Ukraine on borrowed time? Zelensky in Europe amid far-right surge • FRANCE 24 English

Ukraine on borrowed time? Zelensky in Europe amid far-right surge • FRANCE 24 English

for Ukraine let’s start with the good news long range weapons from the West have finally arrived more on the way and the Russian offensive of the past months seems seems to be stalling now the not so good news as Vladimir zalinski lobes a repair and reconstruction conference in Berlin his country might be on borrowed time we’ll ask about plans to sell State assets to pay for the war and Western backers looking over their shoulders after Sunday’s European elections the far right who’s a leader here in France still owes money to Russia for a 2017 campaign loan did so well in France that the president triggered snapped legislative elections fears that supporting Ukraine could lead to World War II resonate with Marine leen’s voters they also resonate with the farle now that’s the mood music that takes zinski from Berlin to Thursday’s G7 Summit uh to the one he’s organized next week in Switzerland to try and rally support for a long-term plan what’s at stake in the days ahead today in the France 24 debate is support for Ukraine on borrowed time joining us from the capitol ke France 24 correspondent glier KAG good to see you glier good evening with us as well Ukrainian investigative journalist titiana Niko welcome to the show Good Anastasia shapo Kina lecturer in geopolitics the French Political Science Institute president president of the Eastern circles Think Tank welcome back thank you and we welcome from Washington Elizabeth brow senior Atlantic senior fellow at the Atlantic Council uh Think Tank you’re the author of goodbye civilization the return of a divided World many thanks for joining us thank you your reactions on the hash f24 debate over the past two years we’ve grown accustomed to Heroes welcomes for Ukraine’s president Monday was vadir zinski getting a standing o before the German Parliament the co-leaders of the far right afd party left the chamber saying they refused to listen to a speaker wearing camouflage fatigue the afd bolstered by its second place showing in Sunday’s European elections in Germany Eliza Herbert has more when zilinski addressed the German Parliament on Tuesday he positioned Europe as one in its fight against Russia we will not allow Russia to continue to March through Europe Putin will lose he said and Europe will be a continent without War but noticeably absent in the bundar were members of the afd just days after their success at the European elections where they claimed nearly 16% of the German vote the alternative for deuts land party decided to boycott zalinski the far right party has openly supported Russia as has the Austrian fire party fpo who were also Victorious at the EU elections securing more than 25% of the votes they are part of more than 130 farri right members entering or returning to the benches of the European Parliament begging the question what will it mean for Ukraine it’s a topic front of mind for French president Emanuel macron who lost dramatically to the farri National rally and on the far right at a historic moment in the country’s history clear patterns and positions have also been defined leaving NATO questioning again for some this relationship with diplomacy and our independence and ambiguity with regard to Russia but it’s a topic that comes with Nuance the national rally party has distanced itself so from Moscow since the beginning of the fullscale invasion of Ukraine however its leader Marine Leen Reg criticizes the extent of macron’s support for ke meanwhile the majority of far right Ms are divided the European conservatives and reformists with 73 MEPS is broadly supportive of ke while the identity and democracy group with 58 MEPS is accused of being pro Moscow while the far right is strengthened it’s not necessarily United and it could be this division that keeps Europe’s commitments to Aid Ukraine unchanged Anastasia chauchina were Sunday’s EU elections a GameChanger for Ukraine I think that the result the especially the national res in France of Sunday’s EU elections was a big shock to C and uh definitely there is an apprehension of the rise of the right because uh to quote the Bible where your money is your heart will be also and since all of the extreme right parties are funded by Moscow of course and the and the Parliamentary role the European parliament’s role has been increasingly important on key decisions like budget vote enhance defense budget decisions for Ukraine as well and defense budget decisions for increasing European Defense as well therefore the rising role of the extreme right is very worrying for KS Elizabeth BR of course France is not Europe and those legislative elections have not taken place yet here uh are we scaremongering or is there a real or do you feel this a fear here a real concern for the ukrainians well there is concern for sure but we should remember that that a number of countries saw that the far right not doing particularly well at all and then you have somebody like Georgia Mone who did very