Reform UK MP says NHS patients ‘should speak English’ in translators row
https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/reform-immigration-nhs-translator-english-b2646394.html
by Humbly_Brag
Reform UK MP says NHS patients ‘should speak English’ in translators row
https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/reform-immigration-nhs-translator-english-b2646394.html
by Humbly_Brag
30 comments
Obviously they should, translators aren’t available for every language instantly so for the NHS to do it’s job best it’s important that everyone should speak a single shared language as much as possible.
On a similar note if you visit Japan and don’t understand Japanese you won’t get the ideal medical treatment unless you know Japanese despite the locals best efforts.
While I usually don’t care for much that reform stand for, as someone who has had to sit with people who don’t speak a lick of English using a translator to discuss their benefits claim a few times, it’s hard not to agree with this to a degree. If you want to take advantage of the good parts of British culture like the welfare state, the least you could do is learn the language.
What about Welsh that’s an official language of the UK? He’d probably have a funny turn if he saw all the bilingual signs in Welsh hospitals.
Most patients do speak English. But when you’re unwell and the hospital is busy and loud and the doctor is using medical terms that don’t come up in normal conversation and you’re being asked to consent to invasive procedures that have risks, it’s much better if a translator is available so you don’t have to deal with all of that using your second or third or fourth language.
Thats how they do it in France with all government services and no one complains.
Walk into any UK Government agency that serves the public and they have a large poster/mat that has all the languages they may need. All you do is point to your language (you must be able to read) and they will then use a 3rd party service to translate what you have to say. This costs the UK a lot of money as the services are extremely expensive.
I mean, we have an ever increasing number of translators needed in the NHS, not for tourists (which would make sense), but because of the *thousands* of people living here who don’t speak a word of English.
Not sure when speaking English stopped being a requirement for immigration, but it seriously needs to come back. What’s the point of living in a country if you don’t speak the language and never even bother learning it?
I mean it’s hardly a wild idea to expect users of a national health service to be able to use the language of that nation.
Lack of English is a massive problem in my day to day. In some hospitals it feels like it is every other patient. For outpatient appointments we can get a translator in but it takes forever and becomes very inefficient. For inpatients it is even more difficult and I have no doubt non-english speakers get worse outcomes because of this.
Working in mental health for the NHS, I’m inclined to agree.
Working with interpreters is awful. They get things wrong, sometimes they mistreat the client and speak with too harsh of a tone (no, not due to language characteristics) and are unreliable af).
The level of care clients get is woeful and it makes our jobs a lot harder.
I’m an immigrant btw.
Edit: I’ll add that I don’t know what the solution would be for people already in the country. I don’t think excluding residents from services is ethical either.
Yes people living in the uk should absolutely be required to speak english, I can’t believe there’s even a debate about this
Remember when the NHS started using words like “Tummy” because people didn’t know what “stomach” meant?
Not even the English can speak English lol
I guess this is my biggest problem with Reform and the way in which it does politics.
If you or I or anyone else grumbles about a problem we perceive or a thing we dislike, fair enough. But if you’re a politician you are supposed to be in the business of solutions, and it’s so tiring to see repetition of these grumbles pass for political discussion.
“They should speak English” well they don’t. Like, they’re here and they don’t. That’s the fact we’ve got to deal with. “Well they should” so how? He’s not saying “in future we should screen for English on arrival” he’s saying people who are already here should what, just suddenly know the language? How are you gonna make it happen? Where are your solutions, man?
I’ve always believed that if you move to a country, you should try to learn the basics of their language. English is quite an intricate language as there are many different variations and inflections. I can’t stand Reform, they go against everything I believe as a human being. Having said that, if I moved to Germany, I’d try to learn basic German. If I moved to China, I’d learn basic Chinese. I think it’s just a good and respectful thing to do. It’s not about being British or English or whatever, it’s about moving to a country and accepting it’s different to where you came from. I’m proud that this country is so diverse but when the country speaks one main language, you should make an effort to learn that language so you can better adapt to your environment.
I work in the NHS in a part of the UK that starts with B and ends in irmingham, I can easily go all day without a single patient for whom English is their first language.
The availability of translators is practically zero, and even those that do get booked are frequently late, missing the patient’s appointment. When we do get an interpreter the quality of the translation we do get doesn’t fill me with confidence. Perhaps Telugu is a very succinct language but I’ve just spoken for 2 minutes and they’ve translated 2 words and nothing of what the patient replied to me.
We have a language line thing that often doesn’t work which we’re told to rely on, but it can take longer than the appointment time to try to source a Georgian translator (for example).
The mental effort involved in working like this day in day out, with people who don’t really understand you, is easy to underestimate. It’s a constant worry that people don’t understand key bits of information about their health and what further steps are required from them. I’m only glad I don’t have to take consent.
None UK citizens should be paying for private medical insurance & not be allowed to use NHS services thereby having the price of translators baked into their own costs!
Yep poor English is a massive issue in the NHS. I’m a GP and when I have a translator appointment it take atleast twice as long. I mean, everything needs to be said twice/translated so it’s a real drain.
