Well Britain was fighting Napoleon during the war of 1812. It was a sideshow.
Also we achieved our aims in keeping the US out of Canada and the Carribbean in that war. The US didnt achieve any of its wargoals really.
Also only one side had their capital burn down and it wasnt ours
So who really “won” that war?
eh, technically the war of 1812 was a draw as both parties signed the treaty of Ghent. Or something and some such. However, one of the reasons for the war was the USA’s ambition to spread into Canada. To which all attempts were routinely defeated by the British. So technically the Brits won it.
But, yeah, typically we aren’t taught the intricacies of the minor wars we had in the past (There were so many). With so much History to cover in so little time. We are taught the important things and the war of 1812 was not important for us, as a nation. The war with Napoleon was in full swing and that was far more important to us militarily, culturally, and educationally.
We did get taught about Boston tea party, representation on taxation etc but only briefly because in the grand scheme of things to be taught it’s insignificant. I.e the slave trade, world wars, holocaust, kristalnacht, etc are more important
Pretty much. We’ve done this sort of thing all over the world, long before any of us were born. You’ve also got to remember that while we did own a lot of colonies, our ancestors were the ones who stayed here and unless you’re Native American, you’re the coloniser.
Yeah, pretty much. It’s certainly less significant than our history with France.
Americans make a big deal out of beating the British, but to us you ARE the British. A bunch of us rebelled against another bunch of us overseas. Great.
Pretty much.
I think my ancestors were probably down a mine in Wales at the time and had nothing to do with colonisation or imperialism or overseas wars – if anything they were more likely to be victims of the system. Not much connection with the North American soon-to-be ex-colonies at the time (although a distant cousin later migrated to Ohio, I’ve since learned. 3 of his brothers moved to New Zealand).
Yes. America wasn’t even close to being the most important set of colonies for the British Empire. The Caribbean islands were far, far more profitable, A credible argument has been made to suggest that the loss of the 13 colonies was actually the catalyst for the British Empire becoming the biggest and most profitable in history – the subsequent refocus onto Asia and later Africa.
It’s also insane cope for Americans to suggest they won the War of 1812 – most Americans only think that because they just know the USA won the final battle (New Orleans) and assume that translates into a victory, but the result via the Treaty of Ghent was *Status Quo Ante Bellum*, and the reality of the situation was a draw *at the very best* for the USA. At worst, the entire eastern seaboard had been raided, the American economy was in tatters, and they’d failed to annexe Canada. The British Empire, on the other hand, achieved its lone war aim – to defend Canada. The only concession that the USA won was the formal end to pressganging, which the British had already stopped of their own volition well before the war ended.
I played overwatch for years and always Americans on the server
So many are slathering to bring up the civil war and they can’t handle it when I tell them we don’t learn about that shit in school. If we do, it’s always as a ‘did you know’ and then we move on.
The war of independence was a civil war. For Americans it’s a defining moment in the nation’s history. For us it was a Chewsday.
But seriously, we were busy fighting pretty much everyone else at the same time. As far as we were concerned our holdings in India and Africa were far more important.
The American colonies were never anything special to Britain.
India on the other hand, now that was an absolute Jewel!
Also, 1812 saw the USA try to annex Canada, and fail miserably as both Canada and her British allies soundly kicked America’s arse so badly we were able to cross the border and burn down the original White House. You don’t really get to do that to your enemy’s capital if you’ve failed at fighting them in a war they started.
Generally, yeah. Most people in the UK really aren’t that interested in the American Revolution or the war of 1812.
Why?
Partially because we’re not taught it, a lot of focus in UK history in schools is focused mainly on the world wars, with a little bit of interest in the Tudors.
Also, Both times, the British Empire was fighting larger wars against the French, that made what was happening in the US very much a side issue.
