Kyiv says only full NATO membership acceptable

https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2024/12/03/ukraines-foreign-ministry-says-only-full-nato-membership-acceptable-to-kyiv-en-news

by duckanroll

37 comments

  1. At this point, that *and* the nukes is probably more like it.

  2. I fear they’re going to have to give up the occupied territory for that. 🙁

  3. No shit, Putin demonstrated exactly why.

    Should have they respected the non-invasion agreement when Ukraine gave away their Nuclear weapon, Kyiv would have never wished for NATO membership. You can’t trust Russia.

  4. And it is entirely unrealistic.

    Like sorry but for how long did just Hungary and Turkey kept Sweden and Finland out without ongoing conflicts there ? We are in no position to make such ultimatums , because we don’t even know will the NATO current political will be enough to uniformly accept us , even on some dead-on-arrival partial memberships .

  5. Dont think NATO is anywhere on the list of things Putin would agree to and they know it. Are they trying to botch the peace deals?

  6. Ok, and what if they get it and then within 3 years, Trump pulls the USA out of NATO?

    Because I feel we aren’t having that discussion. And Trump is definitely capable of doing it.

  7. As much as I want to support Ukraine with weapons and funding, I don’t think they should join NATO or the EU any time soon. They are literally in a war.

  8. NATO membership is what this shitshow started over, why do they think Russia is gonna accept that?

  9. I remember from my childhood there were some stories that to root out evil, have to cut off the head of the monster

    I also remember and it’s even on YouTube, there was a drone visiting in Venezuela Nicolas Maduro and flying to him very closely

  11. I feel like It would be much easier for Ukraine to get nukes than to get into NATO.

  12. I find it unlikely. I agree 100%, but, I find it unfortunately unlikely.

  13. They smoke something really strong there. The longer they drag this war, the less territory they will have at the end. There is no scenario where already occupied territories go back to Ukraine. They need to sit down at the table asap and stop listening to everybody else

  14. Yes NATO member ship AND nuclear weapons. It is clear that not having nukes means you will always be at the mercy of any nuclear state that wants a chunk outta you, Ukraine ain gonna make the same mistake again.

  15. Well, of course.

    So far the “security guarantees” they had were worth jack shit.

  16. >Kyiv has said that it would only consider joining NATO as a full member, rejecting any alternative formats under which it might be invited to join the defence alliance, a statement issued by the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry [said](https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2024/12/3/7199750/) on Tuesday.

    >In the statement, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Andrii Sybiha said that Ukraine’s full membership of NATO would be “the only real guarantee of security for Ukraine” that was available and that it would serve as “a deterrent to further Russian aggression against Ukraine and other states”.

    >The ministry referred to the Budapest Memorandum, which was signed by Russia, Ukraine, the UK and the US in December 1994 and provided security assurances to Ukraine in exchange for Kyiv giving up its nuclear weapons, as a “monument to short-sightedness in strategic security decision-making”.

    >While the memorandum represented a “significant step in strengthening global nuclear disarmament”, it ultimately failed to prevent Russia’s aggression against Ukraine, the statement continued. “With the bitter experience of the Budapest Memorandum behind us, we will not accept any alternatives, surrogates or substitutes for Ukraine’s full membership in NATO,” the ministry stressed.

    >However, NATO is highly unlikely to extend an invitation to Ukraine for full membership at a meeting in Brussels on Tuesday, Reuters [reported](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/nato-expected-sidestep-ukraines-call-quick-invite-2024-12-03/), citing the lack of consensus on the issue among NATO’s 32 member states, which a senior NATO diplomat said could “take weeks and months” to reach.

    >Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has been signalling Kyiv’s readiness to make concessions to end the war over the past month, [telling](https://news.sky.com/story/zelenskyy-suggests-hes-prepared-to-end-ukraine-war-in-return-for-nato-membership-even-if-russia-doesnt-immediately-return-seized-land-13263085) Sky News in an interview on Friday that NATO membership would have to be offered to unoccupied parts of Ukraine in order to end the “hot phase of the war”, as long as the invitation acknowledged Ukraine’s internationally recognised borders.