To be honest I don’t have a massive issue with this as it happens maybe 2-3 times a week but imagine this would be more common in some areas.
It does however frustrate me to no end when I see a patient has lived here for 2-3 years and still doesn’t speak a word of English. I would argue that basic English classes should be mandatory but there is such a broad variety of languages spoke that this would be an expensive challenge. You need English teachers who speak the native language also. For example there aren’t many Dari (Afghan language) speakers who also speak english to a high enough level to teach it.
One of the few examples where I would support a private contract with Duolingo or similar.
>NHS trusts spent at least **£113,974,561** on interpreters during 2019-20 to 2021-22, an average of **£725,953** per NHS trust that replied.
>**The most commonly provided translation services by NHS trusts were into Polish (116), Romanian (116), Chinese (113) and Arabic (112)**.
https://www.taxpayersalliance.com/nhs_spending_on_interpreters_and_translation_services#:~:text=NHS%20trusts%20spent%20at%20least,%C2%A339%2C828%2C361%20in%202021%2D22.
Seems more of a problem of the NHS being ripped off by contractors. Also that there’s rarer languages that are far more expensive. We probably could compromise and provide translation services for foreign workers and tourists, and everyone else can fuck off, learn a native language.
I was living in France. You better speak French or you will struggle with doctors and red tape. So why should we be any different. It’s called attempting to integrate with the place you are living in ffs
Someone who doesn’t understand how much more difficult a medical diagnosis is if you can’t have symptoms described or get any idea of a medical history.
Whilst I very much believe that people living in England should have an understanding of the English language so that they can better integrate into communities ( I very much disapprove of ex pats abroad who make no effort to learn the local language in the same way). That would only be a basic level and would not remove the need for translators in situations where understanding is a must. Hospitals, courts and police are the things that very much spring to mind.
I wonder if the NHS will be made free ONLY for UK citizens/passport holders in the future. It does feel like the sentiment is getting there.
Presumably their travel insurance covers a translator if necessary?
If they are resident, why would anyone want to live here and not learn English asap? I keep hearing that people from minorities are disadvantaged. I’m sure they’ll want to be taking responsibility for creating an advantageous life.
As an A&E doctor this is a real issue.
It costs us a very significant chunk of time any time we need to use a translator (which is often) and it’s also quite mentally taxing a lot of the time to ensure safe communication has been had.
Not to mention the cost… I’ve seen how much the translators are paid (fair enough, they’re generally brilliant) and it must be extortionate.
I have learned a lot about languages though on the plus side as a language nerd. Had never heard of Tigrinya and barely of Kurdish sorani until this job and now I know a few phrases (namely the word for crying lol)
They should have to hire a translator at their own cost. The working people of this country are fed up paying for the shortfalls of others.
When I had my first child, the woman across from me in the labour ward spoke no English. The woman with her claimed to be her sister in law, and “would be making decisions on behalf of the husband since men aren’t allowed to be involved in childbirth in our culture.” I never saw them, they kept the curtains closed, but I heard them – the translator insisted on staying overnight, when no one else was allowed visitors past 10pm. And said translator kept shushing this poor woman all night as she moaned and groaned. She told the nurses that this woman had four kids already and “did not consent” so painkillers. Or being checked to see how far along she was. Or having her blood pressure monitored. This poor woman ended up missing delivery suite entirely and giving birth completely unmedicated on the Antenatal ward without a midwife present (another patient saw the waters leaking out from under the curtain and called them in, baby was already crowning and they rushed us all out)
Learning English is vital, only because this “translator” abused the vulnerability of the patient and she couldn’t ask for help.
I think if you live in a country, you should learn the native language (and this includes Brits who live abroad who are probably the worst at expecting everyone to speak English). Visitors are a different issue but all should be required to have medical insurance which would cover the cost of treatment and translators and so not necessary for the cost to come from NHS budgets.
Having had the pleasure and horror of North Middlesex A&E one night a year ago – people shouting all kinds of languages, 90% of the people their were foreign – it clearly causes all kinds of problems. Even some of the patients in the waiting room were trying to translate on behalf of others.
If you’ve got the odd person – it’s not problem, what I saw was an absolute joke. Communication / speed is never going to work under that environment.
As much as I don’t like reform, I agree. The patients should sort their own translators rather than forcing the taxpayer to cough up for yet another balooning cost when the NHS is struggling as it is.
There’s a big difference between being able to get by day to day, over being able to explain your full past medical history, history of presenting complaint, time of onset of pain, character of pain, aggravating and alleviating factors, associated symptoms and other related issues.
You’re looking at C1 level minimum, which without an extremely well funded and supportive language service to teach people this, is frankly an unachievable goal.
Bigger question “How many immigrants are given British nationality even though they don’t speak English and there are other who have been in Britain for a number of years, speak perfect English, have to jump through many hoops”. Mind boggles
You don’t get a translator in the Spanish health service. You either speak Spanish or take someone with you that does. Seems fair enough, save money or reallocate the funding to pay for extra nurses.
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