Es sind 18 Monate vergangen und die F-16 sind noch nicht eingetroffen, sagt Zelensky

https://kyivindependent.com/its-been-18-months-and-f-16s-have-not-arrived-zelensky-says/

44 comments

  3. I kept hearing June. It’s mid July

    Insane when you put it in blatant terms like he did.

    It’s like GRRM in the South Park episode. The dragons are on their way!

  4. Willing to bet it’s Amazon or Fedex… seems like the correct address doesn’t mean much to them.

    Edit: lol like the downvotes. Guessing these people have never dealt with them as a business. Packages being delivered to wrong addresses in this business complex is a common thing.

  5. Glad to know that in an emergency we can get together the stuff we need when we… hold on a sec.

    Anyways… what was I saying? Oh right, I’ll get this comment finished by spring.

    Update… totally finishing this comment in summer. Fall at the latest!

  6. Honestly, it’s been a rather good thing. Russia’s been bombing airstrips instead of (more) civilian targets.

  8. The title implies they were supposed to be provided 18 months ago, when the reality is that they’ve been waiting for the crews to be trained so that they aren’t sitting in Ukraine waiting to be blown up by the Russians without pilots

    Very strange comment for Zelensky, I wonder if it was a translation error. He knows this as well

  9. It takes 18 months to train an F-16 pilot. How many trained and ready pilots does Zelensky have just sitting around waiting for planes?

  10. How about you get zero and deal with it on your own?

  11. Damn, sorry we couldn’t get highly capable war machines and pilots trained to the T to you in 18 months, Mr. Z! Would you like more of our missles and ammo as a sorry?

  12. Context from article:

    > Despite promises by U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken on July 10 that the first Dutch and Danish F-16s are already on their way, no delivery has been confirmed so far.
    >
    > “It’s been 18 months, and the planes have not reached us,” Zelensky said in the interview while stressing that he is thankful for the allied support.

  14. Any day now. I’m sure that has been said since last year

  15. To be fair I guarantee you Ruzzia is doing everything in its power to locate and destroy them the moment they arrive in country. So the delivery needs to be well planned

  17. The scuttlebutt is that it’s proving way more difficult to transition Ukrainian pilots to Western airframes.

    For those who aren’t aware, Russian planes, up until recently, relied heavily on what’s called GCI, or Ground Controlled Intercept. The planes would scramble and be *directed* to the target(s) by other sensors. This was established Russo-Soviet protocol up until they started putting better radars in their non-interceptor airframes. Neither the Russians nor the Ukrainians routinely trained as much as Western air forces as well because flight hours are expensive and wear and tear on airframes is unavoidable.

    Last but not least, the F-16 was never designed to fly in rough/”austere” conditions. One thing Russian planes *do* have, historically, is very strong landing gear, while the landing gear on the F-16 was designed for prepared airfields, a luxury the Russians aren’t going to let the Ukrainians enjoy, and you can’t just put new landing gear on F-16s as it’ll completely change the flight mechanics and stability of the airplane.

    What makes way more sense in the long run is to continue to figure out ways to incorporate Western sensors and weapons onto Ukraine’s existing aircraft.

  18. I didn’t realize Fedex sucked in Ukraine as well.

  21. Could it be that they’re already there? Operational security and all the jazz surrounding it

  22. It’s time for the democracies of the world to get serious about saving democracy. Democracies worldwide are under attack by Russia, China, Iran and their proxies. Some are under attack by their militaries. Some are under attack by hackers and disinformation machines. Some are getting their governments overthrown. One way or another, tyrannical regimes continue to attack democracies worldwide. If these attacks aren’t stopped and if democracies show weakness, the attacks will get bigger and worse. Every democracy in the world deserves the help of the US, EU and other powerful democracies.

  23. Zelensky is playing to the cameras. It takes years- plural- to generate combat-ready crews. Note that doesn’t include just the pilots flying them, but the ground support and maintenance people. Ukraine doesn’t just need trained F-16 crew chiefs- they need trained crew chiefs who can change a jet part *under enemy fire* accurately.

    Thats like changing your cars battery while someone’s launching rockets and mortars at your garage. It ain’t a place for beginners.

  24. “What’s that?, war in the Middle East where my precious oil is? not on my watch!”

    *Assembles a task-force of 100,000 troops and all the hardware it could ever need in 2 weeks ready to deploy anywhere in the world.

    “Huh?

    War in Ukraine, the biggest country in Europe and the largest exporter of wheat, against an enemy that you’ve boasted about being able to defeat easily for decades?

