How accurate are these numbers?

38 comments
  1. Pretty accurate. Except the one about vacation that’s 4 weeks by law, but most have 5 weeks though their union. If you are over 60 or something you have an extra week of vacation on top of that.

    But it irks me that Americans think we have socialism here. This is a highly capitalist society. It’s just that a welfare state, and capitalism isn’t mutually exclusive as Americans seems to believe. Or it might be because they are taught that universal healthcare equals communism lmao.

    Edit: Oh and we don’t actually have a minimum wage here except for in construction, and the hotel and restaurant business. Salaries are set mostly by collective bargaining between the unions, and the employers associations.

  2. Not accurate at all. The US has FAR lower homeownership (or it will anyway). Also that happiness for the US is dropping. Also the union one for the US is probably lower. Also th…

  3. 83% home ownership can’t be accurate. Even if everyone above 18 owned a house, it would still require less than 17% of Norways’ population to be younger than 18. If the life expectancy is 82, then there’s either something fishy with the numbers or we have a lot of homeowners in their teens.

  4. Dude Norway is like 5 mil United States is like 300 mil you can’t compare statics cuz on large scale you don’t know how Norway will do

  5. It all depends on how you pick your facts, but…

    The UN estimates about 10% of the population in Norway is poor, ie; earns less than 60% of median income.

    According to FHI, the life expectancy in 202 was 84.9 years for females and 81.5 years for males.

    FHI also states that infant mortality was just over 2/1000 in 2016 in Norway as a whole.

    According to the Norwegian Police’s yearly review of murders, there were 29 murders in Norway in 2021 (28 in 2020). They intentionally don’t break it don in murders per capita, since the numbers are so low. But doing the math gives ~0.54/100000 in 2021 and ~0.52/100000 in 2020.

    SSB states there was 3533 prisoners in Norway on 1st Jan 2020 (the latest number they have on their site) – which works out to 66/100000

    According to the World Bank, the Norwegian GNP per capita was 67 294.48 USD in 2020… I am not sure if that number is adjusted for purchasing power or not though.

    I’m not sure what they mean by “protected by unions” – the agreements the unions negotiate tends to be made valid for non-union members too. About one out of two employees in Norway is a member of a union though.

    There are several reports and indexes that tries to chart happiness – so how high up we are depends on which one you’re looking at. We’re #2 according to the World Happiness Report though, virtually tied with Finland (#1) and Denmark (#3). The important thing is that we beat the Swedes (#9) 🙂

    All legal residents are part of the national insurance scheme, which do include healthcare (but not dental, yet).

    Public education is “free”, in that it is paid for through taxes and not student fees.

    All legal residents who have been a member of the national insurance scheme for five years or more who are retired are entitled to at least a minimum pension – but it’s arguable if 167125 NOK/year is “financial security” or not (majority of retires are entitled to a higher pension though).

    According to SSB, 82% of Norwegian households were owned in April 2021 – and the number is slowly creeping down; it was 1% higher in 2015.

    While there is no minimum wage in Norway as such (some caveats apply), you’ll be hard pressed to find a full time job in Norway that don’t pay enough to survive on at least.

    We get 25 days vacation and 10 “red days” a year – and if a red days falls on a day you’re not working, you ‘loose’ it. So arguable seven weeks, although due to how the law counts “working days”.. those twenty five days of vacation is four weeks and a day. Most employers give you five weeks though.

    Oh, and the maternal/paternal leave is 12 months total; 15 weeks for mom (six of which has to be taken just before and after birth), 15 weeks for dad, and the rest can be divided as parents see fit. I’m not sure how long ago it was that paternal leave was just 35 weeks, but it’s been years.

    The average tax on an average income in Norway is… well… hard to find. In 2010 it was 28.7% for the employee – but 36,8% if you count the employer tax on top (arbeidsgiveravgift – which helps fun the national insurance scheme).

    ​

    So the numbers range from correct, via outdated, through hard to measure, to wrong.

  6. Several thiks are wrong that i can see without even checking

    1. Free universal Health care … Nope its not free .. you have to pay 20+$ for each visit until e certaint amount ( around 2-300$ in a year ) on top of you have to pay for material usage.. To actually its not free.

