How about we fix the system? 6 months wait for a learners exam is absurd. instead of making it more difficult and costly for people to learn we make it easier to learn how to drive properly and then roads are safer for everyone.
I know it was 15 years ago but my lessons and test were a total of about €230 which as an 18 year old, I could afford over a few months. It’s about €1000 now to get yourself roadworthy so no wonder this is happening
Mad stat
Also shows the value of knowing what the circumstances of a crash were to add nuance to the national conversation that’s been occurring
Absolutely ridiculous that the RSA won’t publish even anonymised statistics relating to crashes
We really need to have something like the American drivers education in our secondary school. I’m an older driver but not that long passed my driving test, never drove on my learner licence unless with my driving instructor, and the reality is nobody learns to safely drive after 12 lessons it’s just not the reality of it. So I think learning the rules of the road in school followed by 12 mandatory lessons in school paid by the state would be a great way to have safer drivers, after that they could do 12 more paid lessons from themselves and then sit the driving test. That way it’s 24 lessons which is more realistic for students to be safer drivers with the state sharing the cost, and the probability of passing first time is higher so no need for learners to risk driving on their own.
Proportionally is it higher or lower on average than full licence holders?
It’s incredibly expensive and awkward to get driving now, and public transport is effectively nonexistent outside the cities. Until that gets fixed, people are going to chance driving alone on Learner Driver licenses because they simply do not have an alternative.
You can’t work without driving, you can’t find somewhere to live that you don’t need to drive, you can’t get anyone to a hospital without driving, you can’t get anywhere to stay close to college so you need to drive, etc etc etc
In fact, you can’t get driving without driving, because as instructors themselves acknowledge the mandatory lessons aren’t nearly enough and you probably can’t get enough of them lined up in a short enough time to retain most of it, so they take it for granted you’re driving off the books to get experience.
It’s unsurprising for a few reasons. You have to have your own car or access to someone else’s car plus access to another person willing to give up their time to go out with you, which for some people isn’t possible. I passed in 2021 and was a terror to my parents begging them to accompany me so I could practice, grateful they did but it was annoying I am sure. The hours driving with family got my confidence up much more than instructors did, most of them seemed disengaged, half my lessons were just signed off on regardless of what was actually covered.
Alternatively you can shell out 50-80 quid per lesson for an hour’s driving with an instructor that will likely involve a few weeks’ wait. Let’s say you’ve been driving on L plates for a year or so, are confident, and want to get on with your life like driving yourself to work, etc. It’s frustrating to be left on hold waiting 6 to 12 months for a driving exam where your level of ability isn’t going to increase just because you passed it.
It is a rock and a hard place, not sure what the actual solution is. People obviously ignore the law and drive solo on L plates, maybe the government could make it mandatory to pass your 12 lessons plus a limited amount of driving hours accompanied before allowing people on L plates to drive solo? There are people on the road with full licenses who are more dangerous anyway so who knows, maybe the Gardai could stop being useless in general.
It’s ok. They are halving the speed limits to fix it.
I remember my first driving lesson. My instructor was convinced I had driven before because I was in my (end of) thirties, although I told her I hadn’t (grew up in a mid town in Germany with functioning public transport and no 2k money for getting a license, then moved to Berlin where you’re slower with a car than with public transport …and also no 2k for a license 🤷♀️).
Either that was her thought process or she was suicidal 🤨 she directed me to a national road with 100km/h, then was busy with her mobile while I had one of the worst panic attacks in my life because LADY I HAVEN’T DRIVEN A CAR BEFORE AND WHAT THE FUCK???
Changed instructors right after that, and was basically trained for passing the driving test. Reverse around the corner, but not explaining how to apply that for parking (I still cannot park backwards, because I just don’t know how, and it’s been years). Parallel parking? Never heard of her. I learned manual, but that I should shift down when overtaking to get more rev for the buck? Never been told. I actually taught my instructor the Dutch reach, he was super confused when I did that. But hey, as a lady, make sure to wear dangling ear rings so the tester sees you’re moving your head during the test 😐
All the while I didn’t have anybody to practice driving with, but bought a car for back then 750€ to basically just drive on the parking lot (yeah didn’t help much).
I haven’t learned how to merge because we don’t have merge roads nearby. Of course no motorway because learner. Myriads of country roads where I could have learned ‘oh a car comes towards me, I need to reverse STRAIGHT and then a bit’ but I learned either on town roads or two lane roads. I had a lesson cancelled because of heavy rain??? Isn’t that perfect to learn how to drive in such conditions?
I passed my test (second time, first time I was too left for my left turn. No idea what that meant because I didn’t hit a curb or anything but yeah), and before I had my test I was told by my instructor where I should stop when driving out of the rear center because ‘thats where most people fail instantly’. IT’S A MARKED STOP. If you need to tell people to stop at a marked stop, otherwise they fail, they are not in fact ready for their test.
