Nuclear situation more dangerous than it was during Cold War? | DW News

Nuclear situation more dangerous than it was during Cold War? | DW News

at 75 most of us hope to be enjoying the perks of retirement and taking things a little bit slower well for NATO that couldn’t be further from the truth it’s been 75 years since the US Canada and Western European countries forged an alliance to deter Soviet expansionism keep peace in Europe and encourage European political integration what began with just 12 members has now grown into an alliance of 32 Nations today their leaders and partners are meeting in Washington for a summit that will be much more than just a birthday celebration the challenges facing them are many some old some new supplying Ukraine with what it needs to fight off Russia’s Invasion will be top of the agenda so once again NATO faces the question of how to contain Russia but the big picture is more complicated now among other issues leaders are seeking ways to push back against Russia China North Korea and Iran in the inop Pacific region DW’s Enis P reports NATO was created on a promise the US and Western Europe would defend each other as they would defend themselves their common enemy then the Soviet Union after the end of the Cold War the West seemed to have won but Russia’s invasion of Ukraine more than two years ago changed everything NATO suddenly became relevant again and its future is now in the political Spotlight When leaders from member countries Gather in Washington it’s not just for a birthday party and a celebration of its recent expansion to 32 member states they’ll also discuss changes already taken in those still necessary in response of Russia’s Invasion to Ukraine they’ll be anxiously looking at America’s future engagement and they’ll be also looking Beyond Europe NATO’s increased presence in the Indo Pacific region is designed to defend democracy and protect a region crucial to the global economy but some say this increased presence will not be welcome um I think NATO and its member states and other European institutions do suffer from uh uh charges of double standards uh or hypocrisy when it comes to uh universalizing their mission um and the feeling in many parts of the global South is that uh uh those standards only apply when uh European security or NATO interests are at stake uh but are conveniently set aside when other country share similar concerns about things happening in in their regions and their countries considering the many conflict zones in which NATO is engaged it’s likely to need more money that makes the question of how American support will look in the future even more important some are asking even if the United States government keeps paying money will they continue paying attention regardless of who the next president of the United States is and regardless of what political agenda he or she has the Americans might focus more on the Indo Pacific for reasons involving China and other factors and if they do that it’s not certain that they will be able to maintain their engagement in Europe to the same extent as in the past decades and if that’s the case if that Happ then we must prepare ourselves for it that is the challenge we must collectively face in Europe and the prospect of a second Donald Trump presidency puts a shadow over all of this well I think Trump will cause NATO severe difficulties even if he doesn’t withdraw although I think it’s more likely he will withdraw outwardly the summit will celebrate NATO’s 75e success story but delegates will be res wrestling with many existential questions and I’m joined Now by Rose Giller she was the deputy Secretary General of NATO for three years under Secretary General in stoltenberg today she’s a lecturer at Stanford’s University Freeman spoley Institute for international studies welcome to the day of Rose now this Summit marks NATO’s 75th Anniversary where do you see NATO at 75 at 75 I see NATO as uh surprisingly strong and coherent organization it is the I would say longest surviving Alliance in history and it has in recent years continue to build and develop its strength and coherence in uh really countering this aggression uh helping Ukraine to fight uh Russia and to push back against Russian aggression in Europe and so I do think that the alliance is at its 75th birthday in a uh relatively good spot at least in terms of its internal coherence and its strength the purpose looking at the state of the world more broadly and with one of your areas of expertise being Arms Control do you think we’re now in a more dangerous nuclear situation than we were during the Cold War frankly it’s true that Vladimir Putin has been rattling this the nuclear saber as well as his uh loyal deputies throughout this uh war in Ukraine I think frankly that the greatest in some ways threat has passed there was a time in uh October November of 2022 when the Russians thought they were losing and they seemed to be ready to pull uh the nuclear trigger but now uh they seem to be in I think they think they’re in a better situation so although they continue to threaten nuclear use I think in the end of the day that they feel more confident in their conventional capabilities now and they’re playing a waiting game also they think that time is on their side in this war you were the first and to this day only woman to serve as Deputy Secretary General of NATO there has never been a female Secretary General I want to know from you cuz you know the alliance from the inside you know the structures is NATO still a boys club to this day well I hope I won’t long be the first and only Deputy Secretary General of NATO who’s a female but we’ll see what happens there will be a new deputy secretary General selected at the same time that Mark Ruta is uh assuming his post as the new Secretary General so I think it’s a a good moment to think about who the next one might be as a female but um you know it’s interesting I have seen a big change in NATO even in the time I was there I think when I arrived in 2016 in October yes NATO was still uh significantly a boys club but in that time and I give Yan stoltenberg and his assistant secretaries General full credit for this they have really pushed hard to bring women into not only the top leader ship of the organization but where it’s important to change the culture and that is into middle and lower management levels as well so I really do think that NATO is in a better place than it was in 2016 when I arrived what are the effects of giving more women a seat at the table at a place like NATO a defense Alliance I think that having women at the table in any uh event uh brings a different problemsolving Dynamic uh women don’t tend to get into the same Zero Sum standoffs that men can sometimes get into when they’re butting heads women are willing to look around for uh ways to to bring the temperature down and and to try to find a solution that makes sense for everybody they’re also very good at bringing a lot of stakeholders to the table and making sure that everybody is satisfied so that in the end of the day you don’t have kind of uh attempts to undo a decision uh in the in the back offices and in the quds so I think in many ways having more women managers at at NATO at every level has helped uh the alliance to be a better organization