankfully.
I work in another Dublin University in Engineering and we have pretty high records of international students cheating. Don’t know how they pass their English exams to get in because many can’t hold conversations.
Obviously have to say that many are great workers and a pleasure to work with. We have plenty of Irish students who fail but haven’t caught any cheating so blatantly.