Such a passive aggressive post. You can do the whole year and France still comes out way better in terms of emissions because regardless of how much renewable output Germany has, they are still depending on heavily polluting sources of energy to bridge the gap.
This must be stopped! Thank God we are already voting for pro-Russia climate change deniers. /s
Let’s get things straight: we’re above 420 ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere.
Therefore renewables are great, innovations in storage are great, BUT when it comes to sciences public policies should be based on what is, not “what should be” or “what will be”. The best is often the enemy of the good. A mix of renewables and nuclear is the way to go; nuclear alone works too, and for cheaper (just look at the comparison above) ; renewables without backups is a complete disaster and will make you reliant on 1) Russia 2) nuclear and hydro imports all year round.
People downvoting such basics are no different than Trumpists or flat-earthers. Nuclear is the best parachute we have right now, deal with the facts like adults. If someday we learn how to efficiently store electricity, put vast solar panels in orbit, or master nuclear fusion and hydrogen: great. But for now we need to do the best we can with what we have
Do you also have a graph of the emissions year by year?
Finally
Informative, non biased and non hateful post about Germany on this thread ✊🇩🇪
It’s every day, bro.
Tell me when there is a day Germany look good compared to France.
And when you get back to me I’ll tell you how Germany wasted at least 20 year of emissions to get to parity with France.
French energy/green politic is much better than German and the french way is the one whole EU should follow. Just compare the energy prices in France and in Germany
Just wait until Germany builds the 5202749293 batteries needed to go 100% renewables and the French won’t be laughing anymore
This is more impressive by France than Germany.
Another bot posted same picture about 20 minutes ago down this thread.
>Germany has one of the most ambitious energy transition policies dubbed ‘Die Energiewende’ to replace nuclear- and fossil power with renewables such as wind-, solar- and biopower. The climate gas emissions are reduced by 25% in the study period of 2002 through 2022. By triangulating available information sources, the total nominal expenditures are estimated at EUR 387 bn, and the associated subsidies are some EUR 310 bn giving a total nominal expenditures of EUR 696 bn. Alternatively, Germany could have kept the existing nuclear power in 2002 and possibly invest in new nuclear capacity. The analysis of these two alternatives shows that Germany could have reached its climate gas emission target by achieving a 73% cut in emissions on top of the achievements in 2022 and simultaneously cut the spending in half compared to Energiewende. Thus, Germany should have adopted an energy policy based on keeping and expanding nuclear power.Germany has one of the most ambitious energy transition policies dubbed ‘Die Energiewende’ to replace nuclear- and fossil power with renewables such as wind-, solar- and biopower. The climate gas emissions are reduced by 25% in the study period of 2002 through 2022. By triangulating available information sources, the total nominal expenditures are estimated at EUR 387 bn, and the associated subsidies are some EUR 310 bn giving a total nominal expenditures of EUR 696 bn. Alternatively, Germany could have kept the existing nuclear power in 2002 and possibly invest in new nuclear capacity. The analysis of these two alternatives shows that Germany could have reached its climate gas emission target by achieving a 73% cut in emissions on top of the achievements in 2022 and simultaneously cut the spending in half compared to Energiewende. Thus, Germany should have adopted an energy policy based on keeping and expanding nuclear power.
What a face palm
“Share of renewables in the grid” tells us nothing in comparison to how much energy is actually being produced, or how it relates to the market as a whole.
De-commissioning nuclear power and relying on Russian gas for base-load production was very stupid in hindsight. Renewable power isn’t free, especially those batteries, all of these thousands of installations need to be replaced, fixed and cleaned regularly. Also, another factor for a bigger share in renewables is the reduction of heavy industry in Germany, thus reducing the need for higher load.
Unpopuar opinion indeed, but overall, the energy policy of traffic light coalition was actually going in a good direction (not considering the controversial planned shutdown of the last NPPs).
500bn later, still net importers of electricity.
Come on. You can do better, the graphs are just not recognizable. Troll post, at best.
And I’m all in for renewables you know.
DO BETTER.
Earlier this year, Germany decided to use €16 billion for new gas plants. I can’t really understand how «green» Germans convince themselves that they are doing good? Electricity is also crazy expensive there…
The big picture is not related to the cherry-pick, what is the average CO2Eq/kWh over the past year for France and Germany?
Wake me up when Germany is cleaner than France (CO2)
Cherry picking deluxe by OP
The last two weeks, I have been watching Germany electricity production by wind and it has always been terrible.
