How Putin’s forces ‘deliberately starved’ Ukrainian civilians in Mariupol, Ukraine: The Latest

How Putin’s forces ‘deliberately starved’ Ukrainian civilians in Mariupol, Ukraine: The Latest

I’m David Nos and this is Ukraine the latest today we bring you the latest updates from across Ukraine discuss a recent report that alleges Russia deliberately starved civilians during the siege of marup and we ask whether there are any signs that the tide could be turning in Ukraine’s favor rine takes you through the most unimaginable hardships to finally reward you with Victory if we give president zilinski the tools the ukrainians will finish the job Slava ukraini nobody is going to break us we’re strong we’re Ukraine is it’s Thursday the 13th of June 2 years And1 days since the fullscale invasion began and today I’m joined by our associate editor Dominic Nichols assistant comment editor Francis sternley senior foreign correspondent Roland olant Telegraph contributor and former tank commander heish to Breton Gordon and our guest is katriona Murdoch vice president at the global rights compliance Foundation I started by asking Dom for the latest news from Ukraine hi David and hello to you too so Russian attacks against Ukraine yesterday killed 10 injured 38 uh Regional authorities saying this morning nine oblasts were hit with casualties in dinit bro Petrov har and Don oblasts there were no reports of casualties in chiv sui pava Lans zapia and heon of blast biggest toll came came in the southern city of cier President zelinsky’s Hometown when a ballistic missile blast yesterday killed nine injured 29 including five children Ukraine’s prosecutor General’s office said the five children were injured after a residential building was hit Russian forces also attacked a residential area and infrastructure in the Nicol district with drones and Hillary according to denit Petros oblas Governor Siri lisac 17-year-old boy suffered shrapnel injuries and was hospitalized there okay next one operators from Ukraine’s thirdd soft regiment so special ops forces some countries call them Special Forces others special ops forces but Ukraine’s gone for soft uh so the third soft regiment have attacked Russia’s newest Digital radio relay communication station first time it’s been hit or this nature of equipment has been hit since the start of the full scale Invasion this comes out of Ukraine’s uh general staff this morning so the KE indd ke independent are reporting that the the somewhat natal title r416 GM which has only been in service since 2018 U designed to improve the efficiency of Russian Ground Force comms so they’re saying that soft did not disclose the location of the equipment but said as a result of the attack communication between the command post and Russia’s Army units was disrupted they also released a video which in which you can see two fixed wi drones smashing into and exploding when it hits the comm’s relay starting a fire but not sure we’re not able to see exactly how badly damaged it was okay next one Russian forces have been conducting drills on how to deploy nuclear weapons today uh they were practicing the electronic launch of missiles the Russian mod would quick to point out that they weren’t using real Warheads fair enough the country’s defense Ministry said that the Personnel of a Leningrad military District missile unit worked out combat training tasks for what they say was covertly advancing and They carried out electronic missile launches against conditional enemy targets don’t know what the conditions are there footage released by Russia’s mod showed Sailors focusing on a dummy Target and then counting down to launch including pressing the launch button next one 23rd meeting of the Ukraine defense contact group often known as the Ramstein Group after the it started in the US Airbase in Ramin or the US base in Ramin in Germany that kicked off today at NATO headquarters in Brussels Ukraine’s mod says the main topic of today’s meeting is going to be securing more artillery and air defense systems Ukraine and the US are expected to sign a bilateral security agreement at the G7 Summit that also starts today in Italy no details yet known about that but opening the Ramstein meeting earlier today Lloyd Austin secretary US Secretary of Defense said Argentina had just joined the group the Ukrainian defense contact group that takes it well it’s over 50 countries that are in in the contact group including all NATO members Argentina’s defense minister Louie Petri is representing the country at the meeting and Mr Lloyd sorry Mr Austin said fortunately support for Ukraine is growing and not weighing this follows Argentina’s move in May to join the International Coalition for for the return of Ukrainian children abducted by Russia the key of independent saying Argentina’s president Javier M may visit keev in June making it the first visit by a South American leader to Ukraine since the outbreak of the fullscale invasion of full scale War although Mr melee is currently focused on problems at home riots are broken out today after his package of of shock therapy laws narrowly one preliminary Senate approval late yesterday if you’ll see images on the news of of mass riots um outside the Parliament building but yeah petrol bombs and all sorts going off there that’s us up to date David thank you very much Dom Francis over to you there’s quite a few diplomatic and political updates to take us through where would You’ like to start well thank you very much David let’s start with Ross Bank the universal Bank in Russia which would be known to many their website is down this morning and it might seem a bit of a strange place to start but customers can’t log in and multiple Russian Banks this morning are preventing clients from doing the same because allegedly they don’t have the liquidity to give clients their money due to and this is the the big story new US sanctions some are positing that this might be the start of a Russian Bank Run I wouldn’t quite go that far but it does speak to the fact that the new US sanctions which are going to in a moment are having an impact on the markets despite the fact that Russia has been able to prepare for these for some time I don’t think it comes as an enormous shock to them so what are these sanctions well I’m reading here from Reuters because they’ve uh got all of the details already out so the you these new US sanctions against Russia have as I say forced an immediate suspension of trading in dollars and Euros on its leading Financial Marketplace which is the Moscow exchange that’s then had an impact on the central bank and therefore the other Banks within an hour of Washington announcing this new round of sanctions aimed at cutting the flow of money and goods that are sustaining the war in Ukraine so the central bank has said due to the introduction of restrictive measures by the United States against the Moscow exchange group exchange trading and settlements of deliverable instruments in US Dollars and Euros are hereby suspended and that move means that Banks companies and investors will no longer be able to trade either currency via a central exchange which offers advantages in terms of liquidity clearing and oversight or indeed through certain other methods instead they’ll have to trade over the counter where deals are conducted directly between two parties so many just for a little bit of context here many Russians hold part of their Savings in dollars or Euros which because they’re mindful of periodic crises in recent decades when the ruble has crashed in value and the central bank is reassuring people that their deposits are secure but it speaks to why this is leading to so much attention this morning in terms of economic analysis now one person at large in a non-sanctioned Russian commodity has told Reuters we don’t care we have Chinese currency getting dollars and Euros in Russia is practically impossible already but nonetheless this is clearly having quite a major impact and the US Treasury has said that it is targeting the architecture of Russia’s Financial system which has been reorientated to facilitate investment into its defense industry an acquisition of goods needed to further its aggression against Ukraine now as I say Russia Central Bank has been bracing for such sanctions for around two years now and another broker indeed is quoted by roters are saying this is bad but expected news the US Treasury has as I say announced this new range of sanctions this is the most major one but it’s also introduced sanctions on over 300 entities and individuals aimed at cutting off Russia’s access to products and services need to sustain its military production that includes dozens