well her party the frell Italia did very well and she uh used to be described as being of the far right and and is still being described as being on the far but is also a a a passionate supporter of Ukraine so it’s it’s not a unique a uniformly bleak picture and it’s also important to remember that people often vote uh for uh let’s say populist or or rebellious parties in the European Parliament election because they feel it’s the safest place to to to uh to uh launch a protest vote and then they vote for more traditional parties in national elections when more where more is at stake Anastasia Shina just a question on this there was a big exit poll done by ipso for France 24 um the war this was on Sunday right speaking to people coming after they’d cast their ballots the war in Ukraine comes up in seventh position like way down but Topps was spending power and on that score we’ve seen natural gas prices that have jumped so much since Vladimir Putin’s Invasion uh and they’re due to jump again uh here in France nearly 12% between the first and second round of the election so is there this associ a that uh uh the war in Ukraine if it continues it’s going to hurt me as somebody who doesn’t ear a lot of money in my pocketbook and also you know this fear that well you know this is uh will will will there be Mission creep will we have to go fight in Ukraine how how much do you think the war in Ukraine did weigh on the vote I think the war in Ukraine weighed more on the vote than the actual response to this particular targeted question because of the repercussions and what people were most concerned about one of this is electricity and also gas prices in Germany electricity gas prices are related as well and also uh they were also concerned about the general budget distribution what is the what is the priorities nationally right and since defense is becoming the priority because leadership in countries like Italy in countries like France and even Germany understands that security of Europe is at stake and so they bring defense into priority that means that other items become less priority and that can hit uh the less economically privileged of course so that works in plays very much into the hand of the Russian propaganda it plays very much into the hand of the populist discourse of the far right the problem is that once uh even if it is Leen who becomes let’s say uh who wins the majority in parli let’s say imagine the worst right H and then or their Alliance of the rights and something else is going to win the majority in Parliament then how is it going to change the situation in terms of the security threats are going to remain the same the economic interests behind the commitments made are going to remain the same and the same companies who worked with Russia yesterday today they have an interest also in selling the arms either to Ukraine or to other people and they have the interest in developing the military-industrial complex of Europe it’s not just about spending it’s also about eventually economic Powerhouse in Europe making Europe into economic Powerhouse through defense sector as well and it’s about export as well and this is that’s not going to change that’s I didn’t I don’t think that’s going to change and no matter what populist compan campaign promises are made that’s not going to change because there’s too much economic interest right now already engaged and when mol the French President left the eventuality of leaving the door open to sending troops to the front line in Ukraine uh could it have stoked fears among voters of World War II the Russian defense Ministry this Wednesday putting out images of what it’s billing as the second round of joint tactical nuclear weapons training with troops from neighbor belus golier Craig I know you’ve uh repeated this often that it’s a big Bluff but still uh does that work are you asking whether it worked um on um influencing Europeans decisions as to who to vote for I don’t think that it does if you look at where the countries with the most anti-ukrainian rhetoric did the best you’ve got Hungary where Victor orban’s probably the most anti-ukrainian campaigning the most strongly on an anti-ukrainian or anti-h helping Ukraine line they his um ruling fedus party had its worst score in 20 years yes the afd in Germany um is you know on a pro-russian anti- Ukrainian line set out of zelinsky’s speech in Parliament but in France uh the rasal which won these elections so you know stunningly um had really really tone down any kind of uh anti-ukrainian pro-russian rhetoric felt that it was better to steer clear of that topic and When Vladimir zinsky addressed the French Parliament the um members of marine leen’s party not only did not uh walk out but they joined in with the standing ovations for all but two of them for Vladimir zalinski they didn’t clap when he was heaping Praise on Emanuel macron but other than that they seem to be trying to show that they too were willing to at least maintain some kind of support for Ukraine which is perhaps luser in reality but it shows that they didn’t think that you know this was going to be