There is just not enough wind in Germany, relatively to the UK.
I have been pleasently surprised by solar electricity production though (for the 6 hours a day it produces…)
“share” doesn’t tell us anything because WHAT MATTER IS THAT THE FLAT AMOUNT OF CO2 EMISSION DECREASES. If fossil fuel share decreases but the overall amount doesn’t it’s worth NOTHING. You can graph the way you want to avoid the German gas and coal problem but it’s here.
JUST STOP KILLING ATOMIC ENERGY PRODUCTION! Honestly…
Thats because of coal. Renewables are still good.
France mostly gets electricity from nuclear power plants…
Is that some kind of joke ? Cherry picking on one side, and on the other, data that show another set of data not even related to carbon intensity ? How dumb do you have to be ?
I mean, you want none cherry picked data of CO², here you go, the average for year 2023 : [https://i.imgur.com/XzBVOeD.png](https://i.imgur.com/XzBVOeD.png)
So sure, you are not 10 times worst that France with you energy mix, only 7 times, good job. It was worth it (for Russia) to close your power plant and replace it by Gas. Good job.
I mean shutting down still sounds bad. But cool that there is progress!
>France: keeps house clean
>Germany: has a filthy house
>Seething Germans: but we removed our soiled underwear from the kitchen table! Did France do it?I DONT THINK SOOOO
And now show a graph of companies shutting down their German manufacturing or going out of business altogether ….
I’m so happy with the Belgian green party, they closed all our nuclear power plants and build turbojet and gas plants instead! Awesome!
This discussion is always the same
Half the comments shit on France for using nuclear the other half on Germany for not using nuclear and rather coal/gas
Yes we can absolutely agree on the fact that Germany fading out nuclear power without properly building up renewable energy was a dumbest move ever and a huge mistake
You may thank our Corrupt CDU for this
The reality is that at this point for Germany it is faster and cheaper to not rebuild nuclear power plants but to focus on renewables/proper storage solutions on their way to a carbon neutral power system.
Both France and Germany provit from this since research in both areas is shared and because the bigger the renewable market gets the cheaper it becomes
Thr cherry picked data matches the “real” data though, it’s just different metrics. France performs way better because in basically all metrics related to energy nuclear (especially pre-installed nuclear) beats or is equal to renewables, and then you factor in the other 40% of German production and you get the “cherry picked” values.
500 billion euro? And they say renewables are cheap.
It was premature and stupid to shut down nuclear plants, but still, they were at 585 gCO₂eq / kWh in 2017 (with nuclear) and went to 371 gCO₂eq / kWh in 2023, so progress is there.
* Also look at UK (20017 -> 2023): 316 -> 213 gCO₂eq / kWh
* Spain 318 -> 154 gCO₂eq / kWh
* Austria 285 -> 158 gCO₂eq / kWh
* Or even coal king Poland 909 -> 749 gCO₂eq / kWh
Renewables are real and effect is enormous and measurable.
China profits the most
This is great but we need to understand where the vast majority of it comes from. Europe literally feeds its greatest threats. Imagine a boss fight that’s already super hard, you keep dying and then you keep feeding it so it grows even more powerful.. you’ve tried 200 times and you keep failing so you think “hey, i need to make it more powerful!” Thats Europe/China
This is why Europe must work super hard on producing products ourselves. Solar is likely one of the greatest American inventions but China has turned it into a monopoly. Wind turbines, you have to replace the giant blades. They dont get fixed, they have to be completely replaced and its frequent. Also, a lot of the materials originate from China even if they’re made in Europe.
We say Russia bad while blindly feeding into China thats even more aggressive
Did germany really spent 500bn ? Why anti nuclear talk about cost then
2 différents data show here
Why is Germany so anti nuclear tho?
nuclear power > coal power.
Higest energy prices.
I don’t understand what am I seeing 🙁
Does that mean that France is better at CO2 emissions?
Germans are so sensitive.
Or, with the same money, you could have built around 50 nuclear reactors like Olkiluoto 3… (for a power output of around 80 GW)
Or, why don’t we add to the graph the capacity factor of that installed solar power…
45 comments
Source for the renewable energy share: [https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/renewable_share/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE&interval=year&legendItems=01](https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/renewable_share/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE&interval=year&legendItems=01)
Source for the installed battery capacity: [https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/installed_power/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE&interval=month&year=-1&legendItems=5w1](https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/installed_power/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE&interval=month&year=-1&legendItems=5w1)
Let’s gooo☀️🌬⚡️⚡️
Such a passive aggressive post. You can do the whole year and France still comes out way better in terms of emissions because regardless of how much renewable output Germany has, they are still depending on heavily polluting sources of energy to bridge the gap.
