*”And she continues: “Finally, as a government, you also have to regulate and control the production and distribution of drugs . So that you at least know what’s in it for substances such as cannabis, for example.”*
Seems fair no ?
I also think this is a great idea. But our government will surely fuck this up.
Tax the drugs. Use that money for other projects or other departments like road infrastructure/culture or pay of our national debt.
Amai gesproken van een niet partijdige titel zegt…/S
Nergens staat er in het artikel dat de overheid dan maar meteen Coke moet gaan dealen of produceren.
And here we go again. The media campaign has, for decades, been careful to only ever speak of “legalization” and to imply this means everyone can do what they want and nobody can stop anybody.
They carefully avoided speaking of regularization, which, for those who don’t know: is the process by which rules are determined that people have to follow, so that handling a substance becomes safe.
About as safe as you can, anyway. Drink too much alcohol and you’ll damage your body permanently. But we have regulations for that.
They want people to be afraid. People being afraid means they vote for those who promise to fix the problem.
For politicians, the most important thing in their mind is the loss of potential voters.
I know some people will have a kneejerk reaction when it comes to legalizing hard drugs like cocaine (also what’s up with the title, might as well state that “the governement will start injecting heroine in kids” with how that’s formulated), but can we at least start with cannabis, currently the whole system is dumb af, costs a ton of money, distracts the police from more serious cases, and at the end of the day clearly doesn’t yield the desired success.
And how could it? You can buy seeds, carbon filters, growboxes or just the pot itself by simply driving an hour or so, or just order it online from the darkweb (where you get presented with every drug known to man). And the current laws don’t offer much help for those who do need it.
As long as they make sure the money goes towards healthcare, helping the addicted and mental healthcare as drug abuse tends to be more often than not a coping strategy for mental issues.
> Ook drugsexpert Tom Decorte vindt onze drugswet verouderd. “In 1921 wilden ze ‘een drugsvrije wereld’ creëren. Dat is een illusie gebleken, maar de strafwet is wel de ruggengraat van het drugsbeleid gebleven”, zegt Decorte. Hij pleit voor het loslaten van bestraffing, omdat dat volgens hem gebruikers duidelijk niet tegenhoudt. “Cannabis vertegenwoordigt 90 procent van het illegale drugsgebruik. Het belangrijkste element dat je daar als overheid tegenover moet stellen, is preventie: je moet de gezondheidsrisico’s uitleggen.”
Which is quite fair, there’s been this policy against drugs(users) for over 100 years with no avail. At what point do we stop this waste of resources and consider different avenues that might actually improve conditions for users and attack the criminal empires?
Gonna echo the things I said on another sub about this here and add some additional notes with my opinion:
* The part about “long term the government should take distribution into its own hands to avoid drug gangs” is something she would’ve better kept to herself, ofc since it’s such a ridiculous statement all headlines focus on this first, which instantly puts their proposition into a very negative light.
* Also personally I believe this is unrealistic: the cartels have other income streams than just drugs and have shown they can shift to legal products (cf avocados)
* We can look at Portugal as an example in this, where the change in drug policy seems to have been a success:
* [https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight](https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight)
* [https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/](https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/)
* [https://substanceabusepolicy.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13011-021-00394-7](https://substanceabusepolicy.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13011-021-00394-7)
* Key difference (possibly major difference) however is Portugal explicitly went for *decriminalization* and shifting from a classic ‘war on drugs’ to one against the adverse effects on health and criminality. It’s important to keep in mind the differences and Beels doesn’t seem to address this sufficiently to what degree it would be portugal-like or rather complete legalization. In Portugal you still can’t just go and buy cannabis, or coke, or heroin or whatever in a shop, it’s still a black market afaik. You just don’t get put in jail when caught with it but rather are eventually forced into some sort of rehab/counseling if I understand it correctly.
* For “soft” drugs like cannabis and possibly even light psychedelics like mushrooms I definitely see real legalization could be viable.Keep in mind this means it will be treated like alchohol: you can grow it more or less freely at home (in reasonable amounts) and a company can grow fields of it to harvest and eventually sell as product. This product will likely be taxed at a heavy rate like alchohol and sigarettes. This could mean it ends up more expensive than it is now, but the legal market will be more attractive because you can be sure of the quality and accessibility. This can be seen as an additional positive effect, given with a higher price the barrier of entry is also higher.
* For “hard” drugs like cocaine, heroin, even LSD and similar I don’t see outright legalization as a solution, I would only:
* Support a decriminalization system similar to Portugal with maybe for some things at worst a Netherlands-like decriminalization system eg: selling cocaine is “tolerated” “if it falls from the sky” (and they would pay income taxes on it).
* Support allowing testing things like said coke and xtc at parties (without confiscating it since that would defeat the point of encouraging people to test it obviously).
* Support “safe usage” centra where eg heroin addicts can go and get offered counseling/help if needed.