Long rant short: we need better instructors whose goal is not ‘pass the test’s tests’ but to make somebody a safe driver. We need better testers who are not just either testing the 4 things and nod, or fail without giving explanation or being checked themselves.
I’m can’t see what valid point this campaign against learner drivers has.
At the end of the day being on a permit is subject to a number of stringent regulations. Applying for multiple permits isn’t some loophole, it’s still illegal to drive unaccompanied. The Gardaí have had the power to enforce these for a decade.
Making it even harder for learner drivers because of the minority of people that break the law is action for the sake of action.
Classifying everyone who has never attained a valid full driver’s license as a learner driver is like attributing the 9/11 hijackings to student pilots. The hijackers didn’t hold full pilot licenses, many of those labeled as ‘learner drivers’ may have no legitimate association with learning to drive. This misclassification skews road safety data and unfairly blames learner drivers for incidents they may not be involved in.
It’s the weather , I’d love to see wet v dry weather stat, we have no way of teaching them how to drive in the wet , loads of other countries have wet weather courses to teach them that , even on gravel or loose chippings
It’s an awful statistic yet unsurprising. This is a symptom of too many unqualified drivers on the road.
What’s going to happen is insurance is going to go through the roof for learners, or just become more unaffordable.
Saw a twat the other day driving pretty fast and texting, the car was slightly swerving. It’s infuriating. I’m sure there must be talk to text apps people can use, maybe the government needs to make it mandatory.
No idea why they just didn’t say what it was instead of meandering.
93% of learners drivers who died were unaccompanied.
It took 14 months from when I applied for my license test until I got the first exam. The entire time, my driving instructor and many other people around me said I should just drive on the learner permit. Car dealerships will let you buy a car on a learner permit, and insurance companies will sell coverage. Everyone winks and says, “of course you’ll be accompanied”, and the insurance doesn’t cover you if you aren’t, of course. I opted to walk a lot and take some slow buses.
People have to drive to work, and Ireland’s license exams are failing those people. Public transit coverage and reliability is terrible. This is not a surprising outcome.
I’ve been waiting for about 9 months for my driving test. It took my partner about 15 months before her test was finally scheduled. You think people who immigrate here are just going to not live their lives when these types of waits exist? Fix the broken license process and instead you will have people with full licenses having fatal crashes.
Want to fix the fatal crashes? Lower the speed limit for smaller roads and start having field sobriety tests with video recordings that can be brought to court instead of these expensive and ineffective roadside chemical tests.
This is a consequence of no road policing anywhere, people doing what the hell they want
19 comments
14/15
Shows the lack of policing is yet again an issue.
How about we fix the system? 6 months wait for a learners exam is absurd. instead of making it more difficult and costly for people to learn we make it easier to learn how to drive properly and then roads are safer for everyone.
I know it was 15 years ago but my lessons and test were a total of about €230 which as an 18 year old, I could afford over a few months. It’s about €1000 now to get yourself roadworthy so no wonder this is happening
Mad stat
Also shows the value of knowing what the circumstances of a crash were to add nuance to the national conversation that’s been occurring
Absolutely ridiculous that the RSA won’t publish even anonymised statistics relating to crashes
We really need to have something like the American drivers education in our secondary school. I’m an older driver but not that long passed my driving test, never drove on my learner licence unless with my driving instructor, and the reality is nobody learns to safely drive after 12 lessons it’s just not the reality of it. So I think learning the rules of the road in school followed by 12 mandatory lessons in school paid by the state would be a great way to have safer drivers, after that they could do 12 more paid lessons from themselves and then sit the driving test. That way it’s 24 lessons which is more realistic for students to be safer drivers with the state sharing the cost, and the probability of passing first time is higher so no need for learners to risk driving on their own.
Proportionally is it higher or lower on average than full licence holders?
It’s incredibly expensive and awkward to get driving now, and public transport is effectively nonexistent outside the cities. Until that gets fixed, people are going to chance driving alone on Learner Driver licenses because they simply do not have an alternative.
You can’t work without driving, you can’t find somewhere to live that you don’t need to drive, you can’t get anyone to a hospital without driving, you can’t get anywhere to stay close to college so you need to drive, etc etc etc
In fact, you can’t get driving without driving, because as instructors themselves acknowledge the mandatory lessons aren’t nearly enough and you probably can’t get enough of them lined up in a short enough time to retain most of it, so they take it for granted you’re driving off the books to get experience.
It’s unsurprising for a few reasons. You have to have your own car or access to someone else’s car plus access to another person willing to give up their time to go out with you, which for some people isn’t possible. I passed in 2021 and was a terror to my parents begging them to accompany me so I could practice, grateful they did but it was annoying I am sure. The hours driving with family got my confidence up much more than instructors did, most of them seemed disengaged, half my lessons were just signed off on regardless of what was actually covered.
Alternatively you can shell out 50-80 quid per lesson for an hour’s driving with an instructor that will likely involve a few weeks’ wait. Let’s say you’ve been driving on L plates for a year or so, are confident, and want to get on with your life like driving yourself to work, etc. It’s frustrating to be left on hold waiting 6 to 12 months for a driving exam where your level of ability isn’t going to increase just because you passed it.