    The best we can do is send you guys enough outdated hardware to keep your heads above the water but barely, we’ll do more we promise…”

    This whole situation sucks but it’s made worse by having leaders that seem like they are devoid of logic and reasoning.

  25. Imagine you are sick, fighting a serious disease. But the people who are helping you, your doctors, are strange. Instead of helping you fully recover, they give you just enough meds to stay alive. Some meds that were once said to be impossible for you to get have magically appeared. Cool! Now you’ll get better! No. Once again, it’s just enough to keep you alive. And what about the reasons you couldn’t get them before? Those red lines? They have magically disappeared. Are you grateful? Yes, you are, because you’re still alive thanks to those people. But it’s been 2.5 years since the beginning, and some questions are starting to pop up.

    In the country I’m from, there’s a saying: ‘A spoon is dear when lunch is near.’

    P.S
    I’m not from Ukraine.

  26. 18 months is just a passage of time which is unemotional. What would be more effective emotionally if the “number of Ukranians that could have been saved” was written.

  27. I think all the planes, choppers, tanks, and war machines that we give to other nations should be equipped with remote kill switches so we can deactivate them so they can’t be used if they fall into the wrong hands.

  28. I thought the training of Ukrainian pilots can take 18 months or so.

  30. I dunno, I would have taken Australia’s offer for 48 f18s. For immediate delivery via c17.

    Training could have occurred in us, Spain, au, Canada etc.

    Twin engine, rugged, short field performance, low maintainence. Fly much more like Russian jets.

  32. This war has shown us issues with our own supplies and coordination. I sure hope Europe is learning from it.

    Their survival is likely on the line

  34. Is it the planes or pilot/ground training? I suspect it’s the latter regardless it’s a joke it’s took so long

  36. I remember when they were due to arrive “before the end of the year” in 2023.

  38. I predict they’ll start showing up right before us elections. Ukraine is a huge difference between the parties, and if they can get a boost and show success, it will translate to votes I think, but the boost needs to be close enough to the election so its fresh in voters’ minds.

  40. The notice that they’ve arrived is gonna be an airstrike in all likelihood

  41. The holdup isn’t because anyone is denying Ukraine the F-16’s but more about training.

    You can probably get a pilot familiar enough to fly a F-16 in a few hours, but to really master the aircraft, and do so under pressure will likely take months to accomplish.

    This is especially important if they fully intend on engaging the Russian Air Force in their Sukhoi’s and MiG’s in the air. You can’t do that with a brand-new guy who has seen everything once; it’s a great way for precious pilots flying valuable assets to get shot down quick.

    You can have all the capabilities of the jet, but if the pilot doesn’t know how to use it correctly, then that’s useless. So for a pilot coming from a MiG-29, having to learn a brand-new and completely different pilot interface where everything looks different, use weapons that they’ve only ever read about, to give them three-months training then toss them into combat — that’s a very big ask for any pilot.

    For a Western pilot,with around 500 hours experience in a Western fighter, but that has never previously flown the F-16 — someone transitioning from the Hornet for example — without any breaks, working weekends, etc, they need 69 uninterrupted days to learn everything to safely employ the F-16 in air-to-air and air-to-ground roles. And that time is barely enough time to get a pilot capable of flying as basic wingman to a more experienced lead pilot, which leads to the other issue.

    For a pilot more familiar with Soviet/Russian aircraft, it’s likely going to take longer, much longer. The way Western fighters display information in the cockpit is radically different than Soviet/Russian style, and there’s a lot more emphasis on the pilot being the decision maker, rather than the ground controller telling the pilot what to do.

    The Ukrainians are familiar with the old Soviet style ground controlled interception mission; basically, the pilot is tasked by a ground controller to fly to certain positions, turn at a specific point and altitude, and press certain buttons to talked on to find and engage their targets. The entire engagement is controlled from wheels up to weapons release by a ground controller.

    The F-16 demands a totally different set of tactics; there’s a lot more autonomy that’s demanded from the pilots to make their own decisions, with the information shown on their display and from their mission planning. It’s going to be very, very difficult for pilots who are familiar with one system to be transitioned to a totally different concept of operations, and do it successfully, even when under pressure. You’ll basically have to deprogram your experienced pilot, otherwise, when they are under pressure, they are going to revert back to their previous training, rather than the new training that they need to survive.

  42. If it goes on, zelensky will start demanding nukes to defend democracy. Cant wait for nuclear holocaust to begin.

  44. It comes down to what is probably the most impactful element that leads to successful outcomes in war: logistics.

    It’s not just about a plane and a pilot. It is the entire logistics train of maintenance, repair, armaments, safe storage, secure bases of operations, etc..

    Who is responsible for all of these things, and have they been prepared?

Leave a Reply