Ukrainian special forces hunt down Putin’s troops north of Kharkiv with The Times’s Maxim Tucker

Ukrainian special forces hunt down Putin’s troops north of Kharkiv with The Times’s Maxim Tucker

uh we were with a a Border guard unit so not regular army but a Special Forces Unit of the Border guard um and the commander of that Border guard unit they’re actually called the pey blinders um he is a Lipsy native so he knows every inch of this terrain um he cycled all these roads all the dirt tracks as as a child so he knows exactly where to find the Russians where they’ll be um where to look for them um and so he was a pretty good guide I thought to to take us there and how close did did you get to the Russian forces so while we were in the Foxhole um we heard automatic weapons fire open up about a mile and a half to our right um which then s this team looking for the Russians they got a drone up in the air and they were hunting to try and find where the fire was coming from on the Drone we were able to watch three Ukrainian soldiers and engaging uh a platoon of of Russian infantry um and these the the Drone team were then able to send their firstperson view drones out to attack the Russians break up the attack um and then pursue them through the woods as they Tred to run away hello and welcome to front line for times radio with me K jaabo and we are joined this time from Ukraine by Maxim Tucker an editor on the times as foreign desk who was in keev and ke correspondent between 2014 and 2016 Maxim has returned to report from the front line since 2022 and he’s speaking to us now from H Maxim thank you very much for your time um we are talking Dave into a Russian probing incursion into the harke OR Blast From Russia how are things where you are in harke city so har city is under very heavy B bombardment it’s been intensified since the offensive started on Friday um there are Glide bombs coming in from Russian Jets and there are cruise missiles um hitting the city every single night um even into the afternoon sometimes um so there is very heavy bombardment of aarv City itself um but the Russians are still not within artillery range and that’s one of the concerns that is here in harv city is that if the Russians can win the battle for lip SE which is a very ferocious battle being fought in a village outside harv now they will bring be able to bring their Barrel artillery into range of the city center you’ve been outside the city can you tell me Lipsy is one of the places you have been to isn’t it can you tell us where else you’ve been where you’ve been exactly what you’ve been seeing so we were in lipy yesterday in in a foxhole with the Ukrainian Special Forces team um it’s incredibly loud there there is incoming and outgoing fire all day mortars large caliber artillery um Russian Jets coming dropping Glide bombs on Ukrainian positions um Ukrainian helicopters responding by firing rockets at at Russian positions it’s a a really really intense 21st century battle and then you also have these drone operators who were looking hunting for each other’s positions in the foliage and dropping grenades or um launching firstperson view drones to try and attack infantry on the move that that are exposed how did you get to lipine and can you tell me a bit about your journey to get to Haro blast uh so the the journey from from Kiev is is quite straightforward to ckv it’s a six-hour drive um and then it’s really a case of persuading a unit to to take you with them into the regional areas where the fighting is um there has been a a moratorium placed on on journalists um by the the the regular army so you have to kind of look for different units that might accept you and we were in touch um with a uh Special Forces team that I I know through another contact and because there’s a personal relationship there they said okay we’ll we’ll take you and show you how we work um they took us a little bit further than I thought we were going to go into into lipy um but it was a very interesting experience and we we saw firsthand how heavy the fighting is and the kind of work that they are doing um the way that they fight with drones to track Russians and to see the Russian infantry is encroaching across the fields and then how the Russians are trying to use small groups to kind of get behind Ukrainian forces this is a new tactic for the Russians they usually advance in big armored columns but theyve decided to use small groups to try and infiltrate Ukrainian positions using foliage and and the advantage of in harv region that there’s a lot of trees a lot of fields with undergrowth and and um a lot of rivers with valleys that they can hide in you told me you were in a foxhole in lip seek can you just tell me a bit more about it what was it like how many people were with you and and what were the conditions like so the team is about eight people um but they go traveling to those positions uh during the day um flying drone missions dropping dropping U Munitions on the Russians calling in um artillery strikes and looking hunting for Russians in the area uh we were with a a Border guard unit so regular army with a Special Forces Unit of the Border guard um and the commander of that Border guard unit they’re actually called the pey blinders um he is a Lipsy native so he knows every inch of this terrain um he cycled all these roads all the dirt tracks as as a child so he knows exactly where to find the Russians where they’ll be um where to look for them um and so he was a pretty good guide I thought to to take us there and how close did you get to the Russian forces so while we’re in the Foxhole um we heard automatic weapons fire open up about a mile and a half to our right um which then sent this team looking for the Russians they got a drone up in the air and they were hunting to try and find where the fire was coming from on the Drone we were able to watch three Ukrainian soldiers engaging uh a platoon of of Russian infantry um and these the the Drone