the thing to campaign on you mentioned Germany’s afd Elon Musk Turning Heads last Sunday the boss of Twitter Tesla and SpaceX tweeting why is there such a negative reaction from some about afd they keep saying far right but the policies of afd I’ve read about don’t seem extremist maybe I’m missing something uh Gulliver uh this this is the same Elon Musk who controls the starlink uh satellites low orbit satellite system that’s so important for Ukraine happily he’s still allowing um the ukrainians to use the styling I think that’s probably due to not wanting to fall out completely with the US government but I mean Elon musk’s recent Behavior does that worry you uh well Elon Musk worries me terribly yes I mean I think Elon Musk is campaigning for Trump he’s fight for the far right he’s I you you know I’ve talked to you about this I don’t use Twitter anymore because of it Tatiana n niceno your your thoughts on on this on scene from ke What’s Happening Here in Europe um for me it’s very difficult sometimes understand all this European problem because now in my f i don’t have uh an electricity and uh uh I hope that I will able to stay with you on this AA but maybe only for from the light part of day uh yes I’m very uh confused and maybe frighten from all this results and straightening for the right force uh and France also in Europe uh uh I think for us it’s a big Challenge and I support president mcon words that Russia will try to increase her care inl and block support for Ukraine in the ukan parl yeah let’s talk that about the the the situation you’re saying that electricity uh uh is touch and go where you are uh at the front claims and counter claims we can show you purported images of uh well there here we see images not uh of some of the destruction from uh uh Russian missile strikes uh uh that have been hitting once again over night several parts uh of Ukraine however soldiers at the front say that the long range weapons have started arriving and they say they’re making a noticeable difference since they granted permission for the use of weapons in the Russian Federation C300 and c400 missiles have been used Less in the city on civilians and of course on our positions the situation with the logistics of our aggressor has changed significantly they began to move less actively in this direction uh glier Craig that soldier in K region there uh saying that uh the long range weapons are making a difference is that been corroborated yeah the front has more or less stabilized for now and Russia doesn’t seem to have really achieved its goals with the new um incursion that it made into the northern part of harv region neither did it take as much territory in harv region as people expected it to even though no one really expected it to make it as far as harv City they really didn’t even you know they didn’t take V Chans which was the one town that they are still fighting for but it doesn’t look like they’re going to and they didn’t capitalize on Ukraine having to spread itself more thinly by taking lots more territory in the donbass at least not for now the Russians have made a few incremental advances here and there but there’s been no major breakthrough but that’s not to say say there isn’t going to be the Ukrainian forces are still stretched strained they’re still short of Manpower the Firepower Situation’s getting a bit better but it’s still you know they’re not out of the woods yet Shina what we’ve seen uh in the late spring Russia tried to leverage the situation when the West looked paralyzed especially the US looked paralyzed on the big chunk of military at to Ukraine and that uh Advantage was taken by amassing 90,000 troops just around the har region advancing there and even at that moment which was like kind of one of the weakest moments we say for Ukraine militarily in the last two and a half years they didn’t manage to really make progress so that and then once the weapons started arriving what we are hearing when we look at the Russian M bloggers telegram channels we hear that they see a massive wave of new uh equipment of new shelling power then also of course we read and we observe very closely the damage that it inflicts also the permission to use the weapons the West is giving to Ukraine inflicts on the Russian military infrastructure and on their capacity to advance not only now but also potentially in the long run and then uh that that shows also that this overwhelming Manpower so many people even here have argued that Russia is going to win because it has so many more men so that’s absolutely going to give it advantage in in the war we see that that doesn’t give it Advantage it’s technology which gives advantage and if the West sticks around with Ukraine with technology of course it’s possible to overwhelm the 90,000 people and overwhelm Russian technology because Western technology is superior but at the same time uh you heard Tatiana niceno saying that uh uh she’s worried about whether or not the electricity will go out before this show is over uh daily poundings by Russia taking their toll Ukraine’s power grid losing half its electricity capacity since