of Chinese components suppliers as I discussed yesterday this is the next big front in the economic War which is trying to stop third parties from being able to continue supporting Russia and this new range of sanctions is targeting third party firms and entities including dozens of suppliers of electronics in China the Middle East Africa Europe and the Caribbean now many will be wondering why it’s taken so long for such measures to be introduced when this was first being talked about over two years ago with regard to undermining Russia’s Financial architecture but nonetheless we’re here now and it does seem to be having an impact although whether it will be something that’s just a temporary blip that will last a few days or whether this will do some lasting damage remains to be seen of course we’ve been burned before but it will be interesting and one for us to follow David hence why I start there today well thank you very much for talking us through that Francis there are other important diplomatic updates to to go through um again what’s been taking your ey what should we know well thanks I’ll be very brief let’s turn then to the G7 which is a key player in these discussions there’s been a major development there too today as its leaders have agreed to send Ukraine 50 billion Dollar by the end of the year using crucially Russian assets Frozen in Europe the countries came to an agreement at last on Wednesday after significant pressure from the US which has argued the profits from Russian assets should be used to secure loans for keev long-term listeners will know of course this has been a huge cause of fure in the alliance for Ukraine certain countries particularly Germany I think was very cautious about this because of the precedent that it would set for their own investments in other countries but nonetheless this has now gone through separately the US has said it would sign a security agreement with keev to lock in American support for a decade amid concerns of course about the impact of a second Trump presidency Jake Sullivan the White House National Security advisor said the US would be sending Russia a signal of our resolve by making sure that support will last long into the future the will include a commitment to working with the US Congress on funding Ukraine going forward but will not to commit to using American forces on the ground it’s part of a wider deal signed by 15 other countries now that pledging continued weapon shipments and training programs it’ll be very interesting when we get the fine details exactly how America proposes or should I say the Biden Administration specifically proposes to make sure that this support for Ukraine is locked in and Trump proofed as it were if indeed that is their intention it’s very difficult to Trump proof anything really or any presidential uh person who comes in but it seems to be rooted in some way with it been Congress that decides as opposed to the president but one for us to discuss I think another time in more detail now taken in unicent with the military developments the green light on Western weapons being used inside Russia the ammunition beginning to trickle through this could all be seen there the economic front that’s just being waged here these conversations about the assets being used as further evidence to what Dom and I were discussing yesterday about whether this may be the most perilous moment for Ukraine is passing as the the very worst case scenarios of a Russian breakthrough as perhaps turning points are being reached on various different fronts at once but as I say very much welcome listeners Reflections on that now just finally on the G7 in a statement before the summit zinsky laid out his priorities for us the main issues are delivering fighterjet Coalition Expedia pilot training and accelerating aircraft delivery development of the Ukrainian air defense system based on the most powerful Western systems as well as an increase in longrange capability approval of the format for using Russian assets to benefit Ukraine something of course which we’ve just seen the green light given to and particularly in the development of our defense industry and Joint weapons production a year ago is still zinsky at the NATO Summit in vus the G7 adopted a declaration of support for Ukraine today as part of this declaration we are signing the final two security agreements with G7 members the entire Ukrainian people including our Warriors see that the G7 will always support Ukraine I am grateful to our partners for their belief in us and our Victory and just finally separate to what is happening within the G7 eight EU foreign ministers have called on the EU to ban Russian diplomats from moving freely around the block and restrict them to countries where they are accredited this is a very strong statement by ministers from czechia Denmark Estonia laia Lithuania the Netherlands Poland and Romania expressing their concerns about what these diplomats are able to do in terms of uh Gathering intelligence using and disseminating propaganda and just generally undermining the war efforts so further Evidence potentially David of a reaction to the kremlin’s hybrid Warfare strategy which we’ve discussed in recent episodes but that’s us up to date on the economic and political fronts David well thank you very much Dom Nichols and Francis sternley for all of that Roland ol Can I Turn to You Next you’ve just published on the telegraph website a news story about The Siege of marup and a report from an international Legal Foundation working with Ukrainian prosecutors on that Siege what did you find Roland all right so this is this is a report that’s been published by global rights compliance that’s a dutch-based international Legal Foundation just to give you the God I’m sorry I’m so slow today the basic fact they have a unit called the starvation mobile Justice team that in turn is part of something called the atrocity crimes Advisory Group that is a UK EU and US sponsored vehicle which was set up in 2022 to assist the Ukrainian prosecutor’s office with investigating war crimes so that’s who’s paying for this this is how it’s come out now the top headline from this report is that they believe that they found I’ll give you the quote straight away from the top reasonable grounds to believe that Russian and Affiliated forces intentionally used starvation of civilians in marup as a method of warfare to both accelerate the Sur surrender of Ukrainian armed forces and capture the city of marup and its environs this is I me it’s obviously significant in in terms of this particular war and in terms of the the potential for prosecution of Russian war crimes at some point in future it’s also got broader significance because the war crime of starvation has never actually been prosecuted this would be an intensive it’s quite a test case really so we’ll come back to that in a second the so details they say they looked at over a year they examined 1.5 billion square meters of satellite imagery they examined photographs videos public statements so a lot of Open Source stuff but also they say previously unseen photographs taken during The Siege and and information provided by the Ukrainian government now the upshot of that they say is that they’ve identified four elements to this pattern of what the Russians were up to during that season just to remind listeners the Battle of mar upo began pretty much immediately on the 24th of February 2022 uh it continued Ian officially until the 20th of May and that’s the day when the last Defenders of azof style finally surrendered so during that Siege they say that the Russians first of all targeted ois and that is international humanitarian legal jargon for object indispensable to survival so you’re talking about power stations you’re talking about water distribution things like that they then impeded access to Aid they impeded evacuations and they arrested people during the filtration process after they captured areas there was a pattern of people being arrested simply because they’d been involved in Aid distribution or something like that so people were arrested where they had no military role the only reason for that appeared to be their involvement in that and that altogether in aggregate GRC say points to the war crime of starvation now where does this go next well they say that this dossier which has just been published all the evidence that they’ve preserved in the course of this investigation is going to be submitted along with other stuff compiled by the by the Ukrainian prosecutor’s office to the office of the prosecutor the international criminal court and they obviously hope that further down the line the prosecutor will