People have been waking up to the issues surrounding Europe’s declining birth rate, but this is really the crux of the problem. If the birth rate remains low and Europe is unable or unwilling to increase immigration, then its hopes seem to rest on automation – a perilous gamble.
There are many potential immigrants willing to work for us. It’s straightforward.
Why on earth would you use absolute values to combine entities with vastly different populations…
EDIT: I have no idea why this is getting downvoted, this graph is absolutely terrible and doesn’t even show the decrease for the whole EU.
Does that mean less unemployment in Europe and more you-are-fired stuff in Murica?
For reference Denmark is raising the pension age from 67 to 74 years.
… yaay … progress …
Everyone I know is saving up in private pensions schemes so they can retire early – cause screw that.
There will be problems but eventually it will stabilize, no? Or does everyone want infinite growth
Therefore employers will have to fight for workers, and the only way to do this is by raising wages.
This is the normal flow of the labour market, distorting it in favour of employers with immigration will just extend the ponzi scheme a bit in decrement of our wages.
Not even with twice the amount of migrants we currently get this trend can be stopped and our population is already very angry at it, its simply not sustainable. Businesses will need to innovate and fast
so more jobs?
Isn’t the Us also suffering a massive decline in their birth rate
This subreddit is the greatest real time example of why Europe is where it is but also whats pushed on Reddit / TikTok in general.
It’s hard to say anything here without being immediately downvoted but I’ll just say it (while walking on eggshells) that what Asia and America has is very different from what Europe now has, used to not have. Just a totally different way of viewing the world, the workforce, the dream of innovation, making it big, going from poverty to extreme wealth and believing yeah, I can do it, I just have to work really hard.
If Europe went backward a bit on how people viewed work along with less regulation, lower corporate tax like France is doing, Poland has been doing.. yeah, we’ll be a lot more competitive against the US and Asia. But the biggest factor in many economies are the people themselves, the workforce.
It’s not just the governments fault anotherwords.
Italians and Germans are the most vocal about immigration, how is the workforce shrinking?
Most countries on this chart are destinations for EU citizens to migrate to or work. The other countries will fare much worse, their workforce will be depleted not only by aging but emigration too.
Let’s take as many good immigrants as possible. Southern Americans (especially from Argentina, Uruguay, Colombia, Brazil), Sikhs, Vietnamese, South Koreans, etc…
Rest can go to Russia.
Oh it’s probably much worse than that if you adjust for immigration and emigration.
Europe is suffering from braindrain, not just rapid aging.
I looked a few things up, and found at least a small glimpse of hope: what you see in this graph is not only due to migration, it’s largely because the US had birthrates above 2 until 2008, whereas for example in Germany it was below 1.4. However in 2021, Germany and the US were almost equal at around 1.6. Birthrates in the US are decreasing, in Germany they were increasing. (However due to the housing crisis and other issues, this might not continue)
On the plus side we no longer hear the “Robots are stealing jobs” blullshit.
On a side note, these charts or maps include EU countries only — understandably, considering the EU due to sheer economy size is a direct competitor of the US. And as such, they leave out the UK.
This cannot be without a long-term effect on their soft power, which helps them to continue to punch above their weight. When regular (i.e. geopolitically inept) people stop seeing UK juxtaposed in these comparisons, they’ll just assume UK stopped being important. They don’t care it is an implied EU vs US comparison. They see Ireland, the don’t see UK, hence Ireland is important-er?
We can argue about financial outcome of Brexit, can’t really tell for sure, we’ve all read these preemptive dystopian/success numbers. But trying to start „own club” and becoming somewhat of a butt joke in the process clearly already took its toll on their reputation.
Maps, graphs, etc. omissions are just another one of the seemingly unimportant butterfly effects they’ll only notice once exacerbated further down the line.
And I am noticing only because Poland actually gets to be included in these as of recently. Tables literally turn, I guess?
They want you to work until you’re 70, but nobody will hire you if you’re over 50.
Seriously are there any other ways to maintain workforce without getting migrants from outside? Not talking only for europe and I mean some great incentives for families to have babies…
5 years from now nobody will be talking about birth rates and working population sizes.
The world is going from Carbon based labor to Silicon based and it is happening fast.
Lack of workers is not going to be an issue any longer and certainly not on the timelines that are feared in this chart.
Yet people are constantly working in Europe…
I thought you guys did things better down in Europe?????
Otherwise your workforce wouldn’t be shrinking. It’s most likely people leaving because it sucks.
And it probably sucks because the Germans are the majority in the EU parliament.