last year Tom conned has more Relentless Russian strikes on Ukrainian energy infrastructure that have left millions in the dark Ukraine’s state power operator has been forced to apply rolling 3-hour blackouts in around a dozen regions from donet and hariv on the Eastern Front to Lviv in the west parts of the capital are also in darkness with citizens and companies who can afford it investing in diesel generators for power Ukraine has gone from generating 55 gaw before The Invasion to a current rate of 20 and this spring alone Russian missiles have taken out plants producing 9 gaw on top of that Russian forces are occupying the zapan nuclear power plant which has provided half of Ukraine’s nuclear power Before the War President Vladimir zalinski has been in Germany this week asking for air defense but also to discuss the mammoth task of rebuilding the country’s pounded energy infrastructure together we need to create our own black house against Russian Terror so that we can get get out of these blackouts in Ukraine and into the possibility of Peace while the mild spring and summer weather have allowed citizens to survive the blackouts more concern lays around the upcoming winter months where millions could be left in freezing temperatures without heating Elizabeth bro that brings us to what we saw that clip there uh Vladimir zalinsky in Berlin of of that two-day conference that was uh that has just wrapped up there uh two-day conference that’s uh build a recovery conference uh what was Ukraine asking for what can it expect so what what Ukraine needs to do which is really an extremely difficult task is to continue conducting the war rather the defense against uh against uh the Russian uh Armed Forces while at the same time thinking about how are we going to rebuild the country uh where is the money going to come from where are the guarantees going to come come from because we should remember that that any investment has be backed by by guarantees and so and these These are it feel like abstract considerations but the day will come when the war is over and if Ukraine doesn’t have a a viable reconstruction plan at that point H it’s that the misery is going to last much longer so it’s it’s two tracks at the same time and and I think what selinski is trying to do is is is trying to show Western leaders that he has he and his government uh have a concrete plan uh his visit uh this week wasn’t helped by the fact that that uh his uh reconstruction um uh head of reconstruction uh resigned but nevertheless he uh is making the effort to show that Ukraine has a plan it will be interesting to see though whether and or rather to what extent he manages to convince Western companies because it’s not just Western governments it’s Western companies that have to be willing to operate in Ukraine to be part of this reconstruction and they they will want guarantees for those uh for those operations as well uh especially in the early stages when that will still be a risk of of uh some sort of um harm uh being being uh imposed on their operations by the Russians or or others so it it as I said it feels extremely abstract at the moment but it has to this this plan has to proceed in a very detailed manner so that it stands ready to be implemented when when uh whenever this ends civer Craig uh you you heard there Elizabeth mentioning that that that uh resignation of uh a senior of cabinet member there um yeah I wanted to say um Mustafa n um who was in charge of the um Ukrainian national Agency for reconstruction in the post he wrote on Facebook uh announcing that he was resigning he also stressed and I think it’s very important to remember this that reconstruction isn’t just about postwar reconstruction it’s about about the war effort as well because it’s roads um which are absolutely necessary for the military logistics it’s border crossings which are necessary for improving the efficiency of Ukraine’s exports and keeping the economy ticking over these projects are also really important now for the war effort so it’s all the more of a Pity that I mean he wrote that in his resignation letter and it was a resignation that he was forced into clearly and he is the guy with a strong anti-corruption reputation who is in charge of this agency it very very very much looks as though they wanted to get rid of him because he wasn’t willing to play the game along with people who you know perhaps wanted to um steal some of the Reconstruction money I mean I wonder what T Tatiana niceno thinks of this apparently the conference went ahead all the same and wasn’t a failure Tatiana yes uh uh we all very uh confused with this resignation of Minister and Mustafa uh and uh I understand that this very uh bad signal uh from the uh Ukraine uh uh but I I don’t think that is uh battal uh uh uh uh we have essentially lost a case speaker on this topic in Berlin but uh um you don’t you’re not sure it’ll have much of an of an of an impact either way for the time being you’re saying sorry i b your question so yeah yeah yeah you’re not sure that uh it’s going to have an impact either way as Ukraine looks to get more public