What a heartwarming sight! I wonder if there’s a government in the world that represents the will of its people?
Those religious zealots loved to blame gay people on natural disaster, so where are their tongues now, while sicily has a huge flood after senate defeating LGBT hate crimes bill? Ah, yes they are also climate chage denials.
this is what i like, people fighting for their rights even if the government pushes them down, I’m really glad they haven’t give up yet, as a member of LGBTQ this really puts a smile on my face
Pretty appropriately (or not based on point of view), that’s the
Similar protests happened in Rome and I suppose in the rest of Italy
Why does LGBT need special laws? Isn’t violence already a criminal act?
Why is misogyny a criminal act? Would Dave Chapelle be convicted to prison for being a TERF?
Good. Assault is already illegal. We don’t need special laws for people based on special criteria for extra special punishments. One law for everyone is how a society stays united. Assaulting a straight person is every bit as bad as assaulting a gay person because we are all equal and all deserve equal protection under the law.
The entire concept of hate crimes is ridiculous and should be abolished everywhere.
A lot of people here have a fundamental misunderstanding of how this legislation would have functioned and hate crime laws in general. This bill wouldn’t have only covered gay and transgender people, but all genders and sexualities. It’s also just adding these identities to a pre-existing hate crime law, which no one seems to have a problem with.
Let’s go r/Europe!!! I really love how people call Europe super liberal and then you look at this post and it’s comment section and it’s super conservative.
How about you punish violence in general and then punish violence perpetrated because of the victim’s national/racial/sexual/religious/etc identity even harder? Without creating more protected groups?
It’s absolutely amazing to me that people in 2021 can be so obtuse to issues like this. Reading comments like “i don’t understand why they need special laws” and then trying to justify those comments with idiotic replies is just fucking sad.
There’s so little empathy left… it’s driving me mad.
ITT: People inadvertently proving why we need hate crime laws.
The saddest thing about this is that there are no actual ideological reasons behind this. This bill was used as a bargaining chip by the different parties in the government coalition in order to flex their muscles and show strength to each other by changing one or another amendment…. in the end it just failed and now LGBT people will have to pay the consequences.
Where can I read Italys current hate crime laws & what this bill proposed?
chad milan
it’s not an hate crime bull defeat , it was just another stupid marketing bill .
police should take seriously any assault regardless of the victim and perpetuators.
right now in italy you need to use guns or go against some powerful person to trigger a serious response from the police.
we don’t need special laws ,we need to enforce our existent laws .
there should be no legal difference between a woman ,man ,straight , lgbtq, immigrant or native .
stop pushing for stupid laws that are based on what an individual declare to be.
if someone assoult another one the police should have the same reaction in every case, not give special care to a particoular group of people .
Stop making useless laws, start making police reform to punish negligence and lazyness .
source : i was a men wich was stalked, assaulted and doxxed heavily by my EX GF , after 2 tears the process still has to even begin, with no consequence for the perpetrator whatsoever even with a litteral mountain of video, audio and testimoniances as proof .
People in this thread completely miss point of bill and hate crime laws with arguments like “assault is already illegal” or “law should be equal for everyone”.
The laws are created to prevent crime in the first place with threat of punitive measures and different rehabilitation measures for different crimes. Considering that LGBT people are assaulted more often and are often targeted by dedicated hate groups, it makes sense to add special cases for hate crime to decrease likelihood of assault and treat hate groups.
Another point is vulnerability and causes of crime. We are used to an idea that you should be punished more for attacking vulnerable people. Most people will agree that punch in the face in a bar by equal mates is less severe than woman being punched in the face by a guy at home. Codifying this difference hopefully will decrease likelihood of such crimes being committed.
Hate crime bills also don’t violate legal egalitarianism, it treats everyone equally before law, but applies different punishments for different causes. Very exaggerating, it’s the difference between murder and criminal negligence that lead to death.
Lot’s of redditors not wanting to understand the legal system coming out of the woodwork, now that they can bash some gay people online.
Lmao leftists get rekt
Gonna cry?
The saddest part is that said bill included LGBTQ+ but it wasn’t only for that group, it included a wide variety of people, especially ones in need, with disabilities, minorities and so on.
But politics decided to cut out what fit their own ignorant agenda, and make a case about it.
Yesterday society and humanity lost, in Italy.
Italian here.
This is mostly political marketing and manipulation and less about the LGBT crimes and hate speech.
We have already [a law against discriminations that can be modified to include LGBT](https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legge_Mancino), but the left wing parties proposed to go ahead with a new specific law against LGBT crimes and hate speech.
Anyway the law was too generic and left too much power to the judges to decide what is discrimination and it can create problem in term of freedom of speech.
Moreover, the stop of this law is caused by several tactical stops between parties and lack of strategic view from PD (the center left party that promoted this law). They insisted to go on secret voting instead that having an agreement with other center parties (like the little one by former PM Renzi).
Italian politics it’s complicate
While I understand the will behind these kind of laws, I simply cannot agree with their premise because it’s not generalized enough and in the end still doesn’t work imho.
What about fat people? Ugly people? Nerds? Rich?…. There is an enormus number of ways people could be grouped togheter and hated upon…yet people with those motives would still be left out of the DDL Zan.
This is really not impartial in my opinion
Personally, I think that this would be much better fitted under laws that we already have in Italy that punish harsher for crimes deemed done “by futile motives”… choising to harm someone by group identity is simply that, a futile motivation.
27 comments
Hello, Italy. First time? -Poland
What a heartwarming sight! I wonder if there’s a government in the world that represents the will of its people?
