Hello, I've been living in Germany for 5 months now. Today I parked in a closed (because its Sunday) grocery stores parking lot. The grocery store had about 50 spaces, i was like one of 5 cars in the mostly empty lot. I came back 2.5 hours later to a "ticket" on my windshield. This doesn't look like it was made by a cop or city official, it kinda looks like someone got their hands on receipt printer and yellow paper in it. Is this legit? Is this how German parking tickets look? It says to just send them €35 directly to their bank account which also seems weird. Thanks.

by hbpaintballer88

33 comments

  1. It doesn’t look like it’s issued by the city, because the city isn’t responsible for private parking lots.

    It’s most likely legit.

  2. The „ticket“ is a request to pay a coventional fine to the operator/manager of the car park where you have parked.

    There are typically signs at the entrance explaining who is allowed to park there, when and for how long.

  3. Supermarket parking lot is private property, hence neither police nor city officals are responsible there.

    Park & Control is a private company that is hired by e.g. supermarkets to ticket on their parking lots.

  4. It’s definitely not by a city official, because they do not care one bit if you are allowed to park on a private place or not.

    Nevertheless, it’s most likely legit.
    Many supermarkets in Kaiserslautern only allow parking for customers to do their shopping. And there are signs all over the parking lot, telling you that and that it will be controlled. And if you park there, without shopping, you’ll get a ticket.

    Given it’s Sunday, you obviously weren’t there to shop.

  5. >It says to just send them €35 directly to their bank account which also seems weird.

    You put the Vorgangsnummer/Verwendungszweck in your bank transfer. It’s kind of a tracking code of your fine.

  7. Hi,
    haven’t seen their tickets, but yes, that’s how it works. You will get an “official” ticket in public space only. Since you parked on private ground, the police isn’t in the position to fine you.
    A lot of companies try to make money out of wrongfully parked vehicles.
    I guess p&c is just another one.
    I’m sorry:(

  8. You should have seen signs at the entrance to the property with the name of the company administering the parking lot (Park & Control PAC) and indicating the rules on who may park there and under what conditions — most likely it will say that it’s for customers only and explain how much you could be charged if you park there without authorization.

    It’s legit because this is private property, so the police don’t police it — but the owner is allowed to contract a private company to police it for them. And yes, you pay directly to the bank account the company has set up for the payment of these fines.

    And for sure it is stupid and petty to fine you for parking there on a day when no customers are going to need it, but the property owner doesn’t want their private property being used as a free parking lot by anyone.

  9. Unfortunately yes. Park & Control is a company that checks parking spots for supermarkets or hardware stores and the like which are used by people who don’t shop there. There are always big blue signs at the entrance of the parking area which tell you to use a “Parkscheibe”. Probably you did not see that and forgot.

    Also, if the store was closed, it is probably not allowed to park there at all during this time.

    This kind of parking control has become common in some shopping centers and even some grocery stores. You should always check if you need to use a Parkscheibe when shopping at a store that you don’t know yet.

    That this looks “weird” is because it is not an official parking fine by the city, but a private company that works for the grocery store.

  10. Park & Control is a large private entity dealing with private parking spaces for supermarkets. They got very strict.

    When parking, you are having a contract with Park & Control. Since you parked on a sunday and probably without having a clock, you violated the contract, hence the Vertragsstrafe (contract fine) of 35 €.

    It’s not like public enforced tickets, since they are under administrative law (public law), but this is a private law case between you and the private company, not the state.

  12. Either that is a contractual fine because you were not allowed to park there at all. Today was a verkaufsoffener Sonntag for example in Hamburg though

    You parked over the permissible limit (as declared by the signs posted)

    Or you didn’t post a Parkscheibe on your car either a manual blue one with the halbe stunde of your arrival (if you arrive at 9 15 am and the Parkscheibenpflicht starts at or before that you have to post 9:30am (Parkscheibe is Set to half an hour past arrival. If it is 9:35 it is to be posted as 10)) or an E1 registered and approved electronic one like the ones from needit parklite and oonoo

  14. Hey fellow Kaiserslautern citizen/visitor

    Do never, and I mean never, park at any supermarket parking lot in KL (when you are not shopping at the store). Most of them use “park and control” as their parking lot “supervisors”. They will fine you if you park longer than x hours, without a “Parkscheibe” – a card that shows the parking time – or outside of opening hours. Expecially in Zollamtstraße KL they are very strict. Most of the time you can get around paying your first ticket by calling and explaining that you can’t read German and didn’t understand or see the signs. Most times they will revoke your ticket once but never twice.

    No one likes people working for park and control. Stay safe and have fun in Kaiserslautern!

  15. 1. It’s legit.
    2. If you bought something in the supermarket and paid electronically, you might have a small chance if you show the manager the bank statement – as proof that you actually bought something from them on the day in question. Some supermarkets then declare the matter closed, as they don’t want to scare away customers, but only the freeloading parkers.

  16. Supermarket parking lots are private, therefore private companies can enforce parking violations on behalf of the property owner.
    However, you may be able to get away by simply not telling them who was driving and saying that you didn’t drive because unlike with violations issued by police/city, the driver has to pay the fine (don’t do this if it’s a rental vehicle). In this case however, you are obligated to tell the company who possibly was able to drive your car.

  18. I have successfully not paid those twice. It’s legal what they do but it’s still predatory behavior so I ain’t ashamed of that.

    The following is not advice per se but what worked for me and definitely needs a good understanding of the German language if you want to successfully dispute the fine.