and private investment uh uh yes I agree with you Anastasia shapin yeah I think that uh of course it weend Ukrainian delegation in the Press we saw that uh both the firing of the vice prime minister for reconstruction kubra kov before Berlin Conference and Then followed by resignation of Mustafa aam responsible for infrastructure uh they uh kind of weakened very much weakened left the delegation without two key negotiators people who really on that level mastered the program they were replaced by other people in the team zi didn’t come alone obviously that that I I think that people who came to the summit and who were committed to Ukraine’s cause they also didn’t reject their uh commitment because they didn’t seek abov or but it does send a message uh and that does raise questions and uh what we would like to see I think what the West would like to see more of is more competent people kept and not just made to resign or fired because that in the long run weakens Ukraine’s image and I think that what Ukrainian leaders must understand is that they instead of infighting which is also was part of naam’s post because we were talking about the Russian narrative earlier which is that Ukraine is uh well full of rabid nationalists and very corrupt I think this particular uh this particular uh these examples they they were they were not so much about corruption uh on their own kbov didn’t uh wasn’t made to go because of corruption and namam did not resign uh over a corruption Scandal but uh both of them have signaled and I am very explicitly so about the infighting inside Ukraine and historically that’s what weakened Ukraine every time it had to face a major enemy be it historically Russia or historically Poland throughout its history it also had weakened Poland for example historically before it was partitioned and I think this is one of the major risks for Ukraine today it is the keeping the united front in the rare not just on the front lines and there is this sense if you read the reporting on this conference it build as a recovery conference but for investors attending the two-day event it can seem like a fire sale of State assets to pay for the war the New York Times uh reporting uh how uh you know certain uh that there are um um this summer the government will auction some 20 state-owned companies including Hotel Ukraine the one that’s right there on maidon Square that you’ve seen if you’ve watched those images from 20 2014 a vast shopping mall in keev and several Mining and chemical uh companies uh Elizabeth bro uh uh there are obviously people who want Ukraine’s best interest at hearts and there are probably bargain hunters too there are and what Ukraine is facing now under far more acute uh circumstances it’s the same choice that many Western countries faced in in the late 80s and 90s which was should we keep State uh state owned companies in particular sectors especially in infrastructure or should we privatized and I think everybody watching your show will will remember Margaret Thatcher’s fervent belief that that the private sector does these things better than the state does and so she privatized and and launched essentially this this privatization wave and in many cases has been successful in many in many cases the private sector does operate more efficiently then then that’s the state but the the the Dilemma is you never know you don’t know beforehand before privatizing whether that will be the case and you don’t know whether particular sectors lend within your country lend themselves better to privatize ownership to private ownership than than to State ownership so it’s it’s a big gamble and I think Ukraine’s Advantage here is that we have all these these countries and all these private companies and former States um State operators who can provide advice about how to do it so that it’s as as successful as possible and they I think can also help Ukraine um defend itself against the bargain hunters and and profiteers who are who will no doubt be knocking very enthusiastically at the door of the Ukrainian government yeah golier Craig I’m sure that everybody REM of course remembers the uh uh early days after the Soviet Union fell when uh it was chaos um I’m sorry I interrupted you and then I didn’t hear your question remember the days of the post Soviet days when it was chaos and there was Cowboy capitalism at the time when it came to these private and a lot of State assets of Ukraine and other um former um communist countries of course in those days got sold off for ridiculously low amounts of money and that’s how the oligarchs came into being I don’t think there’s a risk of that kind of fire sale in Ukraine now I mean the numbers that I saw in that New York Times article even if um the sales are successful and the prices are reasonable it’s still not a huge contribution to Ukraine’s war effort considering the overall price tag that there is on it but these are you know mostly companies that I don’t think the privatization of them is really very controversial it’s not like their utilities or the railways or things like that that there are really strong arguments