Some American’s obsession with 1812 is weird, and I don’t see how it can be argued the US won. At best it’s a draw, at worst you lost. Generally, from the British side, we wanted to keep you out of Canada and the Caribbean. Both aims were achieved. I’ve heard it argued that the UK also wanted to reclaim parts of the US, and maybe and if so, we failed to do that. But that doesn’t mean the US won, you just didn’t lose. The US failed to achieve any of its war aims. You also had your capitol burnt to the ground.
What did M.Bison say in the Street Fighter film when he talked about killing Chun Lis father?
*”For you, the day Bison graced your village was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday”*
For Britain, so much of what happened in empire was Tuesday, harsh but true.
Yeah America wasn’t that important. Don’t get me wrong it would have been a nice feather in the cap for financial services and investments for manufacturing but that’s pretty much just new England and the rust belt. The rest of Britian’s colonies were better for stuff like cotten than the south was, Canada and new zeland produced enough food and fur that we didn’t need America’s bread basket plus southern slavery was far more of an issue than the south was worth. Not to mention that all the resources like tea, spices, drugs, precious metals, gemstones, oil, whaling, taxes and manpower were all done far far better in the other colonies than America when they got their independence and before manifest destiny.
The only US colonies that were truely a loss were the rust belt and new England, which would be like loosing a Scotland or North of England in every way other than security issues. But the Empire was big enough to take those losses.
Kinda yeah. Don’t forget, we were became one of the most powerful empires to ever exist, after the US gained independence.
Losing the 13 colonies was quite a trivial thing when compared to the other operations we had going on at the time (I.e. India, Australia, parts of Africa, and we still had Canada).
Both the US war of Independence and the war of 1812 were both effectively proxy wars against France and Spain. To try and describe it in terms that an American might relate to; our attitude towards wars against the US is likely similar to how the US views Vietnam or Korea. Those weren’t wars against those countries but rather wars of influence (Communism vs American free market capitalism).
The general vibe is that soooo many people emigrated to America that it’s more like, “oh, a colony of English people got independence from other English people”, and “makes sense, we didn’t like George 3rd either”. It’s not us vs. you.
Whereas Napolean is a HUGE deal, and when it comes to the empire, the Caribbean and India/Pakistan are much more relevant and important to us.
I would say even the Crimean War is more in the public consciousness, Charge of the Light Brigade, Florence Nightingale, etc. A lot of art and literature is about it.
Tiny little island once ruled a vast proportion of the world 🌍 💪🏻💪🏻 pity we are broken Britain these days 🇬🇧🚮
There’s a quote from the under appreciated 90’s classic ‘Street fighter’ that sums up the British attitude to this:
Chun-Li: My father saved his village at the cost of his own life. You had him shot as you ran away. A hero at a thousand paces.
M. Bison: …I’m sorry. I don’t remember any of it.
Chun-Li: *You don’t remember?!*
Bison: For you, the day Bison graced your village was the most important day of your life. But for me? It was Tuesday.
I had this conversation last night on Twitter. An American saying ‘we kicked you out’ we did this and that etc..
I pointed out that ‘we’ is actually ‘us’. It was British people and their descendants that fought against the British army in retaliation for over taxation and unfair treatment from the crown.
It was Britain vs Britain. They won because France and Spain also saw this as an opportunity to grab some land back and got involved, leaving the UK to fight against 3 nations.
Pretty much and I just don’t think about the history with the Yanks either. I respect and think about the French a lot more even though they beat us in a bunch of wars because that is what we were taught and because our history is more entwined too.
The ‘war of independence’/1812 were proxy wars to wider conflicts going on in Europe. The French Revolution and the Napoleonic wars get far more airtime. North America was an adjunct to this.
History at school in the UK is far too heavily weighted towards big personalities. Henry VIII is an important figure with the break from Rome but I felt like far too much time was spent on him and his wives to the detriment of other areas.
A few things here. America did not win the war of 1812, they invaded Canada and they were repelled. The White House which was actually green at the time got burnt to the ground and a peace treaty was signed. That’s an L for America.
