Isn’t this kind of meaningless to compare different cars? Is it cheaper because it’s in China or because it’s a BYD instead of a Volkswagen?
We helped build our own destruction.
People have been saying this for more than a year now. Chinese manufacturers are able to produce good cars, cheaper. US and European manufacturers have to come up with ways to reduce their costs. This can be done through automation, outsourcing jobs to cheaper labor markets, or by paying people in their own countries less. There are no other ways if they aim to remain competitive.
Ok, now ask yourself, who makes a better wage – a German, or a Chinese automotive worker?
This is the same old story like it was with Xiaomi phones flooding the world market. Heavly government subsidized companies, with products priced to be sold at a loss, with interest to saturate the market and choke out competitors.
Time passed, look at Xiaomi – atm no different than Samsung with prices in each tier of phone.
They are propagating the same strategy with EVs. Price as low as possible, made by one of the cheapest labor in the world, then when some of the competitors get choaked out, scale the price up to the normal level.
I remain a conscious consumer, I try to vote with my Euros where it impacts our economy better. I’m a Skoda customer as long as they compete.
[removed]
I’m flabbergasted!
How is the price of the BYD Seal from 2021 when the car was only launched in August 2022 and only reached Europe in September 2023?
Also, Seal is D-Segment, ID.3 is C-Segment.
Kind of misleading since BYD makes most components of the car in house which is cheaper for them than buying everything from a supplier like Volkswagen does.
So in the end the biggest difference in cost would only be labor and distribution.
yea but wouldn’t it be approximately equally cheap to produce in vietnam, indonesia or india or similar ?
The 77% cheaper workforce cost hits hard on an emotional level, but it was also kinda obvious as wages in China are way less than the western world.
Some people are blind to read the graph with a stereotype of cheaper labour in China, don’t you notice that labour cost contributes to a fraction of production costs? The education system is really broken in some countries.
Labor is the least impacting cost on that chart. Instead, it is always said it’s one of the most important aspects impacting the differences with prices of China’s EV.
We must stop the spread of this kind of bullshit when someone comes up by blaming European salaries and welfare. They need to go to fuck off.
Everyone saying these Chinese cars are unreliable and will break after one pothole are so wrong it hurts. These cars meet EU and USA safety standards now. They can go toe to toe with anyone other car on the market. They are cheaper and more reliable then most cars produced in EU/USA. How come Korea and japan make great reliable cars for cheaper but when it’s China all the sudden they are crap?
1. Higher wages in Germany align with higher living costs and social benefits.
2. German automotive manufacturing has a reputation for precision and durability. So, lower wages or factory expenditures could result in potential compromises.
3. Germany has stricter environmental and regulatory standards for manufacturing compared to China.
4. A significant portion of China’s cost advantage might stem from proximity to raw materials.
One thing that’s left out is environmental impact due to lack of regulation in China. That is a huge cost internalized for VW and not for BYD.
Why not compare statistics of spontanious combusting German vs Chinese cars? This statistics is like comparing xiaomi vs iphone
but does BYD have that satiated satisfying door closing sound of VW cars? i think not!
hahha just joking. good riddance VW. you had no shame of charging for bluetooth option up until recently.
So these tariffs are made to ensure high paying jobs in Germany by screwing over the rest of Europe with more expensive cars?
Buying Chinese stuff now is like buying Russian oil or anything else. Financing the enemies of the West.
You can’t compare 2 totally different cars in cost.
Also, it’ll always be true that labour is cheaper in China and the CCP pumps a lot of money into the car industry with as goal to overtake the European market.
does this include state subsidies for BYD?
Isn’t electric cars industry heavily subsidized in China?
The cost of industrial energy in Germany is high, second only to the UK, making production less attractive in those countries. Car plants (and the parts that go into them) are energy intensive.
Savings in China are often made by ignoring of the environment, safety and/or workers …. and the government pushes a lot of money into these companies. Not surprising.
Well it costs what it costs not gonna demean myself and buy a chinese ev. Ever. Period. It’s mercedes or otherwise Ill just take a bus or tram.