against privatization I don’t think there are many people um who’ve ever been to the hotel Ukraine wonderful though it is who don’t think it could be better managed if it were refurbished in private hands because it’s a very run down shabby Hotel on such a prime piece of real estate in the center of Kev so I mean if that privatization is successful it’s probably going to be a good thing and also shopping mes I don’t see why they should be state owned I wasn’t aware that that huge one in Kev was until today actually Anastasia shaer K did you know that I think that uh of course even both the sale of the hotel and the shopping mall combined are not going to pay uh for you know any percentage of the war effort but uh where I think the eyes are at the main asset of Ukraine is AG culture and the law allowing privatization of the land has been passed was passed years ago during zelinsky’s first uh uh first kind of time period in office actually and then also there are companies including in the military sector which can be privatized and possibly improved or either uh or even Partnerships could be developed hence the corporate reform of across the cor the the board of different companies including ukar prom a big umbrella company uniting over 30 different companies and the corporate reform of that company could potentially prepare for next stage for closer partnership uh Partnerships with the European Defense companies then you have also the privatization of very important assets such as we mentioned the chemical whatever natural resources companies and infrastructure companies like ports which today cannot be sold at market value but they behind that that’s brings me back to the ’90s and you’re mentioning of it also of course puts the question of how it’s going going to be privatized it’s more important than what’s going to be privatized than how because of course the ’90s have distinguished themselves by very opaque rules of the game the open field as you say El Dorado of privatization for very happy few uh who would be let into the process and then a lot of money would be left out and here now I think it’s going to be a litmus test for the Ukrainian government whether they can make this process transparent and actually making sense but I think the the key problem though is there is no line of investors just lining up to invest because of all the risks of course right and showing that it’s not opaque also and uh applying rule of law is so important Tana nikolenko because Ukraine wants to show that it can join the European Union at some point can can you repeat your uh question I was saying it’s important for Ukraine at this juncture to show that uh it can uh have a process that’s uh uh transparent yes transparency is very um important for us and uh we uh need to uh make a signal for the European Union that we uh combat corruption or uh that uh uh we uh stay better in the difficult uh uh yeah to to be to be less uh to to to to show that that Ukraine is capable uh on that score and as it turns West so okay anast Shina we had the recovery conference as it’s called in Berlin and then there’s going to be next week in Switzerland this what’s called a peace Summit Russia’s not invited China’s not attending is it what how would you label it first of all this thing that’s I think the peace Summit is designed by the as far as I understand by the Ukrainian diplomatic establishment as a as as a way to regroup as many nations as possible behind the peace plan of President zilinski and it’s a way to also test the Diplomatic effort of the last two and a half years to see if Ukraine can actually gather as a sign of support international support not just Western Partners but also as many as possible Partners from the global South and thus showing and making people show as we’re speaking the Ukrainian president has taken a quick trip away from Europe to Saudi Arabia he’s met with the Crown Prince there not very logical but exactly see like in terms of geography very logical in terms of the peace process exactly because of course Saudi Arabia has a crucial Regional actor anti-iran actor while Iran being aligned with Russia Saudi Arabia is traditionally aligned either with the us or against against Iran at least more recently and this is a crucial player who can influence other countries in the region because what Ukraine is aiming at at the peace Summit is not just quality but also quantity and aiming to kind of make it as an alternative to the UN General Assembly Gatherings and votings where Russia is very heavily present and influencing as an alternative kind of gathering to show how much support it can actually Garner and this is going to be a real test I think to Ukrainian diplomacy really just to show for it however of course whether about peace we’re going to see any breakthroughs I do not expect to see any actual breakthroughs about peace it’s not about peace negotiations it’s about the support for Ukraine diplomatic support and then behind diplomatic support countries like Saudi Arabia of course can play a much greater role about which I expect them to be more circumspect