While I would agree in general terms with many of the points above, the thirteen colonies were very important to Britain in a strategic and economic sense. Their loss in part prompted wider colonial expansion to Australia and South Africa.
The reason why American independence features less in the British popular consciousness is because it was a long time ago, and relations with America in the last 200 years have generally been friendly.
I don’t rlly care about the war for independence but I have seen a lot of Americans claiming that they defeated the empire fare and square and that they were a comparable military might.
They were not, Britain at the time has bigger fish to fry and just let it slide but came back in 1812 to say that they could easily conquer them if they wanted to.
I remember when I was younger I would see Americans talking about a 13 colony lead or the Revolutionary War online and having no idea what they were referring to. I had some vague idea of the Boston Tea Party and that America had once been British but it’s just not something that is ever taught or considered important here.
The disconnect is that, for America, it’s obviously an integral part of their history, whereas for us it’s much less significant. I guess it’s probably a similar situation with us and France with the Norman Invasion.
US history overwrites the worlds so much but then they realise we actually don’t care so much about their history like they do to the rest of ours.
Bloody World series American football indeed, u 456…. .. lol
Not just another colony, a failed colony.
It’s like a colonisation experiment that went wrong and when it very quickly became a shit show, we just couldn’t be bothered.
It was much easier to subjugate India and east Asia for a much higher return.
It’s not much of a thought to be fair, I mean I am indifferent towards a war that happened 250 years ago that led to a British colony becoming an independent state. I’ve got a history degree and American history is quite interesting on the political side. I just think it’s fascinating how similar yet utterly different are cultures are. Also I’ve always found Americans (to be fair I’ve visited 4 times, all on holiday) to be a lot more patriotic than the average Brit. I think it’s because USA is a relatively new nation so has been subjected to a lot more ‘nation-building’ than the UK in terms of the ‘story’ of the nation, so it matters a lot more to you than us.
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Well Britain was fighting Napoleon during the war of 1812. It was a sideshow.
Also we achieved our aims in keeping the US out of Canada and the Carribbean in that war. The US didnt achieve any of its wargoals really.
Also only one side had their capital burn down and it wasnt ours
So who really “won” that war?
eh, technically the war of 1812 was a draw as both parties signed the treaty of Ghent. Or something and some such. However, one of the reasons for the war was the USA’s ambition to spread into Canada. To which all attempts were routinely defeated by the British. So technically the Brits won it.
But, yeah, typically we aren’t taught the intricacies of the minor wars we had in the past (There were so many). With so much History to cover in so little time. We are taught the important things and the war of 1812 was not important for us, as a nation. The war with Napoleon was in full swing and that was far more important to us militarily, culturally, and educationally.
We did get taught about Boston tea party, representation on taxation etc but only briefly because in the grand scheme of things to be taught it’s insignificant. I.e the slave trade, world wars, holocaust, kristalnacht, etc are more important
Pretty much. We’ve done this sort of thing all over the world, long before any of us were born. You’ve also got to remember that while we did own a lot of colonies, our ancestors were the ones who stayed here and unless you’re Native American, you’re the coloniser.
Yeah, pretty much. It’s certainly less significant than our history with France.
Americans make a big deal out of beating the British, but to us you ARE the British. A bunch of us rebelled against another bunch of us overseas. Great.
Pretty much.
I think my ancestors were probably down a mine in Wales at the time and had nothing to do with colonisation or imperialism or overseas wars – if anything they were more likely to be victims of the system. Not much connection with the North American soon-to-be ex-colonies at the time (although a distant cousin later migrated to Ohio, I’ve since learned. 3 of his brothers moved to New Zealand).
Yes. America wasn’t even close to being the most important set of colonies for the British Empire. The Caribbean islands were far, far more profitable, A credible argument has been made to suggest that the loss of the 13 colonies was actually the catalyst for the British Empire becoming the biggest and most profitable in history – the subsequent refocus onto Asia and later Africa.