team were then able to send their firstperson view drones out to attack the Russians break up the attack um and then pursue to them through the woods as they tried to run away and do you know whether the Ukrainian forces have actually managed to take any prisoners of War well the forces we were with haven’t said anything about that they haven’t discussed that we know that the Russians have taken some prisoners from the the Kraken unit a Special Forces Unit that had been sent in to help bolster the line um I think the Ukraine is is mostly fighting a rear guard action and trying to stabilize its front line there are counterattacks but I don’t think that they’re focused on on taking prisoners War as far as I can see so the situation lipy at the moment is the fact that it’s not been taken by the Russians yet but that that the Ukraine are heavily defending is that correct that’s correct and it’s it’s a really key place because if the Russians can get to the Heights in lip SE then they can bring their artillery into range of of hardk and that will make the situation very difficult for the command structure and for the the 1.5 million people that used to call hardk home many of them have already left but people will be looking to go back so U that was yesterday um where else have you been and how did it compare uh so previously we were in V Chans we joined a police um mission to evacuate civilians it’s it’s a different kind of battle because you’re you know they’re attacking the city just indiscriminately the Russians are shelling all the houses in in the in the town it’s a town of 18,000 people whereas yesterday we were in a foxhole in in a tree line basically in a set of field so it’s it’s a a different kind of warfare um I think the ukrainians are having a very hard time there because the Russians are already into the outskirts of the Town they’ve already taken some houses and are fighting through um and the ukrainians are seeking to drive them back but the thing is vchan is only three miles from the Russian border so it’s very easy for the Russians to attack the ukrainians there across the border um Fly their Jets and um nearby dropping Glide bombs and the ukrainians are struggling because there is this prohibition from the West on using weapons like attacks which could be used to hit um Russian points where they command and control points or ammunition dumps and supplies um logistical lines into hardk but they can’t do that because the US has said they wouldn’t be they’re not allowed to you uh have written about um people being evacuated from V chant can you tell us a bit more about how many people have gone and how that how difficult that has been well I think there there was the town was of 18,000 people a lot of them left during the first occupation in 201 22 uh and I think a lot of people have left of their own accord again for a second time since then uh the police told us they’d evacuated about 1500 people I think several hundred people maybe thousands of people have been evacuated by volunteers that have also come in to help the police um and we the police told us there were only about 300 people left to evacuate um and that when we were with them it was perhaps the last day that they would be doing it and be able to do it because the police are evacuating these civilians without largely without armored patrol cars um so they’re just driving very very fast into addresses where they’ve received distress calls from packing in these old ladies predominantly old ladies who who can’t get out of the Town um into their cars and then driving them out as fast as they can I mean you said predominantly old ladies the populations of these villages in these areas is is it coming down to the older generations of people what what is the what is the demographic at the moment from what you’ve seen so a lot of people have already left the The Villages of their own accord and it’s the people that struggle to both envisage a future somewhere else but also struggle to physically leave and to carry their belongings that normally remain behind and those are the police that those are the people that the police have tried to get out um you know we interviewed one lady Valentina 79 who said her granddaughter was begging her to pack her bags and she hadn’t listened because she just wanted to stay there was her home and when we went to to pick her up and we actually ended up taking her in in our car because the police car was she told us I know it’s too late I should have packed my bags and now I only have this handbag I can this all I can take with me in this moment um but I just didn’t want to leave it’s my home and she doesn’t know where she’ll go and she doesn’t know what kind of future she’ll have so you know these people always weighing up what it looks like to leave versus what it looks like to stay but when we got to her house it was clear that there was incoming Mor fire in the area around her the neighboring house was burning so she admitted it was well past time to leave and do you get the the impression that there are many people uh ukrainians who who are now trapped in that Village well I think the police have done a really good job and volunteers have done a really good job of of going into the get those people so when they get a message um of distress from someone who’s stuck and wants to go out they do go in and they risk their lives to go and get those people under very very heavy shell fire so people that want to get out have been told this is your opportunity This Is How We Do It um this is how you contact us and they have tried to get get them out so I think it’s only people who may not even have the ability to reach the police or or tell them that they’re stuck there who will be remaining there so the the most vulnerable probably you’re telling me um just before about um the the frustration that people must feel that um they’re being attacked from Russia um and attack thems they’re not allow are not allowed to use