In brussels? Do it in all of Belgium. It’s a perfect Belgian compromise between flemish and francophone. Regardless of its official status, it’s gaining territory already. It’s increasingly common not only online (like this sub) but also corporate, universities, … Were the covid scientists not communicating in English with one another?
Adding english as a 4th national language could actually make certain things more efficient.
>Of dreigen we dan het Nederlands in Brussel helemáál te begraven?
DAT is een realiteit. De Franstaligen zullen Frans blijven spreken. De Nederlandstaligen en expats zullen Engels spreken. Nagenoeg niemand zal nog Nederlands spreken.
Kijk maar naar advertenties van o.a. de Rode Duivels: Frans en Engels – zelden of nooit Nederlands. Als er een taal is die als eerste verdwijnt in multilanguage opties, is het altijd Nederlands.
I’d just be glad if people working in stores know any language beside french in brussels. But that’s very often not the case.
It could be doable to implement it incrementally: ie, for certain types of communications or administrative requests only. For more complex matters, you’d still have to use one of the official languages.
I’m affraid that anything more than that would (in the short term) lead to failure or go at the expense of other important matters.
Al daan cinéma paske les “expaTs” ne savent pas s’adapter ? Ik spreik ni geire ingels, je préfère encore le Bosch.
Nog meer excuses om geen Nederlands meer te moeten spreken bij de officiële instanties…
If you make English an official language, it also means that certain professionals will have to be able to provide their full services in proper English, and Brussels is absolutely not ready for that. We have many people who speak English, but few who speak it well.
I’d rather leave things the way they are now. Sure, I’m frustrated about not being able to use Dutch, but the city’s level of English (or Dutch, for that matter) is not going to change based on this decision. The decision should be descriptive rather than prescriptive, and I’m fairly certain that there’s really not that many people in Brussels who speak English as their native language.
No!
No
De kolonisators die enkel aan geld denken en naar Amerika opkijken zullen weer tevreden zijn. Ik heb nog liever dat Brussel eentalig Frans is. We zouden net Engels zoveel mogelijk moeten vermijden, als je nog iets van cultuur wilt overhouden. Begin met alle “cultuur” uit Amerika extra te taksen, misschien dat de kranten dan ook niet meer volstaan met goedkope Amerikaanse artikels.
No certainly not that would just ruin speaking dutch
I’m curious, do more people in Belgium and/or Brussels speak english than either dutch or french individually?
If so, then I don’t see why not, if it helps basic communation between people (i.e. dutch-speaking person and french-speaking using english to talk to each other, if one doesn’t speak the other’s language well).
Yes because mot even enforcing the local language will do miracles for integration.
Brussels is bilingual, hence the official administration should be in French or Dutch.
Than I would speak 3 of the 4 official languages and still not be understood in some places in Brussels and Wallonia.
I always think it’s mainly the elderly that only speak French, younger generation knows English right? Until you order from Delhaize online and the (young, 30 something) driver can’t find my address in Flanders and calls me.
He only spoke French. No Dutch, no German and no English…
Nope. (And I say this as a native English speaker in Brussels.)
I personally happen to think that there’s something to be said for having a bilingual capital region, even symbolically, particularly in a country that’s heavy on the compromises, and light on the national unity.
Brussels can barely handle two official languages, never mind adding a third – and we’re caught in a vicious circle with the first two anyway. Nobody speaks Dutch because nobody speaks Dutch.
Not to mention adding *another* administrative layer. Qualified bilingual people are hard enough to find – let’s find some trilingual unicorns!
Plus the fact that English is an imported language. It’s not native to this country, just like English isn’t spoken natively in Italy. It’s a bit like putting a Band-Aid on a broken bone – it’s not a solution if the goal is to improve the relationship between the two main language Communities.
For international shit, yolo, but meetings of ministers in ivory towers are so far removed from people’s ordinary lives, it means nothing on a concrete level.
And if it *does* happen – what does this mean for the Communities? Would there be an English Community, with an English TV station and English-speaking political parties? How much money would this cost, and who pays?
Nah, fam.
What a terrible idea. I am completely against this. I am in favor of learning English, but against becoming an Anglosaxon country.