26 comments
Isn’t this kind of meaningless to compare different cars? Is it cheaper because it’s in China or because it’s a BYD instead of a Volkswagen?
We helped build our own destruction.
People have been saying this for more than a year now. Chinese manufacturers are able to produce good cars, cheaper. US and European manufacturers have to come up with ways to reduce their costs. This can be done through automation, outsourcing jobs to cheaper labor markets, or by paying people in their own countries less. There are no other ways if they aim to remain competitive.
Ok, now ask yourself, who makes a better wage – a German, or a Chinese automotive worker?
This is the same old story like it was with Xiaomi phones flooding the world market. Heavly government subsidized companies, with products priced to be sold at a loss, with interest to saturate the market and choke out competitors.
Time passed, look at Xiaomi – atm no different than Samsung with prices in each tier of phone.
They are propagating the same strategy with EVs. Price as low as possible, made by one of the cheapest labor in the world, then when some of the competitors get choaked out, scale the price up to the normal level.
I remain a conscious consumer, I try to vote with my Euros where it impacts our economy better. I’m a Skoda customer as long as they compete.
[removed]
I’m flabbergasted!
How is the price of the BYD Seal from 2021 when the car was only launched in August 2022 and only reached Europe in September 2023?
Also, Seal is D-Segment, ID.3 is C-Segment.
Kind of misleading since BYD makes most components of the car in house which is cheaper for them than buying everything from a supplier like Volkswagen does.
So in the end the biggest difference in cost would only be labor and distribution.
yea but wouldn’t it be approximately equally cheap to produce in vietnam, indonesia or india or similar ?
The 77% cheaper workforce cost hits hard on an emotional level, but it was also kinda obvious as wages in China are way less than the western world.
Some people are blind to read the graph with a stereotype of cheaper labour in China, don’t you notice that labour cost contributes to a fraction of production costs? The education system is really broken in some countries.
Labor is the least impacting cost on that chart. Instead, it is always said it’s one of the most important aspects impacting the differences with prices of China’s EV.
We must stop the spread of this kind of bullshit when someone comes up by blaming European salaries and welfare. They need to go to fuck off.
Everyone saying these Chinese cars are unreliable and will break after one pothole are so wrong it hurts. These cars meet EU and USA safety standards now. They can go toe to toe with anyone other car on the market. They are cheaper and more reliable then most cars produced in EU/USA. How come Korea and japan make great reliable cars for cheaper but when it’s China all the sudden they are crap?
1. Higher wages in Germany align with higher living costs and social benefits.
2. German automotive manufacturing has a reputation for precision and durability. So, lower wages or factory expenditures could result in potential compromises.
3. Germany has stricter environmental and regulatory standards for manufacturing compared to China.
4. A significant portion of China’s cost advantage might stem from proximity to raw materials.
One thing that’s left out is environmental impact due to lack of regulation in China. That is a huge cost internalized for VW and not for BYD.
Why not compare statistics of spontanious combusting German vs Chinese cars? This statistics is like comparing xiaomi vs iphone
but does BYD have that satiated satisfying door closing sound of VW cars? i think not!
hahha just joking. good riddance VW. you had no shame of charging for bluetooth option up until recently.
So these tariffs are made to ensure high paying jobs in Germany by screwing over the rest of Europe with more expensive cars?
Buying Chinese stuff now is like buying Russian oil or anything else. Financing the enemies of the West.
You can’t compare 2 totally different cars in cost.
Also, it’ll always be true that labour is cheaper in China and the CCP pumps a lot of money into the car industry with as goal to overtake the European market.
does this include state subsidies for BYD?
Isn’t electric cars industry heavily subsidized in China?
The cost of industrial energy in Germany is high, second only to the UK, making production less attractive in those countries. Car plants (and the parts that go into them) are energy intensive.
Savings in China are often made by ignoring of the environment, safety and/or workers …. and the government pushes a lot of money into these companies. Not surprising.
Well it costs what it costs not gonna demean myself and buy a chinese ev. Ever. Period. It’s mercedes or otherwise Ill just take a bus or tram.
Mmmm
Yes
This floor is made of floor
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