in the other direction and I’m just wondering having been um uh there and also in the Foxhole what is the actual morale like of the soldiers that you’ve encountered so it’s always a difficult one because the special forces units tend to have a much higher morale they’re very motivated they understand why they’re fighting they take generally fewer casualties because there’s tasked with Special Operations um and they’re not just holding the line sitting in the trench all the time um an infantry generally when we spoken to infantry they have they’re more tired they’re more exhausted their shell shocks um and they find it difficult because they need people people to hold the line and they don’t have enough people so there’s always a different motivating factor now what’s happened in harv is that the initial territorial defense and some of the Infantry brigades who were tasked with with holding these line and creating fortifications didn’t do that particularly well and Ukraine has had to rush in lots of different special forces units in order to bolster the line and different assault brigades who are volunteers and very highly motivated so when you go and speak to those people they are very they’re very motivated and the morale is good and determined to push the Russians back and they they’re happy actually that there are lots of Special Forces operators in the area because that makes it feel like an important thing for them but clearly the fighting is difficult and they are losing their comrades so that we’ll take a toll because one of the theories is is that this um this probing action was to divert and have uh Ukrainian forces redeployed to this area do you get a sense of of which forces have been deployed and how many well I think that’s not something they’d be willing to talk about because obviously they want to very secret and um but there is definitely a sense that special forces operators who might normally be tasked with support operations in places like chivar in Don Bassel or in the South are now being rushed into hardk and not available for missions in other areas I think you know most of the Infantry brigades the mechanized brigades are not being suddenly withdrawn but assault brigades who would be tasked with counter offensive operations and special forces are moving to hardk that’s for sure um do you get a sense uh now because it was a question that you were asking earlier earlier on when in your reporting as to what the actual objective is is it to to take har City or to get within range and destroy it so I think the Russians would would definitely like to take har but they’ve only got what is believed to be around 50,000 men on the other side of the border which is clearly not enough men to take a city the size of hardk um what they probably intending to do is to push as as far as possible as they can into harv region behind Ukrainian lines cause as much disruption cause as many casualties as possible and get within firing range of hardk in order to start making life there untenable and that seems to be kind of Putin’s plan in a way that if he can’t capture Ukraine he will just destroy it and make it a kind of not a viable Nation um and there’s the Second City in Ukraine with a population of pre-war population of 1 and a half million people it’s a really important economic and cultural hub for the country um so you know it it may well be that they’re trying to drive through to lipy just to get within artillery range and and make it very difficult for the ukrainians and the other effort that is in the vchan direction seems to be more about complicating um logistics for Ukrainian forces which are defending kupiansk um and preventing the Russians from capturing more of the donbass area so how does this fit in to other parts of the front line and the options that the the Russian forces have well I think it’s trying to make use of Russia’s superiority in Manpower now that they have the initiative and trying to make use of the delay in the arrival of Western Weaponry I think some of artillery ammunition has clearly arrived and there there is a lot of outgoing artillery from the ukrainians but much more of the the complicated Weaponry the sophisticated Weaponry the missiles they still not don’t have very many attack thems they still don’t have very many um Patriots and Patriot missile batteries which are are vital now that the Russians have introduced this long range Glide B bomb which they keep improving and get making the range of it longer and longer and that is making life in cities like harv already very difficult because there’s simply no way to stop those bombs unless you can shoot down the aircraft that’s dropping them and as they’re dropping them at a very long range at very high altitude they really need something as sophisticated as a patriot or an Air Force full of f-16s in order to Able be able to defeat them and is there anything that uh ukrainians can do to defend themselves when when they’re waiting so desperately for those air defense and those service to missile missiles surface to air missiles sorry well there’s not there’s that’s one of been one of the complaints from the ukrainians that these what they call cabs the Glide bombs there really is nothing they can do there’s no way that the ground forces can shoot down these these Jets and once the bombs are in the air you can’t stop them um so that’s been a really serious complaint from from all the Ukrainian forces that’s the thing they desperately need is the ability to shoot down Russian Jets I mean in the meantime they’re trying to be Innovative they’re trying to create you know havoc in inside Russia with their own homemade drones they’re trying to um outsmart the Russians and use more motivated troops to to kind of push them back in the harv region um and they will keep doing it there are a lot of motivated Ukrainian troops um who perhaps have been even more galvanized into taking action than they were before because of this new