This must be stopped! Thank God we are already voting for pro-Russia climate change deniers. /s
Let’s get things straight: we’re above 420 ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere.
Therefore renewables are great, innovations in storage are great, BUT when it comes to sciences public policies should be based on what is, not “what should be” or “what will be”. The best is often the enemy of the good. A mix of renewables and nuclear is the way to go; nuclear alone works too, and for cheaper (just look at the comparison above) ; renewables without backups is a complete disaster and will make you reliant on 1) Russia 2) nuclear and hydro imports all year round.
People downvoting such basics are no different than Trumpists or flat-earthers. Nuclear is the best parachute we have right now, deal with the facts like adults. If someday we learn how to efficiently store electricity, put vast solar panels in orbit, or master nuclear fusion and hydrogen: great. But for now we need to do the best we can with what we have
Do you also have a graph of the emissions year by year?
Finally
Informative, non biased and non hateful post about Germany on this thread ✊🇩🇪
It’s every day, bro.
Tell me when there is a day Germany look good compared to France.
And when you get back to me I’ll tell you how Germany wasted at least 20 year of emissions to get to parity with France.
French energy/green politic is much better than German and the french way is the one whole EU should follow. Just compare the energy prices in France and in Germany
Just wait until Germany builds the 5202749293 batteries needed to go 100% renewables and the French won’t be laughing anymore
This is more impressive by France than Germany.
Another bot posted same picture about 20 minutes ago down this thread.
[https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14786451.2024.2355642](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14786451.2024.2355642)
>Germany has one of the most ambitious energy transition policies dubbed ‘Die Energiewende’ to replace nuclear- and fossil power with renewables such as wind-, solar- and biopower. The climate gas emissions are reduced by 25% in the study period of 2002 through 2022. By triangulating available information sources, the total nominal expenditures are estimated at EUR 387 bn, and the associated subsidies are some EUR 310 bn giving a total nominal expenditures of EUR 696 bn. Alternatively, Germany could have kept the existing nuclear power in 2002 and possibly invest in new nuclear capacity. The analysis of these two alternatives shows that Germany could have reached its climate gas emission target by achieving a 73% cut in emissions on top of the achievements in 2022 and simultaneously cut the spending in half compared to Energiewende. Thus, Germany should have adopted an energy policy based on keeping and expanding nuclear power.Germany has one of the most ambitious energy transition policies dubbed ‘Die Energiewende’ to replace nuclear- and fossil power with renewables such as wind-, solar- and biopower. The climate gas emissions are reduced by 25% in the study period of 2002 through 2022. By triangulating available information sources, the total nominal expenditures are estimated at EUR 387 bn, and the associated subsidies are some EUR 310 bn giving a total nominal expenditures of EUR 696 bn. Alternatively, Germany could have kept the existing nuclear power in 2002 and possibly invest in new nuclear capacity. The analysis of these two alternatives shows that Germany could have reached its climate gas emission target by achieving a 73% cut in emissions on top of the achievements in 2022 and simultaneously cut the spending in half compared to Energiewende. Thus, Germany should have adopted an energy policy based on keeping and expanding nuclear power.
What a face palm
“Share of renewables in the grid” tells us nothing in comparison to how much energy is actually being produced, or how it relates to the market as a whole.
De-commissioning nuclear power and relying on Russian gas for base-load production was very stupid in hindsight. Renewable power isn’t free, especially those batteries, all of these thousands of installations need to be replaced, fixed and cleaned regularly. Also, another factor for a bigger share in renewables is the reduction of heavy industry in Germany, thus reducing the need for higher load.
Unpopuar opinion indeed, but overall, the energy policy of traffic light coalition was actually going in a good direction (not considering the controversial planned shutdown of the last NPPs).
500bn later, still net importers of electricity.
Come on. You can do better, the graphs are just not recognizable. Troll post, at best.
And I’m all in for renewables you know.
DO BETTER.
Earlier this year, Germany decided to use €16 billion for new gas plants. I can’t really understand how «green» Germans convince themselves that they are doing good? Electricity is also crazy expensive there…
The big picture is not related to the cherry-pick, what is the average CO2Eq/kWh over the past year for France and Germany?