apply for warrants for the arrest of individual Russian commanders to face trial for this crime it’s a long way down the road I spoke to Katrina Murdoch one of the lead lawyers on this yesterday she said they’ve got they do have names of suspects they interested and she’s not sharing them at the moment but further down the line we may see that whether or not they ever these people are ever actually arrested or brought to trial we know that International humanitarian law moves very slowly we’re still only just coming to the end of the the Yugoslav processes and it would require how do you arrest people who are perhaps hiding in Russia but nonetheless this has been this is a step forward on the campaign to hold Russia to account for for war crimes and just a little note read listeners will remember I presume that last month there was an enormous International POA uh to use the technical term when kareim Khan the the chief prosecut of the ICC did apply for a West Lawrence for Benjamin Netanyahu the Israeli Prime Minister and yo Gallant the Israeli defense minister for war crimes alleged war crimes committed in Gaza including starvation that is the first time any warrant is been applied for for that crime so you’ve now got two interesting test cases about this crime it was only outlawed under the Rome Statute in 1988 so what happens with this case around marup and the case in Gaza is really going to inform could potentially have a very important role in informing International humanitarian law in future I’m going to stop there because if you hang around later on the podcast version I’m hopefully you’re going to be able to hear my interview with Katrina Murdoch who lays out how they conduct this investigation and also she talks very interestingly about the implic wider implications for for humanitarian law I I can confirm that to our listeners um I’ve just finished editing it Roland so that should be going in today but ran can I ask we’ve spoken about the siege of Maru poll several times on this podcast of of course we covered it when it was happening and we’ve come back to look at it uh from different angles repeatedly over the years did you learn anything new about that battle in this report and and did you find anything particularly shocking or stuff that we we haven’t seen before I mean I think the great benefit of this report is it goes through marup with a kind of fine toothed comb and it links a lot of stuff together and you’ll remember that we all remember big headline moments from Mar APR so the bombing of the drama theater um the bombing of the Neptune swinging pool the same day um the Battle of AZ of style the this I remember sitting in where was it zapia in the first few days of that battle just after the encirclement had closed waiting for days and days for this green Corridor to open and it just would not open and we were sitting there with the there was this line of buses that were this every day sitting there waiting to go down and they’d always say we’ve got an agreement no the Russians haven’t kept the agreement so on so forth this report brings all of that together in quite quite comprehensive detail and makes the case that all of that and the immense destruction of of maral so remember when maral finally fell the the city government who were by that point in Exile I think said is there about 15,000 people they said had died I don’t have the number immediately in front of me but a vast the city was basically destroyed in large part huge numbers of people died and this suggest that was not accidental that was not just collateral that was not just okay well we have a fairly fairly LAX slightly brutal kind of way of doing War this report makes the case that that was absolutely deliberate part and part actually part of the strategy being pursued there and I think I mean it is actually remarkable I’m just off the top of my head I would say that if you take this report and the forensic kind of examination of what happened there and then you look at things like God I forgotten the name of the film about marul everybody 20 days exactly 20 days of marup which is a remarkable bit of reportage and stuff this is actually a siege that is probably I don’t know if one of but a remarkably well documented Siege compared to many sieges in history if there’s an awful lot of data out there and a awful lot of understanding and as Katrina made point when I was speaking to her she said in historical terms even contemporary terms was it 80 Days that’s quite a short Siege so it’s quite quite a comp kind of period of time in which to identify and see these these patterns absolutely well thank you very much Roland well let’s before we come I know there’s more more update from Dom but let’s go to heh de Breton Gordon heish Francis earlier in his update did raise this idea that with the steady arrival of Western Aid with the the releasing of the American permission for the ukrainians to strike at least Parts at least a little bit into Russia that potentially and again I’m just trying to caveat this as much as possible potentially the moment of the greatest Peril may be behind us you’ve been thinking about this as well can you talk us through your thoughts and your conclusions yes absolutely good afternoon everybody and always a delight to be in Telegraph towers and I don’t want to eat any of francis’s sandwiches he was very much covering the Strategic sort of level the piece I wrote yesterday was very much looking at the operational and tactical implications at what could happen here and I think if we if you use the soccer analogy with the no to the Euros of course Ukraine has been defending with just a goalkeeper whereas Russia has been attacking with a full team plus substitutes and and that has been that has really constrained them so so from a military perspective the ability that Ukraine can now attack into to 400 kilm into Russia in certain areas and I was with the at the Ukraine Embassy with the defense Tache this morning and I’ll cover that a little bit more later but you know he want to emphasize this is still quite constraint this is not across the whole area but I think it’s hugely significant cuz in that area and all around where Russia borders Ukraine 400 km in depth is where all the kit is it’s where they form up their troops it’s where the major airfields are it’s where where ammunition dumps are the major command and control knobs and the tactical nuclear weapons I’ll just come back to those in a minute I think really significantly when you look at some of the things that they’ve done over the last few days it does point that this might be an inflection point I’d say might because I don’t think we need to we want to start getting the bunting out but the fact that an a Ukrainian aircraft attacked a command node deep into Russia and an ammunition dump to me starts to whiff of what we call Air parity now we talked a lot about freedom and maneuver Domino spoken often about Freedom maneuver on the ground of troops one of the key things that you need is ideally air superiority and and the the lack of air power from Ukraine has really hampered a lot of their ground operations so even ahead of the f-16s arriving a few weeks or months time it would appear that Ukraine is getting some sort of air parity and I think that is hugely important we remember when ukrainians defeated the Red Sea Fleet and pushed that out out of the Black Sea that then started to give them some Freedom maneuver not the Red Sea bloody k the Black Sea gave them freedom of maneuver if the ukrainians are going to start moving forward they need to have freedom of maneuver those ground forces and absolutely key to that is freedom of maneuver is air parity ideally sort of air superiority I think the other thing it screams out at we talked I know you guys talked on the Pod earlier the week about the S 57 that was taken out and some other marked bits of Kit well where is their air defense if they can’t protect these Mark pieces of Kit then surely something is going wrong and I’ll come on to the nuclear bit over the weekend there was a piece in the paper of Putin uh ranting that Europe wasn’t ready for uh nuclear war um and as Dom mentioned earlier on they’ve been testing they’ve been doing electronic tests of some of their tactical weapons now my thesis and I I actually did did a dare I say on a another broad sheets um radio station the other day really unpacking get out sorry I’m ow um really unpacking why I think that the tactical Nuclear piece is complete Bluff and Bluster now we saw and I think there’s a piece in the paper yesterday about the the test of these uh nuclear launchers as we know when they tested a few months ago they do not have