offensive it’s not the donbass that’s dragging on it’s it’s a new assault on hardk an area that they’ they’d previously won in so that has kind of galvanized a lot of people I think into realizing that the war is still going to affect the entire country and not just people that are living in a donbass in the south is it possible to to be able to say yet what the tempo of this offensive is going to be in Haro blast well there was an initial rapid advance I think you know within five kilometers within the first weekend um and they did that by um encircling and infiltrating a lot of the Ukrainian positions but I think the ukrainians have now realized what the small group tactic is and they’re they’re adjusting their way of fighting to stop it and they’ve brought in more special forces to counter this these infantry on Infantry battles um so I think the ukrainians are in the process of stabilizing the front line they they’re definitely under a lot of pressure because they are facing this intense artillery bar barrage and heavy bombing but they’re in the process of stabilizing the Russians haven’t moved that quickly since the initial weekend I mean it’s incremental advances but they are still in a position where they have a superiority in artillery and a superiority in air power which they can use to at trite the Ukrainian forces and perhaps grind them forward in the way that they have done in other cities and can you just explain to me a little bit more about how this new Russian small group tactic is actually being used yeah so it’s you know groups of up to 20 soldiers who will try and use the available cover as much as possible tree lines um river valleys uh avoid Open Fields maybe attack at night um and these are from what special forces were telling me today is that they they have been um very professional Russian soldiers so they think that these are Russian military intelligence or or Russian specialized FSB groups who were well trained um and moving professionally and not afraid and not panicking when they when they come into contact with the Enemy um so that seems to be the tactic now don’t rely on the vehicle so much try and infiltrate and and circle Ukrainian positions and then fight on on the Russian terms um and that is different from kind of bringing in huge columns like we saw in the initial attack on Kev where you had long long Columns of Tanks um which are just vulnerable now to fpv drones um and artillery fire and other kind of drones and H how are the Ukrainian forces responded to it you said they’ve they’ve adapted to this new tactic how are they dealing with it so they’ve they they’ve brought in infantry that are prepared to kind of fight other infantry at a pace of of 20 meters in in very small you know in very close um contact fighting and that it takes a special kind of soldier it’s it’s a very difficult thing to do to keep your nerve in those situations so they brought in their assault brigades um and their special forces units in order to bolster the Infantry in those areas and then they’re trying to use drone Warfare as effectively as possible to find the Russians as as soon as they Advance um and drop bombs on them and I think it was it was interesting to me to see um yesterday that the Russians are still trying to advance in broad daylight in the middle of the day um and in one instance when we watched about 13 Russian soldiers get killed by this drone unit who were dropping grenades on them and flying fpv drones into advancing Russian troops at the end of the day um there was still another 20 Russian soldiers who were advancing in exactly the same line exactly the same direction so although the tactics of the beginning the opening weekend um might have been very different it looks like Russia is kind of resorting to just carrying on sending men over the top to try and find the way through so do you get the impression that that although at the beginning they were perhaps more experienced and professional soldiers they’re now sending the less professional ones in almost a sort of this meat grinder sort of waves of tactics well they it it looked like this they were all pretty well equipped the weapons that they had were good and they they had good uniforms so it’s not the kind of storm Z Pino Colony soldiers um here but it does seem different from the initial attacks happened at between 3 and 6:00 in the morning um on Friday and there were Special Forces who clearly had night vision equipment um were used to fighting at night and not panicking and maybe during the day they’re using a different different group of soldiers um just to try and make some kind of advances that’s really interesting um do you get a sense though that what you’re seeing here and the tactics that are being used are specific to this part of the front line well they’ve they’ve copied um the ukrainians in some regard during the Ukrainian counter offenseive the ukrainians realized that Vehicles were just being spotted instantly by drones they they you know you can really see them very quickly and were being destroyed and all of the kind of new equipment that the West gave to Ukraine was not that helpful in advancing across Open Fields because they could be picked off by drones very quickly um and the Russians have clearly realized that too um Ukraine started sending infantry Russia is now sending infantry it’s it’s it kind of demonstrates I think how difficult it is to advance in this in this war and Russia has only really been able to do so so far because it’s been willing to sacrifice so many men and just raise entire defense defensive positions including the cities around them to the ground uh obviously the pressure will be on for Ukraine to to find and Recruit new and train uh new soldiers um what about uh the equipment um have you seen anything any evidence that um those short supplies of ammunition Etc are now being uh those problems are being allayed by the supplies that the Americans have announced it’s not clear how