Those religious zealots loved to blame gay people on natural disaster, so where are their tongues now, while sicily has a huge flood after senate defeating LGBT hate crimes bill? Ah, yes they are also climate chage denials.
this is what i like, people fighting for their rights even if the government pushes them down, I’m really glad they haven’t give up yet, as a member of LGBTQ this really puts a smile on my face
Pretty appropriately (or not based on point of view), that’s the
[Arco Della Pace](https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arco_della_Pace), Arc of Peace 🙂
In case anyone else got confused about what the title is trying to say:
[Italy’s senate has killed off a bill that would have made violence against LGBT people and disabled people, as well as misogyny, a hate crime.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/27/italy-senate-votes-down-anti-homophobic-violence-bill)
Similar protests happened in Rome and I suppose in the rest of Italy
Why does LGBT need special laws? Isn’t violence already a criminal act?
Why is misogyny a criminal act? Would Dave Chapelle be convicted to prison for being a TERF?
Good. Assault is already illegal. We don’t need special laws for people based on special criteria for extra special punishments. One law for everyone is how a society stays united. Assaulting a straight person is every bit as bad as assaulting a gay person because we are all equal and all deserve equal protection under the law.
The entire concept of hate crimes is ridiculous and should be abolished everywhere.
A lot of people here have a fundamental misunderstanding of how this legislation would have functioned and hate crime laws in general. This bill wouldn’t have only covered gay and transgender people, but all genders and sexualities. It’s also just adding these identities to a pre-existing hate crime law, which no one seems to have a problem with.
Let’s go r/Europe!!! I really love how people call Europe super liberal and then you look at this post and it’s comment section and it’s super conservative.
How about you punish violence in general and then punish violence perpetrated because of the victim’s national/racial/sexual/religious/etc identity even harder? Without creating more protected groups?
It’s absolutely amazing to me that people in 2021 can be so obtuse to issues like this. Reading comments like “i don’t understand why they need special laws” and then trying to justify those comments with idiotic replies is just fucking sad.
There’s so little empathy left… it’s driving me mad.
ITT: People inadvertently proving why we need hate crime laws.
The saddest thing about this is that there are no actual ideological reasons behind this. This bill was used as a bargaining chip by the different parties in the government coalition in order to flex their muscles and show strength to each other by changing one or another amendment…. in the end it just failed and now LGBT people will have to pay the consequences.
Where can I read Italys current hate crime laws & what this bill proposed?
chad milan
it’s not an hate crime bull defeat , it was just another stupid marketing bill .
police should take seriously any assault regardless of the victim and perpetuators.
right now in italy you need to use guns or go against some powerful person to trigger a serious response from the police.
we don’t need special laws ,we need to enforce our existent laws .
there should be no legal difference between a woman ,man ,straight , lgbtq, immigrant or native .
stop pushing for stupid laws that are based on what an individual declare to be.
if someone assoult another one the police should have the same reaction in every case, not give special care to a particoular group of people .
Stop making useless laws, start making police reform to punish negligence and lazyness .
source : i was a men wich was stalked, assaulted and doxxed heavily by my EX GF , after 2 tears the process still has to even begin, with no consequence for the perpetrator whatsoever even with a litteral mountain of video, audio and testimoniances as proof .
People in this thread completely miss point of bill and hate crime laws with arguments like “assault is already illegal” or “law should be equal for everyone”.
The laws are created to prevent crime in the first place with threat of punitive measures and different rehabilitation measures for different crimes. Considering that LGBT people are assaulted more often and are often targeted by dedicated hate groups, it makes sense to add special cases for hate crime to decrease likelihood of assault and treat hate groups.
Another point is vulnerability and causes of crime. We are used to an idea that you should be punished more for attacking vulnerable people. Most people will agree that punch in the face in a bar by equal mates is less severe than woman being punched in the face by a guy at home. Codifying this difference hopefully will decrease likelihood of such crimes being committed.
Hate crime bills also don’t violate legal egalitarianism, it treats everyone equally before law, but applies different punishments for different causes. Very exaggerating, it’s the difference between murder and criminal negligence that lead to death.
Lot’s of redditors not wanting to understand the legal system coming out of the woodwork, now that they can bash some gay people online.
Lmao leftists get rekt
Gonna cry?
The saddest part is that said bill included LGBTQ+ but it wasn’t only for that group, it included a wide variety of people, especially ones in need, with disabilities, minorities and so on.
But politics decided to cut out what fit their own ignorant agenda, and make a case about it.
Yesterday society and humanity lost, in Italy.
Italian here.
This is mostly political marketing and manipulation and less about the LGBT crimes and hate speech.
We have already [a law against discriminations that can be modified to include LGBT](https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legge_Mancino), but the left wing parties proposed to go ahead with a new specific law against LGBT crimes and hate speech.
Anyway the law was too generic and left too much power to the judges to decide what is discrimination and it can create problem in term of freedom of speech.
Moreover, the stop of this law is caused by several tactical stops between parties and lack of strategic view from PD (the center left party that promoted this law). They insisted to go on secret voting instead that having an agreement with other center parties (like the little one by former PM Renzi).
Italian politics it’s complicate
While I understand the will behind these kind of laws, I simply cannot agree with their premise because it’s not generalized enough and in the end still doesn’t work imho.
What about fat people? Ugly people? Nerds? Rich?…. There is an enormus number of ways people could be grouped togheter and hated upon…yet people with those motives would still be left out of the DDL Zan.
This is really not impartial in my opinion
Personally, I think that this would be much better fitted under laws that we already have in Italy that punish harsher for crimes deemed done “by futile motives”… choising to harm someone by group identity is simply that, a futile motivation.
Based Milan for killing the bill
Don’t protest. Vote for sensible parties.