nuclear warheads on them uh a lot of the escanda missiles have been retrofitted with conventional heads the laboriousness of the practice that we saw yesterday and we’ve SE seen in the past to me the Russians and I I feel bit bit guilty about talking about this I don’t want to give them too much information but they surely know anyway their concept of operations to me for their tactical nuclear weapons is something from the 60s and’ 70s if they are going to take a day or so to set these things up and move them around that might have been fine when there there wasn’t the intelligence around but now that’s been looked at and the fact that they need to be well within that 400 km um area around Ukraine to Fire and have an impact um the ukrainians can take them out now that is another issue but I think there hither to the whole nuclear thing has really cowed some of the more timid Western NATO leaders and perhaps they have held back some stuffff but let’s look at it since the 25th of February 2022 Russia has threatened nuclear attack and ex and escalation and it just hasn’t happened and I actually think that these nuclear weapons are completely unusable so I think that is something that should look at so is this inflection point is it a turning point well I mean we all hope so but certainly things are moving in the right direction and the final bit on the the command and control piece we talk Dom and I talk about Mission command quite a lot this is where soldiers are given a mission and if they have no more Direction they just get on and they do what they think their commanders are going to do now this doesn’t Mission command doesn’t happen in the Russian army in the Russian military basically it is all driven by direct command so if you lose your commanders the Rabel the the Russian soldiers who we know only have a few weeks training really don’t have the experience to get on and do anything effectively and they don’t have that mission command that gives them the flexibility to think on their own and do what they think’s right so so actually taking out the the command centers taking out some of these Mark pieces of equipment I think is hugely significant and hopefully it is the beginning of better things and a and a brighter summer for Ukraine thank you very much Hees just quickly then your time with the Ukrainian defense attache what did you learn well well I I was ostensively there to to talk about gas Mass Jimmy rushon did a very good piece and investigation for the paper a few weeks ago I followed up with some my own investigations and it’s very clear that at the lowest tactical level the extensive use of Cs gas riot control agents is having a huge impact and comparing notes with the ukrainians really what what Jimmy had said and and the couple of pieces that I wrote were absolutely spoton it’s having an impact because the Russians are using this dropping them dropping CS canisters from FP drones almost an industrial scale some units are getting two attacks a day and because they have the old Soviet gas Mass which funny old thing don’t work they were M basically had to leave their trenches this stuff is effective for 5 or 10 minutes and it’s pretty unpleasant but the Russians they are Past Masters of using chemical weapons I mean they’re taught the Syrian the syrians how to do it they taught the Iranians how to do it and they probably taught the Iraqis too and they follow it up that well they preced it with conventional attack and follow it up with conventional attack and a bit like in the first world war use of chemical weapons they’d lose a bit of ground and then they’d come back again The Simple Solution is to make sure that those um soldiers have a gas Mas at work so that was very much we were talking about I mean it’s a funny old thing when you when we’re looking at the Tactical level that’s the lowest level that’s on the ground that soldiers fighting with bennets and bullets to the Grand strategic level which is the high miles the tacks the Storm Shadow the sort of Mark piece of equipment that ke wants are those missiles that can have a strategic impact but if you go down to katus with the 82nd or the presidential guardan lineman the people there want gas Mas so that that is the thing so we’re I think we’re moving forward there but I will certainly keep everybody posted on how we’re going on that one and I know that the The Da is very keen to join the Pod at some time but like any any official military person he says the paperwork and the time to get it done start now if you want to speak to him next month oh we will thank you very much heish Dom let’s come back to you briefly then uh before we get to our final thoughts Dom you had some updates from time spent am I right in saying the Estonian Embassy yeah so yesterday I was in estonian’s Embassy here in London to meet to meet the Foreign Affairs Secretary General so not the not the Foreign Affairs not the foreign minister but one of the senior officials in the foreign Ministry there J Jonathan vov now he made his country’s position very clear on the war in case there’s any doubt I’ll just I’ll read some of his quotes directly just to make it absolutely clear he said if we allow it to become the norm that some countries sovereignty in Europe is limited in terms of what they can do because their neighbors object to certain elements of their domestic policies or foreign policies then we’re opening a Pandora’s Box the Europeans should know better not to open because then the Box will be open for all of us an era of great Powers deciding over the heads of smaller States what they can or cannot do or where the spheres of influence in this continent are will lead to further conflict and instability we will all be damaged the small ones before the big ones but the catastrophe will come and reach all of us so I thought it’s very clear outline of what he said his stall out early it was that the whole thing was just a good sort of temperature test of where we are really on the on the political side of this of this war he said Putin right now has only two major assets at his disposal Russia’s nuclear deterrent and the country’s energy export capability but both of those in relative terms to the West are weakening he said he said Putin is desperate for Russia to be seen as a major world player and to have a seat at the table as he put it for where Global issues are decided but said the hand he’s playing is exceptionally weak and getting weaker he said there’s really no reason for a country of 140 million people with almost no economy to get a seat at the table where the norms and rules of the new international world are being discussed because his hand is so weak is exactly the reason he so desperately wants to be at the table now he said what we all talking about oh this issue about seizing Russian assets and using Russian assets which I think is going to be one of the major areas of focus for the G7 meeting that kicks off today he said estonian’s position is that the benefits of confiscating Russian assets far outweigh the risks although he doesn’t he didn’t um discount that there are significant risks he said the way to do it without undermining the rule of law and acting as he said like Highway robbers is by directly tying the value of the confiscated assets to reconstruction projects as down payments he said for the compensation that Russia would have to be held accountable for down the road and then briefly on nuclear rhetoric I’ll quote this directly it’s an important topic and one that rightly people are extremely concerned about but Mr vov said we are convinced the Russians continue to be rational they are not interested in suicide or in blowing up the planet but they are interested in paralyzing us with fear every time we demonstrate that they that could actually work every time we talk about escalation concerns or escalation management every time we hint to the Russians that the use of fear might actually work we incentivize them to use it more and then just briefly to to finish off with he said there are signs Putin’s rule is under extreme pressure at the moment he he cited the pr March Last Summer the Mutiny all Mutiny no Bounty the he’s also talked about the Personnel changes in the defense Ministry the arrests of high level generals including just in the last couple of days Russia’s Deputy defense minister teimo Ivanov arrested on corruption charges Mr V said all these things were what he said glimpses of the tensions that there are in Moscow and just final quote he said an aura of fear has descended upon Moscow which doesn’t compare to anything in the recent past except in the stalinist Years these are all examples of the whole regime