​
* Because it needs to be stated again: Even if we theoretically set up a system of “fairtrade cocaine” or even make all cocaine for own consumption locally somehow. The cartels will just shift to getting their income from other ventures, the idea that we can affect them by hitting the drug market at this point is an illusion, especially not as a single country and likely not even if eg. the full EU would implement such policy.
The crux for me is: will this lead to less drug use or do we need even more money going towards healthcare to cope with the ever-increasing influx of addicts, broken families and heavier substance abuse? See how much a legal substance like alcohol is abused. I think that we should invest a lot more in prevention above all
I also see a lot of practical issues. How long do some drugs remain into the system? I’d rather not be driven by, operated on or interact with employees that are high as a kite.
Great!
6% VAT if you have a doctor’s prescription
Is dit niet een onderwerp waar ze al lang mee bezig zijn?
Ik vind da wel leuk dat er om de zoveel tijd discussie opent. Ik ben er van overtuigd dat gebruikers niet als criminelen beschouwd moeten worden en dat de enige manier dat de bevolking niet vergiftigd wordt of toch niet erger vergiftigd worden is door er wat controle op te hebben. Mensen gaan hoe dan ook gebruiken, dus het illegaal houden is gewoon een gemiste kans.
Why not legalize it like in the Netherlands (canabis, not sure about hard drugs) ? That way there is less criminality involved and the state gets tax money, win-win imo.
Ik ben tegen het gestelde argument though.
Moord is ook altijd illegaal geweest, maar omdat er nog een paar gebeuren moeten we het niet meer bestraffen? zz
Coke maakt levens kapot. Cannabis is nog ok, mits mate zoals elk soortgelijk iets (zoals alcohol, sigaretten, ..) maar coke? echt? Beke snuiven.
Dat ze eens beginnen met al die beroemde of rijkere mensen die half publiek witte lijntjes liggen te snuiven zwaar bestraffen in plaats van de lokale crack addicts, dat zal al wel een ander signaal geven.
Belgium is filled with drug lovers so expect to be downvoted lol
16 comments
*”And she continues: “Finally, as a government, you also have to regulate and control the production and distribution of drugs . So that you at least know what’s in it for substances such as cannabis, for example.”*
Seems fair no ?
I also think this is a great idea. But our government will surely fuck this up.
Tax the drugs. Use that money for other projects or other departments like road infrastructure/culture or pay of our national debt.
Amai gesproken van een niet partijdige titel zegt…/S
Nergens staat er in het artikel dat de overheid dan maar meteen Coke moet gaan dealen of produceren.
Would you still call it “dealing” then?
Seems like the best possible option: regulate.
Remember this post I made a while ago? https://old.reddit.com/r/belgium/comments/ss8scs/war_against_drugs_having_its_effects_50_years/hwwvhrh/
And here we go again. The media campaign has, for decades, been careful to only ever speak of “legalization” and to imply this means everyone can do what they want and nobody can stop anybody.
They carefully avoided speaking of regularization, which, for those who don’t know: is the process by which rules are determined that people have to follow, so that handling a substance becomes safe.
About as safe as you can, anyway. Drink too much alcohol and you’ll damage your body permanently. But we have regulations for that.
They want people to be afraid. People being afraid means they vote for those who promise to fix the problem.
For politicians, the most important thing in their mind is the loss of potential voters.
I know some people will have a kneejerk reaction when it comes to legalizing hard drugs like cocaine (also what’s up with the title, might as well state that “the governement will start injecting heroine in kids” with how that’s formulated), but can we at least start with cannabis, currently the whole system is dumb af, costs a ton of money, distracts the police from more serious cases, and at the end of the day clearly doesn’t yield the desired success.
And how could it? You can buy seeds, carbon filters, growboxes or just the pot itself by simply driving an hour or so, or just order it online from the darkweb (where you get presented with every drug known to man). And the current laws don’t offer much help for those who do need it.
As long as they make sure the money goes towards healthcare, helping the addicted and mental healthcare as drug abuse tends to be more often than not a coping strategy for mental issues.
I agree. Legalize it and tax the shit out of it.
In [this GVA article](https://www.hln.be/binnenland/antwerps-schepen-jinnih-beels-vooruit-wil-101-jaar-oude-drugswet-omgooien-coke-bij-de-overheid-kopen~abe40899/) there’s a few more arguments (also since she did the [knack interview](https://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/jinnih-beels-vooruit-coke-kopen-bij-de-overheid-daar-moeten-we-naartoe/article-longread-1837729.html) along someone else):
> Ook drugsexpert Tom Decorte vindt onze drugswet verouderd. “In 1921 wilden ze ‘een drugsvrije wereld’ creëren. Dat is een illusie gebleken, maar de strafwet is wel de ruggengraat van het drugsbeleid gebleven”, zegt Decorte. Hij pleit voor het loslaten van bestraffing, omdat dat volgens hem gebruikers duidelijk niet tegenhoudt. “Cannabis vertegenwoordigt 90 procent van het illegale drugsgebruik. Het belangrijkste element dat je daar als overheid tegenover moet stellen, is preventie: je moet de gezondheidsrisico’s uitleggen.”