    2. 8 week paid vecation per year is also wrong … Its actually only 4 weeks + 1 week depending on work place

    3. 83% home ownership seems also pretty wrong lots of people have to rent because prices are really expensive to buy

    4. 70% worker protected by unions seems also way to high ..

    ​

    Actually there is allot wrong if not everything

    Murder rate is pretty low but it seems to grow as is the respect for the police falling.

    Financial security for seniors is also wrong.. You have a state pension but its rediculess low and you will be poor if you dont safe up money your self

  7. Fails already in title:
    Norway is social-democratic, not democratic socialism.
    (Socialism is epic failure as economic system, Norway is capitalistic).

    Poverty rates are relative to median income, meaning even Monaco, North Korea or Somalia will see similar numbers. Pretty useless for comparing stuff.

    Murder and crime rates are probably accurate. However in Norway people are locked in for minor traffic and drug violations. On the other hand, in the US they are locked up for longer at a time.

    Boomers have good financial security by law. This is going away, and current working generations will be looking at pretty meager pensions.

    Personal tax rate might be correct. However, Norway has 25% VAT (sales tax) and a bucket ton of fees on everything.

    Comparing Norway and US this way is not really a fair comparison. Could easily do the same with Norway and Monaco, and I think Monaco probably would win hands down.

  8. I think the GDP per person in Norway has included oil export income. But we are storing much of that for future generations.

  9. Other people have pointed out the things that are plain wrong, but I’d like to add that even though we have a high degree of unionization, Norway is “right to work” in a US context. Unlike many US states, you are not forced to join a union in Norway. The only exception to this is elevator repairmen, because their league doubles as both the competency organization and the union.

  10. While some particulars on this list are not spot on, the general principle holds true. Americans are so brainwashed by corporate propaganda that they think living wages, paid time off for vacations or being sick, maternity leave, free college, virtually free healthcare, etc. are socialism. Or as our conservatives call it, SOICALSMS!!! When we progressives share facts about life in the Nordics, they just get angry and tell us to move there if we hate America so much. It’s infuriating.

  11. Kinda hard to answer precisely since the sources has been cropped out. If there were source provided in the first place that is, something i reckon there must have been since it seems to be an excerpt from a quality of life study.

    But i would guess the information is in the ball park.

  12. There is a cap on medical expenses, so if you exceed that you’ll have free health care. It’s approximately 300 dollars a year. You pay some for doctors appointments (20-30$) and prescribed medication before you hit that cap. More and more medications that used to be within the arrangement (blå resept/ blue prescription) are dropped, so you’ll have to pay for them, and it’s become more difficult to get specialty medication on «blå resept». As for college, there are mostly free ones, but the prevalence of costly college courses has ramped up the last several years. It’s usually courses that are relevant for professionals who want more education. Some can get their employers to foot the bill.

    We have enjoyed eight years of right wing government here in Norway. Could be related.

  13. Not at all accurate. A quick google reveals that there is a hidden tax on payrolls of 22%. So the actual tax is close to 50%. Also, sales tax is 25% in Norway.

    Overall, tax as percentage of GDP is abt 10 percent units lower in the US.

  14. 35 weeks paid parental leave? It’s 49 weeks per child to be shared, or 24.5 per parent then. Or more but then not at 100% compensation.

  15. If you’re looking for absolute facts, just don’t trust infographics spread around the internet. Much of the sentiment is true, though. I would still take issue that America is so capitalistic and Norway is so socialistic, they are much more alike than they are different. They both have strong capitalistic enterprises and financial sectors, just Norway spreads it out better, makes it harder to be super rich and keeps more people from being super poor. America also has a publicly-funded safety net, but reserves it for large banks, corporations and then some for the disabled, mentally ill or elderly Americans. The working lower and middle class taxpayers support quite a lot, including the giant unquestionable black hole that is the American military budget. But really the country doesn’t pay for it with enough taxes and just takes on more and more debt.

    Maybe the most important difference between the US and Norway is government debt. The Norwegian oil fund is the smartest unique thing they have done, and a prime reason why I decided to move to Norway. America has been a burn-it-all-to-the-ground, selfish, narcissistic country since it passed its golden era of the 60s and 70s, and by 2001 it had reached full financial arrogance and stupidity that has been its gradual ruin. It does not look like America will ever recover from the Bush administration.

  16. Although the poverty rate is much higher than it should be in Norway, being poor in Norway and the US is two vastly different things.

