@BryanLindstrom4 You don’t “make” $15/hr. You “make” 100s or 1000s of $$ worth of product each hour and sell it for $15 each hour. You didn’t make anything for yourself. You sold an hour of your life and your body for $15. Don’t let them convince you otherwise. Your labor value is getting stolen
It annoys me so much that this isn’t common knowledge
Then go and make something for yourself and see if you are able to add enough value to pay yourself $15 an hour.
Unionize. If you have a competitive skill, you have leverage and will thus get paid more. It is a part of the free market system.
Edit: Thank you all for your comments. it does actually solve the problem. The workers did not do LLC formation. They have no stake in the company failing. They did not take out the loan nor gathered investors to create the infrastructure for that company to be successful. Therefore, the buisiness owner logically deserves more of the cut because they are running everything and they bear most of the risk. If a company fails, the workers can just move on while the business owner goes bankrupt.
If you are a McDonald’s worker, why should you get paid the same as a skilled welder? Again the more competitive your skill the more leverage you have for getting better wages. A mcdonlads union will not have as much leverage over a welders union. We live in a competitive system just like nature. Compete and compete to win.
I am against union busting, but I am also against union extortion. I believe in good faith negotiation of wages whether you are in a union or not (I am conservative as you can tell, and I don’t support republican nor democrat union busting).
This is ass backwards. It’s based on the just world hypothesis that ties your worth and rights as a human being, to your employment. You’re fighting a battle on the grounds the already wealthy chose to better exploit you.
If you weren’t already indoctrinated with classist propaganda, it would be obvious that it is the government’s job to care for it’s citizenry, it is the businesses’ job be productive and compete to increase efficiency, and it is the individual’s job to develop the emotional intelligence to know what contracts and competitions they actually want to participate in.
Trying to make business responsible for the wellbeing of the people just gives power to employers over the citizenry. While also making any business that tries to do the right thing, less competitive. We need honestly progressive taxation, and UBI + UBS. That is what is better for the people and our businesses productivity and global competitiveness.
What?
You know who says stuff like this? Idiots. Idiots who can do nothing BUT labor for a living
And they act as if your time is a commodity. As if you are going to live forever. Don’t worry about working at this soul crushing shitty job! This is just a stepping stone to a fabulous future! Everyone has to pay his dues on the bottom for years and years. You will live forever.
Most minimum wage jobs are in the retail, grocery and hospitality industries, which all have famously low profit margins, averaging under 10%, I believe. So no, you couldn’t really be paid that much more, without pricing rising significantly.
No one robs you more than the capitalist you work for.
It’s what capitalist heroes Adam Smith and David Ricardo believed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value
Marx explains it much better than wikipedia in Capital Vol 1 or in Wage, Labor, and Value if you want a shorter read.
Then find a better paying job.
This shows a primitive understanding of where value comes from. There are reasons that communism is laughed out of modern discussions of economics – and this is one of them.
Try making 100s of thousands of $ worth of any product. Most likely you can’t – because it takes a large team to create and manufacture products. The person selling them for $15 an hour is just the tip of the iceberg. There are lots of real problems with capitalism – stealing labor value isn’t one of them (though abusing or underpaying labor all to often is).
I work for a manufacturing company. What I produce a day is worth thousands of dollars. But I don’t own or maintain the machines and tools I used to build, I didn’t own or maintain the building, lights, air vents, or anything on the property. I’m also not responsible for settling any debts if the place went under. That’s why I make 22 dollars sm hour. It’s because I accrue none of the risk or maintenance required to keep the company running.
Seems like you don’t have that factory though.
No. YOU MAKE $15 PER HOUR.
Just because you’re the cashier for the burger joint doesn’t make the burger yours. Whether the store sells 1 burger or 100 burgers, you still get your $15 an hour. The owner pays for the buns, meat, lettuce, tomato, cheese, ketchup, mustard, and mayo. The owner pays for the building, the electricity, the gas, the water, the AC, the uniforms, the equipment, the tables, the chairs, soda machines, licensing, and insurance.
You ARE being paid for your labor value, because that’s the only value you add. All of the other value is provided by the owner. These are basic microeconomic concepts.
When did r/economy become r/socialism?
To actually do that there’s a lot of infrastructure. You are paid 15 because that’s what your work is actually worth to the company. If you think is worth 1000s, by all means go outside and do it.
This is incredibly stupid
You made a sandwich using ingredients and technology created and paid for by someone else. You didn’t produce shit. You assembled shit produced by other people using their equipment. That sandwich never would have gotten produced if it were just you
This generation wants everything for free, just because they were born.Y’all clearly haven’t been punched enough, or even shot at.
This is like arguing the gym should pay you for expending your efforts on their equipment.
🐒
Let’s take McD as an example. After taxes, MCD has a net profit of $8.5B.
MCD has 150k employees. Let’s say they make $20/hour. After taxes they make $34k.
Worker earns $34k while McDonalds earns $56k
Worker “makes” $17/hr after taxes.
Employer makes $28/hr after taxes.
This is in pocket net for the MCD. After costs, rent, overhead, bills, etc. This is Pocket change that McD can do anything with.
Would it be fair to subtract rent/food for the employee making a living to make this comparison comparable?
This is basically a Marxist critique of capitalism
He’s right IMO. Surprised to see this view upvoted to the degree it has.
I never understood this. Labor is only one input that makes something valuable
I agree people aren’t making enough but this is a stupid argument. If he is making 1000s of dollars worth of value he should go out and do it himself, why not keep all those dollars to himself?
That is what Karl Marx argued. As if none of the other factor inputs into a product mattered, only your labor.
Oh, Karl, you so crazy!
Seriously.This marxist shit has been debunked for decades.