many supplies are actually arriving on the front line but I think the ukra had held back some they’d ration some shells um and you know clearly there is a lot of outgoing during the battle phipsi so clearly they are using shells they’re not rationing them in quite the same way as they were before and they’re probably counting on getting large supplies of of new Munitions but you know we we didn’t hear we heard grad Rockets the kind of oldfashioned grad Rockets we heard mortars we heard Barrel artillery but we didn’t see or hear any um any of the more sophisticated equipments like the himars the famous himars being used against the Russians and in fact we saw um helicopter gunships shooting Rockets which suggests that you know they still resorting to kind of inaccurate rocket fire quite in quite costly U manner of attack rather than these very effective high mass sophisticated weapons that the West had supplied earlier um assuming that the part of the the Russian objective is to get in within uh artillery range of K City where you are what would the consequences of that be well I think they would be devastating it would be the ability to start raising the city to the ground to to fire at will um into a heavily densely populated area um with tall buildings um it’s they’re you know indiscriminate most of those weapons um so yeah it would it would make life in har untenable I think and how are are the people of har bearing what do they say to you how do they express their intentions and what their options are so I think people in harv are nervous there’s still a kind of a great faith in in the Ukrainian Army I think that still persists now um even if they’re frustrated with some of the politicians um you know people are trying to get on with their everyday lives the people who who were very nervous have left and it’s there’s definitely less people in the city than in it’s Heyday um but uh you know I wouldn’t say that we’re in a panic situation yet they’ve got people of hard have endured since 2022 um and they’ve been bombs very heavily before and they’ve been hit by missiles very heavily before um maybe they don’t realize the extent of the danger um at the moment because they haven’t been shelled but it it is a real possibility that if Russia takes lipy that could start happening soon and and what what is it feeling like there right now for you you know on an hour by hour basis well it’s very tiring there’s there lots of adrenaline during the day when you’re with the soldiers with the troops when you’re in situations that are obviously pretty risky um and then you you try and have a bit of arrest and the Russians drop missiles on on and bombs on the the city all night so it’s it’s quite tiring work I have to say if there was something that you would like to communicate to to to to people to to an audience back here what would you like to say well I think you know it’s about measuring expectations on the ukrainians I think we had we were very optimistic about what the ukrainians could achieve in the counter offensive and and people wanted the ukrainians to succeed um but I think people have to realize that you wouldn’t expect any army to to Really advance and be successful if it didn’t have air power or the means to negate the enemy’s air power um and if if the West is is serious about wanting Ukraine not only to defend itself but actually survive and be a viable Nation it will have to it will have to win um and that means you know withdrawing some of the rules and and the restrictions it’s placed on Ukraine and I think the the offensive in hardk has made it particularly clear that Ukraine is not able to fight um without being able to attack Russian soil because the Russians can amass um an offensive um army ready to send across the border and as long as it’s in that Russian territory it’s it’s immune to some of the western weapons some of the most effective Western weapons so if if the US is serious about wanting Ukraine to win um it needs to withdraw some of those restrictions and those special forces that took you into that Foxhole in lipy can you just tell me um I mean you say they took you further than you’d expected um what did they want from you what did they want you to communicate so they’re looking for Western support they’re looking for Western Funding they want more drones more investment in in fpv drones from the Ukrainian government as well um they’re primarily looking to kind of build their boost their profile so that they can get more of the Munitions that they use very effectively I mean by the end of the day I think we’d watched about 40 Russian soldiers be killed or or injured by this drone Squad um and their main ambition is just to get more of these weapons and they need people to to buy drones for them to procure drones for them or give them funding Max you’ve already um sent several reports and written about your experiences when can we see your next dispatch so the next dispatch which will will include some of the things that we’ve been talking about and and a lot more will be out um in the Sunday newspaper the Sunday Times this is Sunday Maxim Tucker really good to speak to you stay safe thank you very much for your time thanks very much Kate you’ve been watching Frontline for times radio my thanks to Lou Sykes our producer to support the work off front line hit the Subscribe button you can also listen to times radio throughout the day or read it at times.co.uk thanks for watching bye-bye

“It’s incredibly loud. There is incoming and outgoing fire all day mortars, large calibre artillery, Russian jets coming, dropping glide bombs on Ukrainian positions, Ukrainian helicopters responding by firing rockets at the Russian positions.”

Kyiv has deployed special forces to hunt down Russian assault groups as Ukraine begins to adapt to Putin’s new tactics, reports Maxim Tucker who has been on the front at Lyptsi and Vovchansk with Ukrainian troops.

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