It is a rock and a hard place, not sure what the actual solution is. People obviously ignore the law and drive solo on L plates, maybe the government could make it mandatory to pass your 12 lessons plus a limited amount of driving hours accompanied before allowing people on L plates to drive solo? There are people on the road with full licenses who are more dangerous anyway so who knows, maybe the Gardai could stop being useless in general.
It’s ok. They are halving the speed limits to fix it.
I remember my first driving lesson. My instructor was convinced I had driven before because I was in my (end of) thirties, although I told her I hadn’t (grew up in a mid town in Germany with functioning public transport and no 2k money for getting a license, then moved to Berlin where you’re slower with a car than with public transport …and also no 2k for a license 🤷♀️).
Either that was her thought process or she was suicidal 🤨 she directed me to a national road with 100km/h, then was busy with her mobile while I had one of the worst panic attacks in my life because LADY I HAVEN’T DRIVEN A CAR BEFORE AND WHAT THE FUCK???
Changed instructors right after that, and was basically trained for passing the driving test. Reverse around the corner, but not explaining how to apply that for parking (I still cannot park backwards, because I just don’t know how, and it’s been years). Parallel parking? Never heard of her. I learned manual, but that I should shift down when overtaking to get more rev for the buck? Never been told. I actually taught my instructor the Dutch reach, he was super confused when I did that. But hey, as a lady, make sure to wear dangling ear rings so the tester sees you’re moving your head during the test 😐
All the while I didn’t have anybody to practice driving with, but bought a car for back then 750€ to basically just drive on the parking lot (yeah didn’t help much).
I haven’t learned how to merge because we don’t have merge roads nearby. Of course no motorway because learner. Myriads of country roads where I could have learned ‘oh a car comes towards me, I need to reverse STRAIGHT and then a bit’ but I learned either on town roads or two lane roads. I had a lesson cancelled because of heavy rain??? Isn’t that perfect to learn how to drive in such conditions?
I passed my test (second time, first time I was too left for my left turn. No idea what that meant because I didn’t hit a curb or anything but yeah), and before I had my test I was told by my instructor where I should stop when driving out of the rear center because ‘thats where most people fail instantly’. IT’S A MARKED STOP. If you need to tell people to stop at a marked stop, otherwise they fail, they are not in fact ready for their test.
Long rant short: we need better instructors whose goal is not ‘pass the test’s tests’ but to make somebody a safe driver. We need better testers who are not just either testing the 4 things and nod, or fail without giving explanation or being checked themselves.
I’m can’t see what valid point this campaign against learner drivers has.
At the end of the day being on a permit is subject to a number of stringent regulations. Applying for multiple permits isn’t some loophole, it’s still illegal to drive unaccompanied. The Gardaí have had the power to enforce these for a decade.
Making it even harder for learner drivers because of the minority of people that break the law is action for the sake of action.
Classifying everyone who has never attained a valid full driver’s license as a learner driver is like attributing the 9/11 hijackings to student pilots. The hijackers didn’t hold full pilot licenses, many of those labeled as ‘learner drivers’ may have no legitimate association with learning to drive. This misclassification skews road safety data and unfairly blames learner drivers for incidents they may not be involved in.
It’s the weather , I’d love to see wet v dry weather stat, we have no way of teaching them how to drive in the wet , loads of other countries have wet weather courses to teach them that , even on gravel or loose chippings
It’s an awful statistic yet unsurprising. This is a symptom of too many unqualified drivers on the road.
What’s going to happen is insurance is going to go through the roof for learners, or just become more unaffordable.
Saw a twat the other day driving pretty fast and texting, the car was slightly swerving. It’s infuriating. I’m sure there must be talk to text apps people can use, maybe the government needs to make it mandatory.
No idea why they just didn’t say what it was instead of meandering.
93% of learners drivers who died were unaccompanied.
It took 14 months from when I applied for my license test until I got the first exam. The entire time, my driving instructor and many other people around me said I should just drive on the learner permit. Car dealerships will let you buy a car on a learner permit, and insurance companies will sell coverage. Everyone winks and says, “of course you’ll be accompanied”, and the insurance doesn’t cover you if you aren’t, of course. I opted to walk a lot and take some slow buses.
People have to drive to work, and Ireland’s license exams are failing those people. Public transit coverage and reliability is terrible. This is not a surprising outcome.
I’ve been waiting for about 9 months for my driving test. It took my partner about 15 months before her test was finally scheduled. You think people who immigrate here are just going to not live their lives when these types of waits exist? Fix the broken license process and instead you will have people with full licenses having fatal crashes.
Want to fix the fatal crashes? Lower the speed limit for smaller roads and start having field sobriety tests with video recordings that can be brought to court instead of these expensive and ineffective roadside chemical tests.
This is a consequence of no road policing anywhere, people doing what the hell they want