being under intense pressure so pretty clear where Estonia uh sits at the moment interesting that they’re taking these ideas on into for us such as the such as Ukraine defense contact group the Ramstein group and and other other initiatives and that seems to be the view chimes with what francis’s pce yesterday about is this a turning point is this is time moving in in Ukraine’s favor but it was a very interesting chat with the view from estonia’s foreign Ministry David well thank you very much Dom let’s move now then to our final thoughts Francis dley would you like to go first well thank you DAV a very brief one for me it was a privilege for Ukraine the latest to win best news podcast at the publisher podcast Awards last night here in London a huge thank you to all of our listeners who have stuck with us over the past two years we obviously don’t do it for accolades but it’s pleasing to win is it it underlines that Ukraine not yesterday’s story but Remains the story certainly as far as we and our listeners are concerned it’s our honor to keep reporting thank you to everyone at the telegraph Roland of course Joe Barnes and other regulars and as well as our producers Charles gear and Lisa Wells who’ve been with us ever since the very beginning it’s a team effort getting this out every day and we include you our listeners in that your loyalty and feedback is invaluable and if we could respond to each of your emails and messages individually believe me we would but it does feel like together we’ve built a great Global community on the podcast and we certainly don’t take that for granted so thank you all very much again from all of us thank you very much Francis Dom Nichols would you like to go next yeah i’ I’d Echo what Francis just said I will also specifically point to keep an eye on the on the things going on at the moment you got the G7 meeting right now you got the Ramstein Ukraine defense contact group happening and you got this peace uh Forum in Switzerland over the weekend so a big few days of diplomacy coming up be really interesed to see what comes out of it I’m looking for the detail on this how to use the Frozen Russian assets and I’m looking for the detail that comes out of this bilateral defense agreement with between the US and Ukraine see quite how only last week Joe Biden was talking about well putting cold water really on Ukraine’s Ambitions to join nato in the short term so let’s see what how meaty this this bilateral defense agreement is going to be but quite a lot of diplomacy coming up in the next few days to keep our eyes on David thank you very much Dom and Francis heish why don’t you go next I’m going to rather uh selfishly do a bit of publicity two weeks today the dream team from the award-winning Ukraine the latest podcast will be down in my neck of the woods at the chalk history Festival the biggest and the best history Festival on the planet run by James Holland who he and I wrote a piece last week about mass and technology for the paper and on the Thursday I think they’re two turns I think Francis and David are doing at 1 in the morning and Dom and I in the afternoon with General Richard shereif who is a friend to the Pod talking about uh all things tanks so there are still a few tickets left understand so do I’m sure the uh link to the the festival would be on the Pod notes uh but it’ be great to see you there it’s very although it’s a big place very intimate chance to come and chat to us all I know the likes of Al Murray and James May will be there as well so lots of interesting people to speak to and of course come and he the award-winning pod too that’s me thank you very much heish Roland Roland would you like the very final words for today thank you I’ll be brief and and I for you’ll have to forgive me for being a little bit woly and philosophical but no I would just encourage people to think a little bit more about about what I was talking about International humanitarian law but given that we’ve seen a similar kind of effort to bring charges in Gaza Kareem Khan has also recently issued a a request for for evidence from the war in Sudan look this is a really interesting part of this period of History we find ourselves in we know we’re in a period of great turbulence possibly the most turbulent the most dangerous since yes I’m going to say it since the 1930s but then there were no International courts to hold people to account this is a system that’s been built up are we actually going to have as we enter this period as we possibly see more and more Wars more confrontation around the world is this attempt to maintain some kind of legalistic some kind of restraining effect on the excesses of War going to work you know what it might I’m not saying it will but I think it’s very interesting that we’re entering a period of great power confrontation whatever you want to call it with this mechanism it’s there and people are trying to make it work and it might not work but it’s going to be very interesting I think seeing how that goes whether the concept of international humanitarian law does survive contact with reality with perhaps this is the moment that it was waiting to be to be tested for waiting for to be tested in and I’ll leave that thought there and allow people to go off and write I’ll have, 1500 words by Friday morning please on my desk coming up we hear Roland’s interview with catriona Murdoch from the global rights compliance Foundation thank you so much Dom Francis heish and Roland well as promised here’s Roland oliphant’s interview with katriona Mok from the global rights compliance Foundation I’m Jord by Katrina Mok um who is a British barister in China charge of something called Global rights compliance Katrina why don’t you begin by just introducing yourself quickly to our listeners so we know who we’re talking sure so I’m definitely not in charge I’m a yeah I’m a a British Barrister um and I’m the vice president of global rights compliance right and you are the author or the co-author of um this new 76 page report which is published uh today that’s Thursday um uh which which is quite remarkable it basically amounts to a compilation of evidence that you conclude um demonstrates that Russia deliberately used starvation as a weapon of War during the Battle of marup um now this is a bit that’s in the news anyway because of what’s happening in Gaza um at the moment could you talk us through just how you came to that conclusion so it it’s essentially it was a a 12-month investigation although we really were looking at Maria Paul from from the outset and what we looked to do was to really try and move away from Mario Paul being reduced to these sort of high-profile incidents the drama theater the maternity hospital amongst others and so we wanted to see if similar to some of the other sieges that we’ve analyzed across um Syria and other context to see whether there was this pattern and whether there were phases of that Siege which was relatively short particularly in comparison to some of the other sieges we’ve worked on and to see whether through the destruction and the Damage that was so widespread whether there was a story that could be told um and whether beyond that there was there was a strategy that was at play and so we used um damage assessment mapping and created a a bespoke algorithm I I say we that was certainly our uh open- Source intelligence partners and then we brought in weapons and ordinance um Munitions experts um as well as the Ukrainian military experts as well to really try and sort of explain to us what this data was telling us and what we were able to see there after a lot of analysis was there was this pattern um and there was sort of four distinct phases that we looked at there was that initial targeting within the first week um where civilian infrastructure which we’re seeing very much now across all of Ukraine but that was targeted straight away including electricity Heating and drinking water and then the next next phase began which was around the denial of humanitarian evacuation so sees um uh Roland as as you’ll probably be aware are not unlawful in and of themselves but the practices within them so often there will be practices around and um human rights and international humanitarian law obligations to allow civilians to leave and what we saw was that was completely frustrated in in the context of Ukraine uh and in the context of marip Paul then we saw the sort of targeting around and the language around what was being described as this humanitarian catastrophe and that was the language that the Russian Ministry of Defense were using themselves so they were acknowledging really the situation for civilians inside of mariao um but