22 comments
Source: [The Financial Times – Can Europe’s economy ever hope to rival the US again?](https://www.ft.com/content/93f88255-787b-4c06-849c-f7722c83e8b6)
People have been waking up to the issues surrounding Europe’s declining birth rate, but this is really the crux of the problem. If the birth rate remains low and Europe is unable or unwilling to increase immigration, then its hopes seem to rest on automation – a perilous gamble.
There are many potential immigrants willing to work for us. It’s straightforward.
Why on earth would you use absolute values to combine entities with vastly different populations…
EDIT: I have no idea why this is getting downvoted, this graph is absolutely terrible and doesn’t even show the decrease for the whole EU.
Does that mean less unemployment in Europe and more you-are-fired stuff in Murica?
For reference Denmark is raising the pension age from 67 to 74 years.
… yaay … progress …
Everyone I know is saving up in private pensions schemes so they can retire early – cause screw that.
There will be problems but eventually it will stabilize, no? Or does everyone want infinite growth
Therefore employers will have to fight for workers, and the only way to do this is by raising wages.
This is the normal flow of the labour market, distorting it in favour of employers with immigration will just extend the ponzi scheme a bit in decrement of our wages.
Not even with twice the amount of migrants we currently get this trend can be stopped and our population is already very angry at it, its simply not sustainable. Businesses will need to innovate and fast
so more jobs?
Isn’t the Us also suffering a massive decline in their birth rate
This subreddit is the greatest real time example of why Europe is where it is but also whats pushed on Reddit / TikTok in general.
It’s hard to say anything here without being immediately downvoted but I’ll just say it (while walking on eggshells) that what Asia and America has is very different from what Europe now has, used to not have. Just a totally different way of viewing the world, the workforce, the dream of innovation, making it big, going from poverty to extreme wealth and believing yeah, I can do it, I just have to work really hard.
If Europe went backward a bit on how people viewed work along with less regulation, lower corporate tax like France is doing, Poland has been doing.. yeah, we’ll be a lot more competitive against the US and Asia. But the biggest factor in many economies are the people themselves, the workforce.
It’s not just the governments fault anotherwords.
Italians and Germans are the most vocal about immigration, how is the workforce shrinking?
Most countries on this chart are destinations for EU citizens to migrate to or work. The other countries will fare much worse, their workforce will be depleted not only by aging but emigration too.
Let’s take as many good immigrants as possible. Southern Americans (especially from Argentina, Uruguay, Colombia, Brazil), Sikhs, Vietnamese, South Koreans, etc…
Rest can go to Russia.
Oh it’s probably much worse than that if you adjust for immigration and emigration.
Europe is suffering from braindrain, not just rapid aging.
I looked a few things up, and found at least a small glimpse of hope: what you see in this graph is not only due to migration, it’s largely because the US had birthrates above 2 until 2008, whereas for example in Germany it was below 1.4. However in 2021, Germany and the US were almost equal at around 1.6. Birthrates in the US are decreasing, in Germany they were increasing. (However due to the housing crisis and other issues, this might not continue)
On the plus side we no longer hear the “Robots are stealing jobs” blullshit.
On a side note, these charts or maps include EU countries only — understandably, considering the EU due to sheer economy size is a direct competitor of the US. And as such, they leave out the UK.
This cannot be without a long-term effect on their soft power, which helps them to continue to punch above their weight. When regular (i.e. geopolitically inept) people stop seeing UK juxtaposed in these comparisons, they’ll just assume UK stopped being important. They don’t care it is an implied EU vs US comparison. They see Ireland, the don’t see UK, hence Ireland is important-er?
We can argue about financial outcome of Brexit, can’t really tell for sure, we’ve all read these preemptive dystopian/success numbers. But trying to start „own club” and becoming somewhat of a butt joke in the process clearly already took its toll on their reputation.
Maps, graphs, etc. omissions are just another one of the seemingly unimportant butterfly effects they’ll only notice once exacerbated further down the line.
And I am noticing only because Poland actually gets to be included in these as of recently. Tables literally turn, I guess?
They want you to work until you’re 70, but nobody will hire you if you’re over 50.
Seriously are there any other ways to maintain workforce without getting migrants from outside? Not talking only for europe and I mean some great incentives for families to have babies…
5 years from now nobody will be talking about birth rates and working population sizes.
The world is going from Carbon based labor to Silicon based and it is happening fast.
Lack of workers is not going to be an issue any longer and certainly not on the timelines that are feared in this chart.
Yet people are constantly working in Europe…
I thought you guys did things better down in Europe?????
Otherwise your workforce wouldn’t be shrinking. It’s most likely people leaving because it sucks.
And it probably sucks because the Germans are the majority in the EU parliament.