Wake me up when Germany is cleaner than France (CO2)
Cherry picking deluxe by OP
The last two weeks, I have been watching Germany electricity production by wind and it has always been terrible.
There is just not enough wind in Germany, relatively to the UK.
I have been pleasently surprised by solar electricity production though (for the 6 hours a day it produces…)
“share” doesn’t tell us anything because WHAT MATTER IS THAT THE FLAT AMOUNT OF CO2 EMISSION DECREASES. If fossil fuel share decreases but the overall amount doesn’t it’s worth NOTHING. You can graph the way you want to avoid the German gas and coal problem but it’s here.
JUST STOP KILLING ATOMIC ENERGY PRODUCTION! Honestly…
Thats because of coal. Renewables are still good.
France mostly gets electricity from nuclear power plants…
Is that some kind of joke ? Cherry picking on one side, and on the other, data that show another set of data not even related to carbon intensity ? How dumb do you have to be ?
I mean, you want none cherry picked data of CO², here you go, the average for year 2023 : [https://i.imgur.com/XzBVOeD.png](https://i.imgur.com/XzBVOeD.png)
So sure, you are not 10 times worst that France with you energy mix, only 7 times, good job. It was worth it (for Russia) to close your power plant and replace it by Gas. Good job.
I mean shutting down still sounds bad. But cool that there is progress!
>France: keeps house clean
>Germany: has a filthy house
>Seething Germans: but we removed our soiled underwear from the kitchen table! Did France do it?I DONT THINK SOOOO
And now show a graph of companies shutting down their German manufacturing or going out of business altogether ….
I’m so happy with the Belgian green party, they closed all our nuclear power plants and build turbojet and gas plants instead! Awesome!
This discussion is always the same
Half the comments shit on France for using nuclear the other half on Germany for not using nuclear and rather coal/gas
Yes we can absolutely agree on the fact that Germany fading out nuclear power without properly building up renewable energy was a dumbest move ever and a huge mistake
You may thank our Corrupt CDU for this
The reality is that at this point for Germany it is faster and cheaper to not rebuild nuclear power plants but to focus on renewables/proper storage solutions on their way to a carbon neutral power system.
Both France and Germany provit from this since research in both areas is shared and because the bigger the renewable market gets the cheaper it becomes
Thr cherry picked data matches the “real” data though, it’s just different metrics. France performs way better because in basically all metrics related to energy nuclear (especially pre-installed nuclear) beats or is equal to renewables, and then you factor in the other 40% of German production and you get the “cherry picked” values.
500 billion euro? And they say renewables are cheap.
It was premature and stupid to shut down nuclear plants, but still, they were at 585 gCO₂eq / kWh in 2017 (with nuclear) and went to 371 gCO₂eq / kWh in 2023, so progress is there.
* Also look at UK (20017 -> 2023): 316 -> 213 gCO₂eq / kWh
* Spain 318 -> 154 gCO₂eq / kWh
* Austria 285 -> 158 gCO₂eq / kWh
* Or even coal king Poland 909 -> 749 gCO₂eq / kWh
Renewables are real and effect is enormous and measurable.
China profits the most
This is great but we need to understand where the vast majority of it comes from. Europe literally feeds its greatest threats. Imagine a boss fight that’s already super hard, you keep dying and then you keep feeding it so it grows even more powerful.. you’ve tried 200 times and you keep failing so you think “hey, i need to make it more powerful!” Thats Europe/China
This is why Europe must work super hard on producing products ourselves. Solar is likely one of the greatest American inventions but China has turned it into a monopoly. Wind turbines, you have to replace the giant blades. They dont get fixed, they have to be completely replaced and its frequent. Also, a lot of the materials originate from China even if they’re made in Europe.
We say Russia bad while blindly feeding into China thats even more aggressive
Did germany really spent 500bn ? Why anti nuclear talk about cost then
2 différents data show here
Why is Germany so anti nuclear tho?
nuclear power > coal power.
Higest energy prices.
I don’t understand what am I seeing 🙁
Does that mean that France is better at CO2 emissions?
Germans are so sensitive.
Or, with the same money, you could have built around 50 nuclear reactors like Olkiluoto 3… (for a power output of around 80 GW)
Or, why don’t we add to the graph the capacity factor of that installed solar power…
Comments are closed.