then that was com combined with a culmination of attacks on where these key locations were where humanitarian access was being delivered where food and water was being provided for as well as shelter and and the hospitals and then we saw a sort of a wider strategic attack in the Final Phase to to remove other objects indispensable to survival and to really accelerate that that capitulation and and um encirclement of of of Maria Paul um and the conclusions I mean you you don’t pull your punches I mean I’m just um I’m just I’m just writing the the the news report now I’ve just been pulling quotes from the report I mean um there’s no end of of kind of py py points here but a couple that I picked out this pattern of conduct leaves experts to conclude that the starvation of civilians in marup city by Russian forces was intentionally used as a method of warfare um another line in that starvation crimes this is important actually because it’s about why they do that starvation crimes were perpetrated to accelerate the capture of The besieged Enclave with such efforts manifestly increasing and culminating with the declared capture of marup City on a 20th of mes so the basic thing you’re saying is that you’ve got this pattern of behavior and it it’s not accidental this reveals that actually starvation was was it was a method that they planned to use to help them capture the city and that that’s Central to this being a crime isn’t it exactly and I I think this was sort of the challenge and and almost the the reason why we wanted to focus on Maria Paul because so many partners and actors that we worked with on kind of looked at maripol and thought well this is you know this is so difficult to disentangle it’s this Urban environment of very intense hostilities between both sides you know civilians caught in the middle and and you know a sort of Destruction and the speed with which the destruction was occurring really made this you know incredibly difficult to investigate which is why it you know it’s taken us so long to really come to these conclusions but I think what what’s was very clear as you sort of got beneath that kind of um first impression of Destruction and you know active hostilities on both sides is what you begin to see is is where you know the other forms of protections of civilians that occur within the conduct of hostilities start to be dismantled where you see civilians being prevented from leaving where you see filtration being set up so that there’s this screening process of those who are allowed to leave and those who have to stay then you start to see these you know repeated patterns of attacks on on hospitals on shelters and and the rhetoric around that it it becomes quite difficult to explain how civilians were protected and how harm was meant to be minimized and how these attacks may have been proportionate in the conduct of of ordinary you know um of of ordinary fighting and so the the it was quite clear and because in many ways marip Paul was a relatively short Siege we were able to sort of see these patterns come to come to light quite quickly um very quickly because I want to come into the broader aspects a bit later on but very quickly um the significance of this um and what is it that makes this different to previous allegations of war crimes against Russian forces we’ve seen we’ve seen quite a few actually yeah thank you Roland it’s a good question I mean it so there’s there’s no there’s no current arrest warrant for the war crime of starvation um in the context of Ukraine um what we saw in March was a really in um Progressive step in terms of uh arrest warrants being sought and granted in terms of attacks on critical infrastructure which is something that this report really focuses heavily on but it’s significant in that it’s the first time that there has been this comprehensive investigation into the possible use of starvation as a war crime in Maria Paul and using this as this broaden narrative to capture not just the siege um and these isolated incidents but the but the whole 85 days as it stands and so the findings really they they analyze these attacks on civilians and objects and infrastructure as a pattern and in the aggregate where you look at these kind of isolated incidents when you put them together and with Associated violations across a number of different war crimes and it becomes um as as we’ve said in the report becomes difficult to see this not as a pattern and not as a deliberate strategy and so its significance is it’s the first time that it’s framed it in that way you know early on as we saw you know the reports that came out in in March when this was occurring about you know um civilians being forced to drink radiator water or melted puddles you started to see some of that language but almost in sort of imp passing it wasn’t it wasn’t explored from a kind of analytical or from a forensic perspective um and it’s significant in the sense that it accurately labels not just the criminality but also the indignity and this is something you really where the the title came from in many ways was um through a training that we were providing in in February in Ukraine and it was one of the Ukrainian um police officers who actually uh indicated that this was really the the point where the Hope left and and it was that indignity of a a city that had gone overnight to you know near destruction infrastructure gone and really the the ways and means that they were being forced to survive as as that was being dismantled and destroyed in front of them so I think it’s that um it’s capturing that aspect that human aspect that we want to try and tell that story as well so what’s the what’s the next step I just I just want to for our listeners to get the to get the technicalities out of the Way You Are are so Global rights compliance is an international Legal Foundation specializing in international humanitarian law correct me if I get anything wrong and you are part of something called the atrocity crimes Advisory Group which I believe is EU ukus funded um exactly and then the starvation component is funded by the Netherlands yeah right um and that group The atrocity crimes Advisory Group that was set up in 2022 to assist Ukrainian prosecutors with the investigation of war crimes so the question is what is the plan what are you going to do with all this this evidence this dossier that you’ve um you’ve compiled yeah it’s a good it’s a good question so there’s a there’s a twin track really that we’ve been working on on this particular project and on in in the context of Maria Paul in the in the case of Ukraine in terms of um domestic prosecution so this information has been shared uh throughout with um our Ukrainian counterparts in the regional Prosecuting Office and the office of the prosecutor General in ke so they have all of this information and they have been instrumental in sharing information with us um for them they would need to be satisfied to the requisite standard for them to uh to issue a notice of Suspicion this is essentially a bit like the um applications for arrest warrants that we’ve seen on the international level it’s a pro procedural step that they would need to take that would notify the individual that the that they believe that there’s a criminal offense that has occurred um and listing out the perpetrators and the individual crimes in question and then at that point that person would be formally accused um of course in Ukraine they would need to apprehend the perpetrator and a trial would need to occur inside of Ukraine um so that would be the the next steps there investigations are ongoing we will continue to share any further information that we receive or or analyze but I do really want to to just Express um as we have done in the report that the Ukrainian um prosecution are really interested in in Witnesses coming forward for crimes occurring across you know of course inside the siege of marole but also more broadly across the region they are looking to take statements they’re looking to further their own investigations and case building and so as we have placed in the report we would really encourage people to come forward if you have information whether that’s witness testimony or whether that is um photographic or or documentary and then on the international stage um for example before the international criminal court as you know that there is an open investigation um we saw those arrest warrants in March um relating to critical infrastructure um in the context of marole for this report and for the information um again this is this has been shared already with the international Criminal Court um fresh warrants uh would need to be sought arrest warrants