    What you need to do is set up a letter you weren’t driving yourself but someone else. They will tell you you have to give up the name. Play dumb and say you don’t know who (the car is used by other family members for instance) did. They’ll ask you again and put in a court sentencing that they are in the right (they actually are) and want to frighten you into paying. Tell them again you honestly don’t know who drove the vehicle. Then they’ll try to get you to sign a “strafbewehrte Unterlassungsverfügung”. Do not sign this but tell them again that you will not pay their fine and won’t sign that contract. Also definitely state in this letter that you have no intention of paying and that you are the wrong debtor. You need to clearly state that they will have to sue you and that any costs incurred on their part _including_ lawyer fees and fees by an Inkassobüro are not eligible to be put on your tab as the charge is disputed and you are not the debtor, unless they actually go to court which they won’t.

    They will stop harassing you after that.

    Edit: I forgot to mention something. For this to work you need to wait for the first letter they send you in which they demand you pay and they will also slap on different fees, like the fee to check who the owner of the vehicle is. If you immediately contact them before that letter they have grounds to assume you were driving yourself or that someone handed you that paper slip and thus know who the person was who parked at that p&c parking lot

  19. Yes it is a private company though and they are very scummy

  20. Look, maybe call the store and beg for forgiveness. Since you didn’t cause any trouble.

    It’s a civil matter. And I had parking tickets revoked or reduced before. They are generally happy for some extra cash and don’t want a fight. And in this case it’s causing the shop some embarrassment that their goons are a bit overzealous.

    Give it a shot. Be nice and apologetic.

  22. It’s not a ticket from the city itself, been ticketed by the city myself, but grocery stores tend to hire private companies to control the lots. Makes sense though bc that parking lot is right at the base of stadium and also across from the train station so lots of people would park for free there if they didn’t control it

  23. Funnily enough: You don’t have to pay this. [https://www.adac.de/verkehr/recht/bussgeld-punkte/strafzettel-supermarktparkplatz/](https://www.adac.de/verkehr/recht/bussgeld-punkte/strafzettel-supermarktparkplatz/)

    These “tickets” are contractual fines, for a violation of the TOS /AGB. These however, unlike normal parking tickets, **only affect the driver not the owner of the car** (also known as Fahrzeughalter).

    This means that you can always claim that, at the time, you have not driven the car and therefore deny payment. But it gets better: You don’t even have to say which other person supposedly drove this vehicle. UNLESS you are being sued, in which case you have to name all *possible* drivers who could have driven your car. (Good examples are family members, collegues, friends, all that.)

    These can then also deny to be the one driving, in the end it will boil down to the fact, that “Park & Control” cannot prove who drove at the time, making the ticket invalid.

    How to deal with a scummy company 101.

    *Note there are some details you need to know if you want to go down this path, read the article I posted. It contains all the important info.

    **Alternatively you can complain to the supermarket owner. They might give you your money back and make this pesky little company disappear.

  24. It’s legit, issued by the company hired by the private parking lot owner. Since you appear to have German tags, you won’t get away with it, despite what some people say about the legal difference between vehicles owners and drivers. (Besides you just admitted you were the driver). Just wire them € 35, keep proof of the Überweisung and move on with your life.

  25. Yep, and nothing you can do about it. Don’t even try to fight it, just pay it and save the hassle… company and lawyer office will always win in Germany.
    Just remember to never shop there again

  27. It’s from a company that manages the supermarket parking lot. I’d let the supermarket know I will no longer shop with them if they treat me like this.

  29. This is a very annoying “business model” that popped up a few years ago. I got such a ticket for stopping 5 minutes to shop without putting a parking disc behind the windshield (it was literally 5 minutes before the shop closed). I complained, but to no avail. The “parking lot management company” will react very rude and bully you, threatening with a lawsuit if you refuse to pay.

    My personal opinion is that this kind of business is purely parasitic and close to highway robbery, but apparently many supermarkets sign those contracts to let their private parking lots be “managed” by those companies.

    If you get such a thing you can probably pay or maybe head for a lawsuit.

    I paid the fine and am boycotting the particular supermarket since about 5 years. The only possible chance to have this practice dissappear again is if supermarkets with those parking lots do not sell goods.

  30. is it a “legit” ticket? –
    yes and no,

    no, it is not a “legit” ticket
    (in the sense of an official one, issued by a government authority)

    rather, it is them “informing” you about the situation and offering you a solution to it outside of court … they could write whatever they want on it (and there are many scammers out there, abusing that and/or trying to squeeze way to high fees out of you)

    but:
    the fact is, that someone used their private property without their autorization [against their agb, without paying etc]

    if they have proper proof of it (photography / video of you or your car entering the area … security personal testifying, that the car was parked there etc) they have every right, to go to court for it

    the “ticket” itself however is private, an information, an offer – to resolve it outside of court … weather or not you want to take that offer is up to you

  32. The contract is made with the driver! If the company has no pictures of the driver, the owner of the vehicle is not responsible. So first request a picture of the driver from the company and boldly claim that the vehicle was lent.

  33. ‘Invoke the Fifth’—just kidding! But in Germany, you have similar protections. German law means you don’t have to disclose the identity of the driver, even if it was you, and you aren’t required to give information that could be used against you or someone else. This is why simply sticking a fine on the car isn’t automatically enforceable—just because you own the car doesn’t mean you were the one driving or parking it. They need solid proof of who was actually behind the wheel, or the fine won’t hold up!

    Inkasso agencies can try to pressure you, but you’re free to ignore them. You’re legally by no means obliged to cooperate, so ignore them completely and refuse to talk to the parking company or Inkasso. If they want to take it further, they’d have to go to court—where, once again, you’re protected. If it ever gets to a judge, all you need to say is, ‘I can’t confirm or deny who parked the car,’ and you’re done.

    We need more people in Germany to stand up for their rights and not mindlessly follow every rule. It’s time to question these unnecessary, arbitrary penalties instead of complying without thinking. Push back, assert your rights, and don’t let them intimidate you!

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