Behind German far-right party AfD’s ‘no to Ukraine’ in the EU

Behind German far-right party AfD’s ‘no to Ukraine’ in the EU

With me now is Beatrix von Storch, she’s the deputy leader of the AfD party group in German parliament, in the Bundestag. You just received a 1000 Euro fine for showing disrespect to a transgender MP. You’re one of the key faces of the AfD. Why would you do something like that? I didn’t show disrespect. I just called out a guy’s name, and his name is legally Markus, and I just called him Markus, and this is now no longer accepted, and I think this is unacceptable. I did not show disregard or anything. I was just calling him by his name and his legal name is Markus. He was elected as Markus into the parliament. We’re talking about Markus Ganserer, and… Tessa Ganserer. Tessa Ganserer, like she/he wants to be called. But you cannot pick your first name, not under our law at the very moment. So I think it’s idiotic to just, you know, pretend that anyone can pick his own pronoun or his first name or even his gender. So everyone is, you know, very happy to accept. Like you, you accept, but you wouldn’t accept if anybody else thinks he would be, you know, something else what he is not. He is a female, he’s a male, he’s a biological male and juridical – by law. He is by law a male, so no doubt about it. We are about to change the law about this, so everyone can pick his gender once a year, even kids, even if the parents do not agree. We think this is crazy and this is one of the reasons why people start to vote for us. This gives us support because people understand that this is just stupid. So clearly you are rejecting the right of people to choose their gender and that’s earned you a 1000 euro fine. You also weren’t in parliament when Volodymyr Zelenskyy was there, Ukraine’s president. Isn’t that showing disrespect to a leader who’s been attacked, whose country is under attack from Russia? We were afraid that this would be a show to ask even for more money and so forth. We have made our position very clear on the war on Ukraine. We are not neglecting this was, it is unlawful what the Russians did, to invade another country. Very clear, no doubt about it. But we didn’t want to participate, the majority of us, some of our members participated and others not. Four out of more than 70. That’s true. So you don’t feel… Would you do, make the same choice again if Zelenskyy was to speak in parliament? Didn’t you find it disrespectful? No, we will have a debate about it. And then we will find out what will be the schedule or what will be the issues he will be talking about. It’s not that we are saying we’ll never show up, but we have to debate it firsthand. Now one of the key messages from this party conference here in Essen is Alice Weidel, your re-elected party co-leader, basically rejecting the idea that Ukraine should join the European Union as a future prospect. What is your intention behind that and is this the conviction that is shared across the entire party? Yes this is shared in the whole of the party. No doubt about it. Ukraine is not able to join the European Union. We don’t want that. First, I think the European Union is in trouble, and we’re not even able within the European Union as it is now to organize ourselves, and to get everything fixed. So we do not need someone else, and to be honest, the Ukrainian economy has not been fit for joining the European Union even before the war. I think the budget of Ukraine has been something like 40 Billion. And if they would join the European Union, they would get likely the same amount from the European budget on top. So they would double their budget by joining the European Union. That’s not possible that this can work out, and they are not fit. They are not, corruption is high high high and if we would double their budget, their income, I think – without the war, let’s not think about the war – that’s impossible. So we have a very clear party line about this. We do not want to enlarge the European Union by no members at the very moment. By no members, especially not by Ukraine. Ukraine compared with Greece – Greece compared to Ukraine, is a rich organized country, and we know that we were in deep trouble with Greece as well. Indeed, you’re making it sound like it’s an economic question. But really it’s a strategic question for the European Union also, in how it views Russia and whether Russia is a partner or an adversary. It sounded a lot more pro-Russian here, more integrative of Russia. So what would you expect Ukraine to do? To give up some of its territory in order to facilitate Vladimir Putin coming to the table? What’s your expectation towards Ukraine? Well we do not want to enlarge the European Union, as I just said, when it comes to the topic of the European Union. When it comes to Russia, we advocate in favor of having diplomatic talks and to stop the fighting. We know who was the aggressor in the firsthand, that was Russia. But still, any war in the world, always has ended by peace talks in the very end. So we think this is a very good moment to start with this. It’s not in our hands, by the way, it’s not in our hands in Germany. Our impact, I would say, is close to zero, to get them together at the table. But it’s in our very interest to have good relations in the end also to Russia. We have got good relations, or trade relations, to any other country in the world, not to any other, but to most countries in the world, even though we do not accept the way they’re acting or we do not like their regimes and so forth. So I think it’s not very intelligent to look to Russia and try to make, you know, attack Russia with words, try to not have trade with Russia and this. So I think the approach of AfD has always been: it is in our very interest to have good relations to as many countries in the world as possible. We do not judge about, you know, the system of the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, for example, we do not judge about other illegitimate governments in the world maybe, and so we think in our interest it has been and should be to have a good relation to Russia. Actually, most of what you said is something that would be shared pretty much across the board, only there’s something major that has happened: Russia has attacked a country and it