um for these particular crimes or um the the arrest warrants that we saw in March deal with a different time period it’s October to October 2022 to March 22 um but there really are countless ways in which the the siege of Maria constitutes these violations of international humanitarian law and international criminal law and so they have at their disposal a suite of crimes that they could pursue an arrest warrant for um as I said in March this was for critical um critical infrastructure but also inhumane acts which was the first time that crimes against humanity had been sought restaurants had been sought for that in the context of Ukraine so again I think for the international criminal court the next steps there would be would be over to them to process this information and and whether it falls within their current um investigation right okay so I this is going to be submitted to the office of the prosecutor at the ICC so it it the information the report has also has already been shared um the underlying intelligence reports will be shared uh separately and then we have in January a formal article 54 communication that will be combining both the Maria pole investigations and other lines of inquiry into a a single communication and and the ICC as we know as I know because I’ve been dealing with this on on several news stories um uh and also I suppose domestic law it prosecutes it doesn’t prosecute States it’s not going to prosecute Russia it will prosecute individuals um so the next question is do do have you identified any individuals are there names that you have on a list of you know commanders who whose arrest you might seek in connection with this crime yeah so we we have we’ve identified specific Russian and Pro Russian military units which appear to be involved directly or indirectly in support of specific attacks within the siege of Maria Paul um we’ve had a specific Focus within the report and the investigation and information that we’ve received so far on Russian um Aviation units um who appear to be responsible for the bombardment of key locations um because of our ongoing work with the office of the prosecutor and their ongoing case building um the investigation and identification of alleged perpetrators um is being kept completely confidential at this stage and the naming of those units and individuals have been withheld from this report um from the public report um but those um have been shared already uh with our counterparts and we’ll also form part of that confidential submission in January to the to the ICC okay so you you you have an idea of who you want to charge but you’re not telling us yes uh fair fair just just to be absolutely clear um so part of I mean part part of the massive significance of this is that that starvation as a war crime hasn’t really been a war crime for that long I mean you’ll correct me if I’m wrong I think it was outlawed under the 1998 1988 Rome statute to the international criminal court I think there’s something in in the amendments to the Geneva conventions in the 1970s as well but I it’s relatively recent and understand it’s never been prosecuted um the big Landmark event last month was Kareem Khan the chief prosecutor of the ICC issuing arest arrest or requesting sorry requesting arrest warrants um for Benjamin Netanyahu the Israeli Prime Minister and Y Gallant the Israeli defense minister for that crime um allegedly committed um in Gaza how do these two cases relate I mean are there similarities here do they play off one another would would would one being prosecuted set a precedent that would make the other easier to pursue or are they entirely separate pasts no it’s a really good question and and I would say just that the prohibition around starvation has been part of the Geneva conventions um the first time it was criminalized as you say was was under the Rome Statute in 98 um but in terms of its roots in international humanitarian law it’s well established um but there you’re also right to point out that there’s never been a prosecution at the international level um there has been components where starvation has formed part of other cases but it’s always been um prosecuted or investigated under other other crimes so in terms of the the importance and the significance of that application for an AR arrest warrant last month it really can’t be understated actually in terms of the work that we’ve been doing on this agenda for the last six years uh or seven years now I think um the the in many ways you know it’s always very difficult to compare two different situations and in many ways at first glance they are you know Polar Opposites um you know the both from a geopolitical point of view but also in terms of you know just the the food security of both of those countries pre and and now during the during the conflict Ukraine was really seen as one of Europe’s and indeed the world’s top agricultural producers really you know a highly sort of food secure um country whereas Gaza of course has had been part of this ongoing blockade imposed since 2007 and has had sustained food insecurity and these calorific restrictions imposed on it for a long time so the the differences and the severity of impact inside of both of those countries is is really different but the significance of that application and and the transparency around the prosecutor’s um how he’s articulated that crime in addition to the expert report that was put together to support the application for the arrest warrants has been really instructive in terms of how the ICC are viewing this crime and so seeing that it’s not just viewed as purely food and water but also in relation to fuel and electricity which of course would have a direct bearing on on the attacks that are happening uh not just in marip Paul but of course Across The Wider um aspects of Ukraine and that ongoing attack on critical infrastructure there um it was an incredibly significant moment to to see that being called for for the first time and certainly I think if those arrest warrants are uh granted uh and then if there were to be a trial it would be really helpful in as you say in in offering some form of precedent in being able to identify the Contour of this crime and how it would be prosecuted it’s something that we as an organization have been speculating and writing and analyzing and working with our prosecutorial Partners over the last um you number of years but to see that in in action to really see how it would be litigated and how it would be defended is something that is is certainly long overdue and would certainly help in understanding the framing of how we would use this and pursue this in the context of Ukraine well let’s just gently we’ve got a few more minutes just gently touch on that question of of how it would be defended in a way because I think you know for balance we have to point out that you know the Russians strongly deny committing any war crimes um we we know that you know the Israelis have reacted you know with great outrage at the suggestion that they crimes um I mean I I suppose defense in both cases in a way I can think of two things um that I might say if I was representing either of those and one is that um your suggestion that this is a pattern or a deliberate plan is you’re you’re linking stuff together um you know deliberately retroactively in actual fact this is just um the unfortunate collateral damage that takes place in war and there are rules around war that allow a certain degree of proportional collateral damage and we didn’t plan anything of the sort and I suppose the other thing which is slightly broader which is that you you started off in this conversation actually saying like sieges themselves are not you of themselves are legal right um so I might turn around and make the broader point of that look um what you’re suggesting the rules you’re imposing basically making War fighting impractical um and and impossible and that’s not realistic so the first one I suppose a quite specific kind of case by casee defense the second one’s a broader point about whether this stuff is really in possible could you give me your thoughts on it so in terms of kind of Defense perspectives and and how you would piece this together and and I mean I I spent a long time at um on the defense so um it’s it’s constantly in in my thoughts how how I would respond to this if I was representing um you know somebody from the other side and I think the the challenge around this is and and with this particular crime is that it’s a specific intent crime so it means that the intent is more important than the consequence or the conduct itself of course the consequences in the conduct will inform um you know