Elizabeth bro uh zalinski very badly wanted Joe Biden to attend it’s not going to happen instead he’s going to send his vice president kamla Harris why why do he why has Ukraine’s president invested so much political capital in this uh Summit next week in Switzerland well as as was just said it’s it’s an effort to show that the countries supporting Ukraine in this war are not just Western countries and and uh from my own experience for example when I when I talk to Indian audiences I always he well you know the West shouldn’t tell us what position to tell about to to take on Ukraine and we decide for ourselves so it’s important for for s to be able to show that support for Ukraine is not just a western thing it’s not just a western dictated thing and that really matters Beyond diplomatic gestures because a number of non-western countries uh have essentially remained on the sidelines and while being on the sidelines have also uh directly or indirectly been supporting uh the Russian economy by continuing to to trade with Russia because they haven’t imposed sanctions they essentially uh not only continue to trade with Russia but undermine Western sanctions and and they would say well it’s up to us whom we trade with but that uh essentially well it strength strengthens Russia weakens Ukraine even as their diplomatic posture is that they are neutral so that as many of these countries as selinski can can convince to publicly side with Ukraine in some fashion uh the better it is for for for for Ukraine in this war regardless of the outcome of of any talks at at this peace Summit or anywhere else golier Craig zalinski how’s it being felt where you are the the fact that he’s he’s gone off on you know for all these for all this summitry uh the uh there have been some opposition voices criticizing him for being away from the country for such a long time he was in Singapore the Philippines and he came back for one day then he went to Sweden then of course France Germany now these but these are all really very important meetings and I think that you know there’s a broad understanding um of what the idea of this so-call peace Summit um in Switzerland is and I think even ukrainians who are critical of zilinski and his team on a number of issues aren’t really um suggesting that this isn’t fundamentally a good idea because clearly the idea of breaking the Russian Narrative of Russia and the rest versus uh the west by showing that Ukraine’s Got a lot of countries from the rest of the world on its side as well is is not a bad idea in itself but um the way things are going with the preparations of it um it doesn’t look that good I mean earlier ukrainians were saying that if they had a hundred countries taking part they’d call it a success and they were expecting at least Joe Biden to be that they were expecting the Chinese to be represented albeit at a lower level the Chinese aren’t coming they’re putting forward a different proposal Joe Biden’s not coming and it looks like falling well short of the um target of 100 countries so um you know we’ll see what happen happens in Switzerland um we’ll see whether or not there is a final declaration at the uh at the end of this Summit I mean I think that if there is the ukrainians will feel that they’ve got something to work with going forward if there isn’t then some people in Ukraine may be saying that the zinsky team Managed IT badly and um flopped it zalinski has had the mest touch since uh at least on the world stage uh since February uh of 2022 but from what we’ve just talked about so far in this discussion Shina this cabinet shake up ahead of a big conference where you’re trying to convince people that you’re a good country to invest in the fact that they’re not going to get as many participants in this peace Summit next week as they would have liked is zalinsky losing the magic the the mest touch yeah I think that there is there kind of different um ways of seeing it right we see this as this is what’s on the surface so to say this is the what’s what’s going on now on the other hand when you fix it Target and you announce it that’s that looks very good but also it’s Target for yourself it means that even if you fall short of it it may still be good for you because it depends who are the people who are actually going to show up who wouldn’t have shown up in the general assembly of the UN if the big origional players heav weights like Saudi Arabia are brought on board etc etc I don’t know if there was a realistic expectation that Biden is going to actually again come to Europe in such a short time even given his physical condition honestly he has to be at the D7 and it let’s talk about that before Bergen stock in Switzerland there’s a G7 Summit in Italy uh he’s he’s already boarded the Air Force One and he’s coming back that didn’t work that didn’t work at all then then then they blew it but but just to say that for me even if they fall short of the expectation already that we have to see how many people do they manage to gu to Garner and whether whether it’s going to be a successful exercise in general the exercise is a communication exercise