  17. Norway does not have democratic socialism, but social democracy.

    There’s a huge difference.

    This is something that’s regularly misattributed to the scandinavian countries.

    Norway is a free market capitalist economy just like Denmark and just like Sweden. Only they’ve put far more checks, stops and breaks on the companies to make sure people aren’t exploited as much, with relatively high taxes that help fund social programs (aka. help the people).

    It’s working out pretty great yes, but let’s not lie about what it is.

    It is not socialism.

  18. “Free universal healthcare” does come with an asterisk, because you have to pay a little for medications and doctor visits. How much you have to pay is varies from year to year. This year, the limit is 2912kr per year. If you have a “white prescription” for medications, it does not go towards this limit. If it’s a “blue prescription”, you do not pay more than 520kr per three months, and never more than 39% at a time of the cost of the medication.

    So for example: You need some Metformin, which is used to treat diabetes. I don’t remember the exact price, but let’s say it’s 1500kr for 100 tablets (3 months). 1500 x 0.39 = 585. That’s above the 520kr limit, so you only pay 520. Let’s say you also need some other medications, so even with this “520kr-limit”, you exceed the 2912kr-limit after only 3/4 of the year. Then, you pay nothing at all for the rest of the year.

    When your total amount is 2912kr or higher for all your medications and doctor visits, it’s free. There are other rules towards birth control pills, H-prescriptions (when a hospital is responsible for the medication) etc…

    However, having to pay no more than 2912kr for absolutely necessary medicines, such as for asthma or diabetes, it’s a very small price to pay. Most people can relatively easily afford those antibiotic pills that is not covered by this.

  19. Average tax rate is misleading, while our income tax is pretty close to most western countries, we have several high taxes Americans don’t have:

    – 25% sales tax
    – 12.5% payroll tax
    – Estate tax
    – Twice the price for cars and gasoline
    – Tariffs on food

    Also our government spending is doped by huge amounts of money from oil and gas.

  20. Nordic countries are more capitalist than the current situation in USA. Just because they have social services doesn’t make them socialist or “democratic socialist”. They have a genuinely free market that US lacks because of the evergrowing government intervention.

  21. **Poverty rate**: [There are several different measures](https://www.ssb.no/en/sosiale-forhold-og-kriminalitet/levekar/statistikk/fattigdomsproblemer-levekarsundersokelsen), ranging from 19% at the highest (families “not able to afford an unexpected expense”) down to 4% (families who are “not able to afford to participate in regular leisure activities”). The ways the US measure these things just tend to confuse comparisons, see for example: https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/2019-economic-well-being-of-us-households-in-2018-dealing-with-unexpected-expenses.htm

    **Life expectancy, infant mortality, murder rate**, simple statistics so not much to say about those.

    On **incarcerations**, it’s also worth mentioning that the *recidivism rate* (the rate of re-offending) is very, very, *very* low compared to the US at about 25% after five years (about half of the best US figures).

    **GDP** (per capita), generally a terrible measurement category and it’s not clear which variation has been used here. However, Norway’s been higher than the US on most of these measures for ages.

    **Union protection of workers** is… technically 100%. The tariff agreements are legally binding for all employers and workers, regardless of union affiliation. The figure provided isn’t for *protection* by unions, but *membership* of unions. This also plays into the living wage and weeks of paid vacation, which are generally higher than the legal minimums because of union power and the legally binding nature of their agreements.

    **Free universal health care**, **higher ed**, yep. Also, very *broad* healthcare coverage, and **heavily subsidised (and price capped) child care** (oh and obviously **constitutionally guaranteed free primary and secondary education**).

    “**Personal tax rate**” is also a nebulous number, but it is indeed not significantly higher than in the US. It *is* however much more progressive (in the US, the rich actually pay *less* tax, proportionally, than do the average person).

    **Home ownership** is also a big thing. Land isn’t particularly scarce, and old family properties have been relatively easily subdivided over time so a lot of people have inherited property. In addition to that, there are [very good support institutions in place and good regulations for mortgaging etc](http://www.nyinorge.no/en/Ny-i-Norge-velg-sprak/New-in-Norway/Residence/Housing/Owning-a-home/). However, it should be noted that this seems to be getting worse with time as property prices are increasing and private debt is mounting, and home ownership in urban areas is *far* lower than in rural areas.

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