prosecutors and investigators looking to see how this would be investigated and looking to see how we might be able to make an allegation that this was um you know deliberately a deliberate strategy of War um but what I would say is is that you know international criminal trials rely heavily on circum IR stantial evidence to to fill that Gap in in in intent and that is all about piecing together these uh strands of evidence that together really give what’s known as an irresistible inference it’s it’s um unavoidable that this would be the consequences if this continues or this conduct of pattern or conduct of hostilities was to continue and I think if we step back a little bit and it links a little bit Roland to your second question in terms of okay if the you know sieges are lawful and these parts of you know there are you know the conduct of hostilities and the way that you fight but if there is a complete disregard as you can see that there is both in the context of Ukraine and Gaza a complete disregard for the protection of civilians for the general principles and cornerstones of humanitarian law and how to fight in a way that is proportionate in a way that is you know targeting um military you know military targets um that there’s military necessity behind the conduct I think what we can see quite clearly in both of those cases is that that that is not being adhered to in in any shape or fashion um and so then how that becomes impractical in terms of you know enforcable and then impractical impractical in terms of being able to fight a lawful War you know it is it’s a it’s a broader question but I think there are very very clear rules and parameters um that are really well you know entrenched now and there are certain bright lines around conduct that you you know you just can and cannot do and I think what we can see time and time again with both of these context and certainly in the context of Ukraine and and this report in marul is that the basic fundamentals around International humanitarian law are being you know flagrantly disregarded and so I think that’s where it becomes easier for prosecutors to be able to start to piece together a case which shows that you know that there was an intention behind this that this wasn’t just collateral damage but actually the timing and Manner and pattern of these attacks show that this is not something that was just accidental or or a byproduct um and that really is kind of part and parcel of of the piece of work that we’ve been doing around this because for so long there’s been this assumption that starvation and these types of crimes just occur you know it is a byproduct it’s not something that’s that’s desired or intended um and I think when you drill down into the detail you can see that actually it is it is more of a pattern in some of these situations than than first appears what’s the point of doing this if you’re probably not ever going to get anyone in jail um and I don’t want to kind of take of your sales or appearal like I’m doing you down or or something like that but I mean I mean the reality is um you know there has to be a procedure to get an an arrest Warren someone might be named um Russia is not even a signatry to the IC the chance of them being handed over or arrested I think you probably agree very very low what’s the point of doing this if the chances of actually getting hold of the people responsible and putting them in jail are very distant I mean I I I would probably slightly disagree that they’re as distant as that um I think the the political will and the infrastructure of of support around Ukraine is something that is that is different and would lend itself to um more optimism potentially than than than you’ve outlined um and I you know I think international criminal law moves really slowly right so I mean we’re we’re only just finishing the Yugoslavia cases um you know however many years since that conflict ended um and so I think there is you know this is this is something that’s not going to happen in the next five seven years potentially but it could beyond that and so I think beyond the sort of ever The Optimist approach is that I think there’s a really important truth telling um component here that that for those that are suffering this indignity that are being killed or loved ones being killed or being forced to live in a way that is um inhuman it’s important that that is recognized through reports like this through um media coverage like this so that it isn’t seen as something that is just permitted that is allowed to just occur in the context of conflicts that are entirely unlawful in the context of what of both Gaza and Ukraine um so I think there’s a real important point about ammany and it’s alleviating the shame and indignity and and and calling out this behavior um so that the individuals who are impacted are able to see that this is something that is recognized as as an international crime or a human rights violation TR thank you very much and we’ve got 60 seconds I just want to throw one more thing at you it’s just occurred to me um what about impartiality um and we’ve seen the difficulties that the ICC request the ICC prosecutors request warrant for you know the Israeli Prime Minister right and there is a massive backlash from the countries that have basically you know set up and funded the ICC um you know because it’s it’s against one of their allies and it’s and it’s not convenient um in this case I suppose you know if you were a supporter of Russia you might say okay so you’re going after Russia for war crimes what about war crimes that may have been committed by by Ukrainian forces would you go after them with with with equal seal um Can there ever really be you know true judicial impartiality in you know the prosecution of war crimes and international humanitarian law or is it always doomed to basically be or to be seen as an extension of you know of geopolitics of alliances of of you know the sympathies of states and things like that I mean I I I think there can be and I and I think that’s where the role of you know um the the judges and the defense and the right to a fair trial and to have that um to have a a fair defense be put forward there is your opportunity to counteract any suggestions of impartiality or or um bias in terms of the way that cases are being investigated or situations are being selected I think I would also say that you know the prosecutors at the ICC and and in most jurisdictions that I know of certainly in my jurisdiction they’re they Duty bound to process exculpatory information so if they’re coming across any information that would indicate um you know the crimes are being committed by the Ukrainian side or that the crimes are not being committed by those that they’re in investigating then they’re Duty bound to both explore that and to share that with um the defense so I think there are mechanisms around the the trial and and in the investigation that Safeguard against impartiality I think you know that the IC has come under you know a lot of criticism rightly so under the years in terms of the selection of its situations it being primarily African um conflicts that they have looked at that is changing and I think with this new prosecutor the situations are being selected differently and so I do believe that there are mechanisms and safeguards around ensuring that that impartiality if there is any um is or or bias if there is any can be counted effectively Ukraine the latest is an original podcast from the telegraph to stay on top of all of our Ukraine news analysis and dispatches from the ground subscribe to the telegraph you can get your first three months for just1 at 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Day 834.

Today, we bring you the latest military updates from the front lines and discuss a recent report that alleges Russia deliberately starved civilians during the siege of Mariupol.

Contributors:

David Knowles (Host). @DJKnowles on X

Francis Dearnley (Assistant Comment Editor). @FrancisDearnley on X.

Dom Nicholls (Associate Editor, Defence). @DomNicholls on X.

Hamish De Bretton Gordon (Former NATO Tank Commander). @HamishDBG on X.

Roland Oliphant (Senior Foreign Reporter). @RolandOliphant on Twitter

Catriona Murdoch (Senior legal consultant at Global Rights Compliance). @CatrionaMurdoc1 on X.

Articles Referenced:

Hamish’s article: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/12/kyivs-wonder-weapons-are-decimating-the-russian-army/

Roland’s article:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/13/russia-bombed-food-sites-to-starve-mariupol-citizens/

Chalke Valley History Festival:

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