It’s also insane cope for Americans to suggest they won the War of 1812 – most Americans only think that because they just know the USA won the final battle (New Orleans) and assume that translates into a victory, but the result via the Treaty of Ghent was *Status Quo Ante Bellum*, and the reality of the situation was a draw *at the very best* for the USA. At worst, the entire eastern seaboard had been raided, the American economy was in tatters, and they’d failed to annexe Canada. The British Empire, on the other hand, achieved its lone war aim – to defend Canada. The only concession that the USA won was the formal end to pressganging, which the British had already stopped of their own volition well before the war ended.
I played overwatch for years and always Americans on the server
So many are slathering to bring up the civil war and they can’t handle it when I tell them we don’t learn about that shit in school. If we do, it’s always as a ‘did you know’ and then we move on.
The war of independence was a civil war. For Americans it’s a defining moment in the nation’s history. For us it was a Chewsday.
But seriously, we were busy fighting pretty much everyone else at the same time. As far as we were concerned our holdings in India and Africa were far more important.
The American colonies were never anything special to Britain.
India on the other hand, now that was an absolute Jewel!
Also, 1812 saw the USA try to annex Canada, and fail miserably as both Canada and her British allies soundly kicked America’s arse so badly we were able to cross the border and burn down the original White House. You don’t really get to do that to your enemy’s capital if you’ve failed at fighting them in a war they started.
Generally, yeah. Most people in the UK really aren’t that interested in the American Revolution or the war of 1812.
Why?
Partially because we’re not taught it, a lot of focus in UK history in schools is focused mainly on the world wars, with a little bit of interest in the Tudors.
Also, Both times, the British Empire was fighting larger wars against the French, that made what was happening in the US very much a side issue.
Some American’s obsession with 1812 is weird, and I don’t see how it can be argued the US won. At best it’s a draw, at worst you lost. Generally, from the British side, we wanted to keep you out of Canada and the Caribbean. Both aims were achieved. I’ve heard it argued that the UK also wanted to reclaim parts of the US, and maybe and if so, we failed to do that. But that doesn’t mean the US won, you just didn’t lose. The US failed to achieve any of its war aims. You also had your capitol burnt to the ground.
What did M.Bison say in the Street Fighter film when he talked about killing Chun Lis father?
*”For you, the day Bison graced your village was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday”*
For Britain, so much of what happened in empire was Tuesday, harsh but true.
Yeah America wasn’t that important. Don’t get me wrong it would have been a nice feather in the cap for financial services and investments for manufacturing but that’s pretty much just new England and the rust belt. The rest of Britian’s colonies were better for stuff like cotten than the south was, Canada and new zeland produced enough food and fur that we didn’t need America’s bread basket plus southern slavery was far more of an issue than the south was worth. Not to mention that all the resources like tea, spices, drugs, precious metals, gemstones, oil, whaling, taxes and manpower were all done far far better in the other colonies than America when they got their independence and before manifest destiny.
The only US colonies that were truely a loss were the rust belt and new England, which would be like loosing a Scotland or North of England in every way other than security issues. But the Empire was big enough to take those losses.
Kinda yeah. Don’t forget, we were became one of the most powerful empires to ever exist, after the US gained independence.
Losing the 13 colonies was quite a trivial thing when compared to the other operations we had going on at the time (I.e. India, Australia, parts of Africa, and we still had Canada).
Both the US war of Independence and the war of 1812 were both effectively proxy wars against France and Spain. To try and describe it in terms that an American might relate to; our attitude towards wars against the US is likely similar to how the US views Vietnam or Korea. Those weren’t wars against those countries but rather wars of influence (Communism vs American free market capitalism).
The general vibe is that soooo many people emigrated to America that it’s more like, “oh, a colony of English people got independence from other English people”, and “makes sense, we didn’t like George 3rd either”. It’s not us vs. you.