attacked Ukraine. So in order to make talks possible, the expectation by Vladimir Putin is that Ukraine gives up some of its territory, not just Crimea, but including regions that are currently not… where there are no Russian troops. So what in concrete do you expect from Ukraine? To give up territory in order to make talks possible? We expect them to start talking and to stop fighting, both sides. How would you make that happen? How would you get Vladimir Putin to come to the negotiating table without preconditions? I think what we should do as German country, we should stop delivering weapons. We do not believe in a peacemaking process by delivering more and more weapons. This is what we do not believe in. We think that’s not intelligent. We don’t think that that is supporting the peace process in that area. There’s no peace process. So would you expect Ukraine to surrender essentially? We can only do what we can do. And the only impact we have is in the way we’re delivering weapons, for example, support the war, to keep it ongoing. I think the war would have ended if there would not have been so many weapons delivered to Ukraine, and then we would have peace talks. Then Russia would have won, essentially, and would have gained Ukrainian territory. So you are willing to pay that price. We are willing to have peace and we are not willing to deliver weapons. OK, let’s move on to the European Union. We’ve had elections, the AfD has been gaining, has gained in those elections. But you don’t really have a home faction in the European Parliament. To come to also your top two candidates are under suspicion. Number one Mr. Krah of having been infiltrated at the very least by China, and Mr. Bystron of potentially having taken money from Russia. Where does that leave you in the European Parliament also having lost support from Marine Le Pen? Well that’s an ongoing process at the very moment, as you know. The groups in the parliament are about to be set up. But still there is negotiation ongoing also between Marine Le Pen and Orban from Fidesz, Hungary, and Meloni, and so the groups are about to be set up. It’s not yet clear who will end up where. Some Czechs might leave from the Renew group and join the ID group from Marine Le Pen. So still everything’s on the table, and we’re just in-between those different groups and we will see what will be possible in the very end. We’re trying to set up an own group. Yes, we would have preferred to be in the ID group. We do see that this at the very moment seems to be difficult. So we are trying to get something, our own group together. We’re not taking in everybody. There are clear red lines. But still this process has not yet been finished. Will your top candidate Maximilian Krah be part of the AfD group? No he will not. He has been excluded by those who have to take the decisions. That’s in the hand of our elected members to the Brussels parliament. We have got a delegation leader, René Aust, who is now responsible to set up the group, and I think they have taken the decision already and I do not see that this will be changed. René Aust was number three on your list. So what have you personally, as a politician, learned from that very experience? Because that’s been rather bruising for you, hasn’t it? Yes, our own campaign has not been perfect, to put it very polite. We made mistakes and we had mistakes by our top candidates, our top candidate, and I think we are now here on our party convention and you can see that the party is growing and getting adult. We are learning from our mistakes. It was a mistake to have this candidate in a top position. But this was accepted now by basically all the members here on the convention. If we make mistakes, we will learn from those mistakes and we will not repeat those mistakes Now, here at the party conference, your party’s been closing ranks, actually quite excitedly looking ahead to those regional elections in three eastern states where you are predicted, you’re currently polling, hovering around 30 percentage points. What is your expectation there, and when is it a success for you? 30 plus? Where would that leave you? Yes, we are heading towards those elections and we’re not only heading by 30 percent, were heading to be number one in all those eastern states, and where does that bring us? Well, we are getting closer to take over responsibility for the country, maybe first for some regions. This is what happened to all those other allies in the European Parliament as well, all those right-wing populist parties, who are now in charge of a government or close to win their election, for example, Marine Le Pen. And I think that’s the way AfD is also going, and we will have the next step on this way in those elections to come. Do feel that you’re ready to be in regional or national government? Would you dare a prediction when your own goal is that you would achieve that? I would say if I look to the government at the very moment, you know, we have got an author for books for children as a minister for economy, our foreign minister, you know, is not capable of basically anything, is not able to make one straight sentence. So if you look to the personnel of the government, I would say yes, we’ve got better people than that. Well that’s your personal opinion on the performance of the government. But when do you feel that your own party is ready and will actually manage to get into a regional or into the national government? We will be ready the moment it happens. Beatrix von Storch, Deputy Parliamentary Group Leader of the far-right AfD party, Thank you.

A leading figure of the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) party told DW News that Ukraine should not join the European Union. Beatrix von Storch also called for a halt to German weapon deliveries to Kyiv, an end to the fighting in Ukraine and the start of negotiations with Russia to cease hostilities.
The AfD deputy parliamentary group leader also shared her views on transgender rights, the results of the recent EU parliamentary elections and the upcoming regional elections in eastern Germany, where the AfD is projected to gain ground.
DW’s Chief Political Editor Michaela Küfner spoke to von Storch at an AfD party convention in the German town of Essen.

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