    >Zelensky appeared to accept that the Russian-occupied eastern regions of Ukraine would fall outside such a deal, Sky News reported. In November Zelensky [told](https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2024/11/21/ukraine-ready-to-pursue-diplomatic-return-of-crimea-to-avoid-bloodshed-says-zelensky-en-news) Fox News that Ukraine was prepared to pursue the return of Russian-annexed Crimea through diplomatic rather than military channels to avoid the loss of “thousands” of Ukrainian lives.

  17. That’s the only reasonable course of action.

    Can’t remember the exact name, but a French general said after the terms of peace at Versailles in 1919: ” this is not peace. This a 20 years truce”.

    You can’t trust Russia aftet the blatant and repeated violations of its word, from the Budapest memorandum to the Minsk accords. They will simply use the time to regroup and prepare for the next invasion. Just like they didn’t stop with the annexation of Crimea in 2014 and didn’t stop with the invasion of Georgia in 2008.

  18. They are gonna need to negotiate a little bit more. If they just push their own story and requirements, the war ain’t gonna stop anytime soon and it’s just going to get worse not only for them…

  19. It’s an unrealistic expectation, unfortunately. Even if Ukraine were to settle all current territorial disputes, there will be individual nations that will hold up their vote for various reasons.

  20. I doubt the will join NATO until the war is over, one way to another.

  21. Ukraine doesn’t really have a choice.

    The only way to get Russia to follow any peace treaty is for there to be an overwhelming force enforcing it. NATO membership is basically the only thing that can do that.

    It isn’t a question of territory or resources or will to keep fighting or anything else. Even if you could justify offering Russia territory in exchange for some sort of ceasefire, doing so would just make everything worse if Russia has not agreed to Ukraine in NATO. There are only two choices: Ukrainian capitulation, or Ukraine able to force Russia to follow a peace treaty.

    That is why all this talk about a ceasefire or peace agreement is basically pointless. Russia has never proposed anything even hinting at Ukraine having NATO protection or equivalent, and with the current Russian government, there never will be. And in fact almost every Russian proposal has included demands of Ukrainian “neutrality” and disarmament in them. The conclusion is extremely obvious: All Russian proposals are merely proposals for Ukrainian surrender, for a weakened Ukraine that cannot resist Russia when Russia inevitably breaks the treaty.

    The first sign that Russia is actually serious about peace talks will be only when Russia is open to Ukraine being in NATO or having an equivalent binding defense agreement that does not require Russian consent to be invoked. Until Russia is offering that, there is nothing to talk about, and in fact talking about what concessions Ukraine should offer just helps Russia. We shouldn’t waste our time on any of that until Russia comes to us with an offer that includes leaving Ukraine in a position where it can enforce the treaty.

  22. Nah, with the way the war’s going, russians are gonna set the terms.

  23. Then Ukraine is shit out of luck because that is simply not going to happen. Russia wouldn’t even accept a ceasefire or peace deal with that in, especially now that they are finally gaining ground. Nor could the NATO accept Ukraine as things stand today.

  24. We agree, generally. But NATO has rules about standards and capability and Ukraine won’t meet them, it didn’t before the war and now there is a war it’s unlikely to come of it meeting them.

  25. And what about EU membership with military precense from European armies to work with and after 20 years NATO if it still exists. The NATO is also a risk depending on US. So I would request EU members to add some skin in the game…

  26. NATO doesnt allow nations into the alliance with current border disputes, especially nations in an active war. So good luck with that.

  28. Nothing stopping each individual country from providing security guarantees and doing it piece meal

  29. good luck getting all other countries to accept a “poisoned” gift like that.

  30. Ukraine cedeing Odessa, Mykolaiv, and Kherson to the US in exchange for NATO membership would be acceptable terms, I guess.

  31. NATO member or nukes. Anything less is just delayed capitulation.

  32. When trying to get a reasonable deal you always demand more than you actually expect to get, otherwise you’ll seem weak and the opposite side is gonna demand more that goes their way.

  37. The only goal of these simpletons is now to start a nuclear war.

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