nobody expects any result from The Summit in sense of Peace decisions some the decisions about the progress in the war what’s going to happen to the Future what’s going to happen to security of Europe it is indeed a purely image communication exercise and in that way maybe would maybe it’s a message in including from by the US that better concentrate your efforts on something that can actually yield results like for example reconstruction meetings or the uh the Reconstruction Summit in Berlin or the Washington Summit hopefully hopefully leads also results that’s the big one also we forgot so far Elizabeth bro did you hear that there’s a fourth summit we didn’t mention it yet it’s the NATO Summit taking place uh actually it’s due to begin the day after the second round of uh French legislative elections we’ll know then if the far right’s in power or not in this country uh is that the big one well it is the big one as as far as NATO is concerned but it’s not going it’s not going to to lead any breakthroughs when it comes to the Ukraine war and and since we are also discussing people who who will not be at various Summits the Washington Summit will be just a few days after the UK elections so it’s uh it’s who will participate from the UK government is is still shrouded in mystery and we may not know until the day of of the summit this day the summit begins who will represent the UK but um the Washington Summit really is about NATO itself and yes there will be various uh overtures to Ukraine shows of support but this is about uh decisions uh about NATO internally how to to how the alliance should be set up it’s it’s much less about Ukraine but I think that the the what has changed in these past two years is that H zelinski has become a regular guest at various Gatherings at which Ukraine would not have been invited to which Ukraine would not have been invited two and a half years ago and he’s he’s invited as essentially as a star guest and a special guest uh and not as a full participant but it’s it’s it is striking because Ukraine is always the that additional guest that is invited and and then when it comes to to zilinski Lo losing his might tou that was always going to happen it was going to be uh trendy and and uh important right at the beginning of the war for everybody to to support Ukraine and they wanted to they felt very passionately about it it was always the case that that passion was going to Wayne after a while and it has waned by the fact that he is continuing these uh uh these constant visits to the West is both a sign of the fact that he’s invited to the west and other countries is both a sign of the fact that he’s still invited still welcome and of the fact that these countries feel that is still there is still a viable case for supporting Ukraine if they didn’t think that was there was anything more they could do he would not be invited goer Kraig briefly here uh when on Thursday uh V zalinski goes to Italy he’ll be representing Ukraine as he speaks as you’ve just heard there said by Elizabeth uh he’ll be speaking with a UK leader who’s about to face election a French leader who’s about to face election and a US president who’s also facing an election in November uh has Ukraine done all it can to to butress itself for all the various outcomes that it faces among it election is not really a worry for them because the labor party and Kama have made it very very clear that they will continue supporting Ukraine and K has met zalinski um on at least two occasions I think of course what the ukrainians are most worried about is the US election and the potential return of Donald Trump and I think they’re only now just beginning to realize what a huge risk Emanuel macron is taking with these early French parliamentary elections and what could happen if the um National rally do come to power they remember Marine Leen the famous loan that her party took from Russia they also remember Terry marani one of the leading Lights of the um of them in the European Parliament at the moment who um is banned from visiting Ukraine because he traveled illegally to Crimea to participate in election observation missions there and I think he also was in an observation mission for the referendum um that allowed Putin to extend the term limits and so he’s on a blacklist and those French elections the French election season just kicking off we’ll be covering the G7 Summit right here on France 24 which kicks off in the morning goer Craig many thanks for joining us from ke I want to thank titiana niceno for being with us from the Ukrainian Capital Elizabeth bro in Washington Anastasia chauchina thank you for being with us here in the France 24 debate [Music]

Let’s start with the good news for Ukraine. Long-range weapons from the West have finally arrived, with more on the way, and the Russian offensive of the past month seems to be stalling. Now for the not-so-good news. As Volodymyr Zelensky lobbies a repair and reconstruction conference in Berlin, his country might be on borrowed time.
#Ukraine #Russia #Rise of the far right

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