New immigrants will just stop learning Dutch or French. They will work in Brussels and probably live in Flanders or Wallonia and will say they don’t need anything but English. Goodbye integration.
French is already the lingua franca in most of Brussels. English can fill the gap whenever needed but that doesn’t have to be set in stone officially.
(I am trilingual Dutch / French / English btw)
I hate this.
But then still. The average under 40 Wallon and the average under 40 Fleming. Now speaks better English then they do French or Dutch.
So I am sorry. But it makes sense.
Not to mention that this entire sub is in English.
Sounds like a way to discriminate Dutch even more.
Neen, non, und nein!
It would open up a Pandora’s Box on language laws. Why Brussels and not for example Tervuren, why make accommodations for expats that not even Belgians get outside of their community?
If it was up to me, any interaction with the government should be able to be done in Dutch, French or German in the whole country, but I’ll be six feet under before Belgian politicians let go of their language tribalism. Make sure people who work in policing or government speak enough English to help tourists and expats along, but French, Dutch and German are the official languages of the country. Pick one. If you want to live here make an effort.
Nope, but french neither.
As an English person even I think this is a stupid idea.
Here’s my two cents: It should a language that is permitted in bureaucratic institutions. I once saw two non-natives arguing about something at the administrative center (in Flanders, so maybe a bit off topic for the Brussels discussion). They spoke very understandable English, but the people at the counter said to each other, in Dutch, that they are only allowed to help in French or Dutch, so they weren’t even gonna make an effort. I thought to myself, well, first, German should be on that list as well. But that’s minor. Second, and more importantly, how were you planning to help international people with being that narrow minded? English is used EVERYWHERE. It’s becoming the standard for international communication fast. So just adapt.
Nope. Unless one day Europe declares an official second language and it’s English, but it could be Danish for all I care. I mean what’s next Arabic?
No. The English language is a cultural plague, and I can all but guarantee that, in a couple of generations, we will sorely regret allowing a single language to gain the amount of power that it has.
28 comments
on r/belgium it sure is
Might be a good idea in the long term honestly
Translation, please? ᐟˢ
In brussels? Do it in all of Belgium. It’s a perfect Belgian compromise between flemish and francophone. Regardless of its official status, it’s gaining territory already. It’s increasingly common not only online (like this sub) but also corporate, universities, … Were the covid scientists not communicating in English with one another?
Adding english as a 4th national language could actually make certain things more efficient.
>Of dreigen we dan het Nederlands in Brussel helemáál te begraven?
DAT is een realiteit. De Franstaligen zullen Frans blijven spreken. De Nederlandstaligen en expats zullen Engels spreken. Nagenoeg niemand zal nog Nederlands spreken.
Kijk maar naar advertenties van o.a. de Rode Duivels: Frans en Engels – zelden of nooit Nederlands. Als er een taal is die als eerste verdwijnt in multilanguage opties, is het altijd Nederlands.
I’d just be glad if people working in stores know any language beside french in brussels. But that’s very often not the case.
It could be doable to implement it incrementally: ie, for certain types of communications or administrative requests only. For more complex matters, you’d still have to use one of the official languages.
I’m affraid that anything more than that would (in the short term) lead to failure or go at the expense of other important matters.
Al daan cinéma paske les “expaTs” ne savent pas s’adapter ? Ik spreik ni geire ingels, je préfère encore le Bosch.
Nog meer excuses om geen Nederlands meer te moeten spreken bij de officiële instanties…
If you make English an official language, it also means that certain professionals will have to be able to provide their full services in proper English, and Brussels is absolutely not ready for that. We have many people who speak English, but few who speak it well.
I’d rather leave things the way they are now. Sure, I’m frustrated about not being able to use Dutch, but the city’s level of English (or Dutch, for that matter) is not going to change based on this decision. The decision should be descriptive rather than prescriptive, and I’m fairly certain that there’s really not that many people in Brussels who speak English as their native language.
No!