Lol, marxism.
I wouldn’t say it’s getting stolen, the labour is sold willingly.
29 comments
It annoys me so much that this isn’t common knowledge
Then go and make something for yourself and see if you are able to add enough value to pay yourself $15 an hour.
Unionize. If you have a competitive skill, you have leverage and will thus get paid more. It is a part of the free market system.
Edit: Thank you all for your comments. it does actually solve the problem. The workers did not do LLC formation. They have no stake in the company failing. They did not take out the loan nor gathered investors to create the infrastructure for that company to be successful. Therefore, the buisiness owner logically deserves more of the cut because they are running everything and they bear most of the risk. If a company fails, the workers can just move on while the business owner goes bankrupt.
If you are a McDonald’s worker, why should you get paid the same as a skilled welder? Again the more competitive your skill the more leverage you have for getting better wages. A mcdonlads union will not have as much leverage over a welders union. We live in a competitive system just like nature. Compete and compete to win.
I am against union busting, but I am also against union extortion. I believe in good faith negotiation of wages whether you are in a union or not (I am conservative as you can tell, and I don’t support republican nor democrat union busting).
This is ass backwards. It’s based on the just world hypothesis that ties your worth and rights as a human being, to your employment. You’re fighting a battle on the grounds the already wealthy chose to better exploit you.
If you weren’t already indoctrinated with classist propaganda, it would be obvious that it is the government’s job to care for it’s citizenry, it is the businesses’ job be productive and compete to increase efficiency, and it is the individual’s job to develop the emotional intelligence to know what contracts and competitions they actually want to participate in.
Trying to make business responsible for the wellbeing of the people just gives power to employers over the citizenry. While also making any business that tries to do the right thing, less competitive. We need honestly progressive taxation, and UBI + UBS. That is what is better for the people and our businesses productivity and global competitiveness.
What?
You know who says stuff like this? Idiots. Idiots who can do nothing BUT labor for a living
And they act as if your time is a commodity. As if you are going to live forever. Don’t worry about working at this soul crushing shitty job! This is just a stepping stone to a fabulous future! Everyone has to pay his dues on the bottom for years and years. You will live forever.
Most minimum wage jobs are in the retail, grocery and hospitality industries, which all have famously low profit margins, averaging under 10%, I believe. So no, you couldn’t really be paid that much more, without pricing rising significantly.
No one robs you more than the capitalist you work for.
It’s what capitalist heroes Adam Smith and David Ricardo believed:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value
Marx explains it much better than wikipedia in Capital Vol 1 or in Wage, Labor, and Value if you want a shorter read.
Then find a better paying job.
This shows a primitive understanding of where value comes from. There are reasons that communism is laughed out of modern discussions of economics – and this is one of them.
Try making 100s of thousands of $ worth of any product. Most likely you can’t – because it takes a large team to create and manufacture products. The person selling them for $15 an hour is just the tip of the iceberg. There are lots of real problems with capitalism – stealing labor value isn’t one of them (though abusing or underpaying labor all to often is).
I work for a manufacturing company. What I produce a day is worth thousands of dollars. But I don’t own or maintain the machines and tools I used to build, I didn’t own or maintain the building, lights, air vents, or anything on the property. I’m also not responsible for settling any debts if the place went under. That’s why I make 22 dollars sm hour. It’s because I accrue none of the risk or maintenance required to keep the company running.
Seems like you don’t have that factory though.
No. YOU MAKE $15 PER HOUR.
Just because you’re the cashier for the burger joint doesn’t make the burger yours. Whether the store sells 1 burger or 100 burgers, you still get your $15 an hour. The owner pays for the buns, meat, lettuce, tomato, cheese, ketchup, mustard, and mayo. The owner pays for the building, the electricity, the gas, the water, the AC, the uniforms, the equipment, the tables, the chairs, soda machines, licensing, and insurance.
You ARE being paid for your labor value, because that’s the only value you add. All of the other value is provided by the owner. These are basic microeconomic concepts.
When did r/economy become r/socialism?
To actually do that there’s a lot of infrastructure. You are paid 15 because that’s what your work is actually worth to the company. If you think is worth 1000s, by all means go outside and do it.
This is incredibly stupid
You made a sandwich using ingredients and technology created and paid for by someone else. You didn’t produce shit. You assembled shit produced by other people using their equipment. That sandwich never would have gotten produced if it were just you
This generation wants everything for free, just because they were born.Y’all clearly haven’t been punched enough, or even shot at.
This is like arguing the gym should pay you for expending your efforts on their equipment.
🐒
Let’s take McD as an example. After taxes, MCD has a net profit of $8.5B.
MCD has 150k employees. Let’s say they make $20/hour. After taxes they make $34k.
Worker earns $34k while McDonalds earns $56k
Worker “makes” $17/hr after taxes.
Employer makes $28/hr after taxes.
This is in pocket net for the MCD. After costs, rent, overhead, bills, etc. This is Pocket change that McD can do anything with.
Would it be fair to subtract rent/food for the employee making a living to make this comparison comparable?
People naively rediscovering the [labour theory of value](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value) is adorable.
This is basically a Marxist critique of capitalism
He’s right IMO. Surprised to see this view upvoted to the degree it has.
I never understood this. Labor is only one input that makes something valuable
I agree people aren’t making enough but this is a stupid argument. If he is making 1000s of dollars worth of value he should go out and do it himself, why not keep all those dollars to himself?
That is what Karl Marx argued. As if none of the other factor inputs into a product mattered, only your labor.
Oh, Karl, you so crazy!
Seriously.This marxist shit has been debunked for decades.
Lol, marxism.
I wouldn’t say it’s getting stolen, the labour is sold willingly.
What a dumb take.