Whereas Napolean is a HUGE deal, and when it comes to the empire, the Caribbean and India/Pakistan are much more relevant and important to us.
I would say even the Crimean War is more in the public consciousness, Charge of the Light Brigade, Florence Nightingale, etc. A lot of art and literature is about it.
Tiny little island once ruled a vast proportion of the world 🌍 💪🏻💪🏻 pity we are broken Britain these days 🇬🇧🚮
There’s a quote from the under appreciated 90’s classic ‘Street fighter’ that sums up the British attitude to this:
Chun-Li: My father saved his village at the cost of his own life. You had him shot as you ran away. A hero at a thousand paces.
M. Bison: …I’m sorry. I don’t remember any of it.
Chun-Li: *You don’t remember?!*
Bison: For you, the day Bison graced your village was the most important day of your life. But for me? It was Tuesday.
I had this conversation last night on Twitter. An American saying ‘we kicked you out’ we did this and that etc..
I pointed out that ‘we’ is actually ‘us’. It was British people and their descendants that fought against the British army in retaliation for over taxation and unfair treatment from the crown.
It was Britain vs Britain. They won because France and Spain also saw this as an opportunity to grab some land back and got involved, leaving the UK to fight against 3 nations.
Pretty much and I just don’t think about the history with the Yanks either. I respect and think about the French a lot more even though they beat us in a bunch of wars because that is what we were taught and because our history is more entwined too.
The ‘war of independence’/1812 were proxy wars to wider conflicts going on in Europe. The French Revolution and the Napoleonic wars get far more airtime. North America was an adjunct to this.
History at school in the UK is far too heavily weighted towards big personalities. Henry VIII is an important figure with the break from Rome but I felt like far too much time was spent on him and his wives to the detriment of other areas.
A few things here. America did not win the war of 1812, they invaded Canada and they were repelled. The White House which was actually green at the time got burnt to the ground and a peace treaty was signed. That’s an L for America.
While I would agree in general terms with many of the points above, the thirteen colonies were very important to Britain in a strategic and economic sense. Their loss in part prompted wider colonial expansion to Australia and South Africa.
The reason why American independence features less in the British popular consciousness is because it was a long time ago, and relations with America in the last 200 years have generally been friendly.
I don’t rlly care about the war for independence but I have seen a lot of Americans claiming that they defeated the empire fare and square and that they were a comparable military might.
They were not, Britain at the time has bigger fish to fry and just let it slide but came back in 1812 to say that they could easily conquer them if they wanted to.
I remember when I was younger I would see Americans talking about a 13 colony lead or the Revolutionary War online and having no idea what they were referring to. I had some vague idea of the Boston Tea Party and that America had once been British but it’s just not something that is ever taught or considered important here.
The disconnect is that, for America, it’s obviously an integral part of their history, whereas for us it’s much less significant. I guess it’s probably a similar situation with us and France with the Norman Invasion.
US history overwrites the worlds so much but then they realise we actually don’t care so much about their history like they do to the rest of ours.
Bloody World series American football indeed, u 456…. .. lol
Not just another colony, a failed colony.
It’s like a colonisation experiment that went wrong and when it very quickly became a shit show, we just couldn’t be bothered.
It was much easier to subjugate India and east Asia for a much higher return.
It’s not much of a thought to be fair, I mean I am indifferent towards a war that happened 250 years ago that led to a British colony becoming an independent state. I’ve got a history degree and American history is quite interesting on the political side. I just think it’s fascinating how similar yet utterly different are cultures are. Also I’ve always found Americans (to be fair I’ve visited 4 times, all on holiday) to be a lot more patriotic than the average Brit. I think it’s because USA is a relatively new nation so has been subjected to a lot more ‘nation-building’ than the UK in terms of the ‘story’ of the nation, so it matters a lot more to you than us.
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