Which is quite fair, there’s been this policy against drugs(users) for over 100 years with no avail. At what point do we stop this waste of resources and consider different avenues that might actually improve conditions for users and attack the criminal empires?
Gonna echo the things I said on another sub about this here and add some additional notes with my opinion:
* The part about “long term the government should take distribution into its own hands to avoid drug gangs” is something she would’ve better kept to herself, ofc since it’s such a ridiculous statement all headlines focus on this first, which instantly puts their proposition into a very negative light.
* Also personally I believe this is unrealistic: the cartels have other income streams than just drugs and have shown they can shift to legal products (cf avocados)
* We can look at Portugal as an example in this, where the change in drug policy seems to have been a success:
* [https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight](https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight)
* [https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/](https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/)
* [https://substanceabusepolicy.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13011-021-00394-7](https://substanceabusepolicy.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13011-021-00394-7)
* Key difference (possibly major difference) however is Portugal explicitly went for *decriminalization* and shifting from a classic ‘war on drugs’ to one against the adverse effects on health and criminality. It’s important to keep in mind the differences and Beels doesn’t seem to address this sufficiently to what degree it would be portugal-like or rather complete legalization. In Portugal you still can’t just go and buy cannabis, or coke, or heroin or whatever in a shop, it’s still a black market afaik. You just don’t get put in jail when caught with it but rather are eventually forced into some sort of rehab/counseling if I understand it correctly.
* For “soft” drugs like cannabis and possibly even light psychedelics like mushrooms I definitely see real legalization could be viable.Keep in mind this means it will be treated like alchohol: you can grow it more or less freely at home (in reasonable amounts) and a company can grow fields of it to harvest and eventually sell as product. This product will likely be taxed at a heavy rate like alchohol and sigarettes. This could mean it ends up more expensive than it is now, but the legal market will be more attractive because you can be sure of the quality and accessibility. This can be seen as an additional positive effect, given with a higher price the barrier of entry is also higher.
* For “hard” drugs like cocaine, heroin, even LSD and similar I don’t see outright legalization as a solution, I would only:
* Support a decriminalization system similar to Portugal with maybe for some things at worst a Netherlands-like decriminalization system eg: selling cocaine is “tolerated” “if it falls from the sky” (and they would pay income taxes on it).
* Support allowing testing things like said coke and xtc at parties (without confiscating it since that would defeat the point of encouraging people to test it obviously).
* Support “safe usage” centra where eg heroin addicts can go and get offered counseling/help if needed.
​
* Because it needs to be stated again: Even if we theoretically set up a system of “fairtrade cocaine” or even make all cocaine for own consumption locally somehow. The cartels will just shift to getting their income from other ventures, the idea that we can affect them by hitting the drug market at this point is an illusion, especially not as a single country and likely not even if eg. the full EU would implement such policy.
The crux for me is: will this lead to less drug use or do we need even more money going towards healthcare to cope with the ever-increasing influx of addicts, broken families and heavier substance abuse? See how much a legal substance like alcohol is abused. I think that we should invest a lot more in prevention above all
I also see a lot of practical issues. How long do some drugs remain into the system? I’d rather not be driven by, operated on or interact with employees that are high as a kite.
Great!
6% VAT if you have a doctor’s prescription
Is dit niet een onderwerp waar ze al lang mee bezig zijn?
Ik vind da wel leuk dat er om de zoveel tijd discussie opent. Ik ben er van overtuigd dat gebruikers niet als criminelen beschouwd moeten worden en dat de enige manier dat de bevolking niet vergiftigd wordt of toch niet erger vergiftigd worden is door er wat controle op te hebben. Mensen gaan hoe dan ook gebruiken, dus het illegaal houden is gewoon een gemiste kans.
Why not legalize it like in the Netherlands (canabis, not sure about hard drugs) ? That way there is less criminality involved and the state gets tax money, win-win imo.
Ik ben tegen het gestelde argument though.
Moord is ook altijd illegaal geweest, maar omdat er nog een paar gebeuren moeten we het niet meer bestraffen? zz
Coke maakt levens kapot. Cannabis is nog ok, mits mate zoals elk soortgelijk iets (zoals alcohol, sigaretten, ..) maar coke? echt? Beke snuiven.
Dat ze eens beginnen met al die beroemde of rijkere mensen die half publiek witte lijntjes liggen te snuiven zwaar bestraffen in plaats van de lokale crack addicts, dat zal al wel een ander signaal geven.
Belgium is filled with drug lovers so expect to be downvoted lol
I’ll take tendentious titles for 200, Alex.