No
De kolonisators die enkel aan geld denken en naar Amerika opkijken zullen weer tevreden zijn. Ik heb nog liever dat Brussel eentalig Frans is. We zouden net Engels zoveel mogelijk moeten vermijden, als je nog iets van cultuur wilt overhouden. Begin met alle “cultuur” uit Amerika extra te taksen, misschien dat de kranten dan ook niet meer volstaan met goedkope Amerikaanse artikels.
No certainly not that would just ruin speaking dutch
I’m curious, do more people in Belgium and/or Brussels speak english than either dutch or french individually?
If so, then I don’t see why not, if it helps basic communation between people (i.e. dutch-speaking person and french-speaking using english to talk to each other, if one doesn’t speak the other’s language well).
Yes because mot even enforcing the local language will do miracles for integration.
Brussels is bilingual, hence the official administration should be in French or Dutch.
Than I would speak 3 of the 4 official languages and still not be understood in some places in Brussels and Wallonia.
I always think it’s mainly the elderly that only speak French, younger generation knows English right? Until you order from Delhaize online and the (young, 30 something) driver can’t find my address in Flanders and calls me.
He only spoke French. No Dutch, no German and no English…
Nope. (And I say this as a native English speaker in Brussels.)
I personally happen to think that there’s something to be said for having a bilingual capital region, even symbolically, particularly in a country that’s heavy on the compromises, and light on the national unity.
Brussels can barely handle two official languages, never mind adding a third – and we’re caught in a vicious circle with the first two anyway. Nobody speaks Dutch because nobody speaks Dutch.
Not to mention adding *another* administrative layer. Qualified bilingual people are hard enough to find – let’s find some trilingual unicorns!
Plus the fact that English is an imported language. It’s not native to this country, just like English isn’t spoken natively in Italy. It’s a bit like putting a Band-Aid on a broken bone – it’s not a solution if the goal is to improve the relationship between the two main language Communities.
For international shit, yolo, but meetings of ministers in ivory towers are so far removed from people’s ordinary lives, it means nothing on a concrete level.
And if it *does* happen – what does this mean for the Communities? Would there be an English Community, with an English TV station and English-speaking political parties? How much money would this cost, and who pays?
Nah, fam.
What a terrible idea. I am completely against this. I am in favor of learning English, but against becoming an Anglosaxon country.
New immigrants will just stop learning Dutch or French. They will work in Brussels and probably live in Flanders or Wallonia and will say they don’t need anything but English. Goodbye integration.
French is already the lingua franca in most of Brussels. English can fill the gap whenever needed but that doesn’t have to be set in stone officially.
(I am trilingual Dutch / French / English btw)
I hate this.
But then still. The average under 40 Wallon and the average under 40 Fleming. Now speaks better English then they do French or Dutch.
So I am sorry. But it makes sense.
Not to mention that this entire sub is in English.
Sounds like a way to discriminate Dutch even more.
Neen, non, und nein!
It would open up a Pandora’s Box on language laws. Why Brussels and not for example Tervuren, why make accommodations for expats that not even Belgians get outside of their community?
If it was up to me, any interaction with the government should be able to be done in Dutch, French or German in the whole country, but I’ll be six feet under before Belgian politicians let go of their language tribalism. Make sure people who work in policing or government speak enough English to help tourists and expats along, but French, Dutch and German are the official languages of the country. Pick one. If you want to live here make an effort.
Nope, but french neither.
As an English person even I think this is a stupid idea.
Here’s my two cents: It should a language that is permitted in bureaucratic institutions. I once saw two non-natives arguing about something at the administrative center (in Flanders, so maybe a bit off topic for the Brussels discussion). They spoke very understandable English, but the people at the counter said to each other, in Dutch, that they are only allowed to help in French or Dutch, so they weren’t even gonna make an effort. I thought to myself, well, first, German should be on that list as well. But that’s minor. Second, and more importantly, how were you planning to help international people with being that narrow minded? English is used EVERYWHERE. It’s becoming the standard for international communication fast. So just adapt.
Nope. Unless one day Europe declares an official second language and it’s English, but it could be Danish for all I care. I mean what’s next Arabic?
No. The English language is a cultural plague, and I can all but guarantee that, in a couple of generations, we will sorely regret allowing a single language to gain the amount of power that it has.