now that you mentioned stakeholders many of them are in Washington this week what’s at stake for the alliance and its Partners at the summit I think really the resolve of NATO uh is uh the big question on the table the resolve to continue its assistance to Ukraine front and center but also the resolve to continue to move into the future because there’s a lot going on in Innovation and Technology there’s a a lot of developments we’re seeing on the ground in Ukraine in terms of the use of drones and so forth so many many changes occurring and how war will be fought in the future and NATO needs to stay ahead of that curve so technology and Innovation how will NATO adapt how will NATO continue to move into the future as an effective military and fighting force this is going going to be a very important aspect of of what NATO is working on as well at this Summit and it’s a big challenge because it’s expensive it requires those Investments that some NATO member states have been reluctant to make in the past they’re doing better now much better but nevertheless it will be a big resource uh investment in future yeah President Joe Biden hosts this Summit and he does so under intense scrutiny how big a role do you expect the discussion about his Fitness for office to play at the meeting well you know Joe Biden is uh our most experienced politician in my view and over the years he has taken an enormous amount of interest in foreign and defense policy so he is also very experienced in terms of the NATO agenda and in terms of what is a priority for NATO so I do believe that he uh is certainly in terms of his experience and knowledge he is a very fit and ready uh to continue that that leadership role of course his age has been a huge question in our election campaign it uh really burst even more onto the scene after the debacle of the debate with with Mr Trump a couple of weeks ago but uh I do hope that members uh will find that the president is focused on the issues that matter to them and also the issues that matter to Future strength and coherence of NATO do you think NATO allies and partners are right to be concerned about Biden after all these episodes that you just named I think it’ll be up to President Biden uh during this Summit meeting to uh convey that he is as he’s said time and time again ready to carry his presidency forward into a second term and so he’s going to have to make that case to the Allies there’s no question because there are many many questions uh on the table so he’s going to have to to uh answer to those concerns and uh I think he will be able to do so but uh a lot depends on um you know what else has happen happening in the world these days and uh these days there are pressures AR arising from all directions uh referring to the terrible attack that the Russians perpetrated on a children’s hospital in Kev I’m expected and expecting and worried about more such Mischief as the summit unfolds yeah now whether or not he’ll be able to reassure Partners there are serious doubts about whether he’ll be able to beat Donald Trump what would a second Trump term mean for the alliance well you know I was Deputy Secretary General of NATO during Trump’s first term in office and I saw him uh during uh several Summit meetings at NATO he was unrelenting clearly in pushing the the alliance to spend more the Allies in Europe and Canada to spend more on their own defense and they had committed at uh Wales The Summit in Wales in 2014 after Putin invaded Crimea they committed to spend 2% of their gross domestic prod product on on uh defense and so Trump was unrelenting pressure was very high but to be honest with you Secretary General Stenberg my boss and I felt that it was important that the president was pressing this point American presidents from Jack Kennedy on have said that the Allies are freeloading they need to be spending more on their own defense the United States cannot carry the burden alone and so that message in some ways was very welcome so I say Trump got the momentum going during his first in office I think he’ll be pleased now that more allies have stepped up 23 out of 32 allies are now spending 2% of GDP on defense that’s because of Putin and the threat he poses yeah but he’s also made remarks along the lines that that countries that don’t reach that 2% kind of goal would be in a way and I’m paraphrasing here a fair game for Russia where does that leave NATO as a whole because that defeats the purpose doesn’t it well Trump says a lot uh on the campaign trail that uh I don’t know if he would bring into office with him if you can say anything about Donald Trump he is unpredictable but I think it’s going to be up to the Allies those remaining nine allies who have not reached 2% of GDP to really get themselves into gear and and work to approach that uh that level because the Allies are also agreeing at this Summit interestingly that 2% is not a ceiling it’s a floor and that that all allies need to be prepared to spend more on their own defense uh and go beyond 2% of GDP so there are there’s not going to be any space for the laggards essentially and I think that that will have to be a very strong message coming out of this uh this Summit as for Trump’s uh threats that we would have a kind of two-speed alliance with uh some countries uh you know under the protection of the article 5 uh treaty commitment to defend them should they be attacked and others not because they haven’t spent enough uh you know this is a recipe for tearing the alliance apart so I think it’s it’s an idiotic idea and frankly uh it’s going to be something that the Allies are going to have to to I think work hard to address should Trump come back into office again now we are celebrating or NATO is celebrating the 75th Anniversary this year 75 years from now do you think NATO will still exist well 75 years from now it would be wonderful wouldn’t it if the uh if all the principles the UN Charter were equally embraced and uh and agreed by every country around the world and there was no more aggression and no more threats to sovereignty and territorial Integrity so uh I would hope for that Nirvana to appear but I kind of doubt it so yes I think there’ll be a role for NATO 75 years from now and uh I think it could come into that 70 uh at that point 150th birthday as strong and coherent as as ever that was Rose gotam former deputy sec Secretary General of NATO pleasure speaking to you thank you so much for making the time my pleasure

It’s been 75 years since the US, Canada, and Western European countries forged an alliance to deter Soviet expansionism, keep peace in Europe and encourage European political integration. What began with just 12 members has now grown into an alliance of 32 nations.

Now, their leaders and partners are meeting in Washington for a summit, a lot is at stake: Supplying Ukraine with what it needs to fight off Russia’s invasion will be top of the agenda. So once again NATO faces the question of how to contain Russia. But the big picture is more complicated now. Among other issues, leaders are seeking ways to push back against Russia, China, North Korea and Iran in the Indo-Pacific region.

00:00 The state of the world at stake?
04:03 Rose Gottemoeller, Former NATO Deputy Secretary-General

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