The middle-income graduates being ‘radicalised’ by the rocketing minimum wage
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/07/how-minimum-wage-obliterated-worth-of-university-degree/
by Fox_9810
The middle-income graduates being ‘radicalised’ by the rocketing minimum wage
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/07/how-minimum-wage-obliterated-worth-of-university-degree/
by Fox_9810
30 comments
Does seem like the rise in minimum wages will destroy university admissions unless grad salaries start increasing
Not exactly wrong, but I don’t think anyone here is dumb or snobbish enough to accept the Telegraph’s framing that the minimum wage is the problem.
Wage compression is a problem because the top is too low, not because the bottom is too high.
t. graduate >50K earner.
Thing is, this has been known for decades – over provision of University degrees started in the 90’s and 00’s. I eschewed Uni in the early 00’s and out earned, and continue to out earn, most of my graduate friends.
Obviously some jobs need a degree, and obviously there is value and benefits in attending Uni but for literally 3 decades too many people have been going to Uni without any real plan, and then being shocked when their random degree from PolyFuckKnows isn’t giving them some huge jump on the career ladder.
Of course, we also have a massive issue with the sheer compression of the UK wage range, but I find myself with very little sympathy for people such as this:
> Sam, who studied law at a Russell Group university and now works in government on £28,000 a year, has similar gripes: “I expected I’d be earning more.”
You have more info available than ever before – one ponders what research they did. What made them think a government job would pay amazingly out of Uni? You studied law – you can earn as much as you like FFS.
As someone on minimum/living wage working as a carer I’d say rocketing wages is a bit of an overstatement…
Incredibly short term thinking.
If you’re a graduate and you’ve got a marketing job and you’re currently earning 28k then yes, you are not earning much more than someone in Asda.
But the reason you went into that job is that working in Asda has a ceiling and you are now on the ladder to jobs that will eventually earn 35, 40, 50k+. Do a decade in marketing and become an executive elsewhere and you could have a really really great career.
This is odd it’s a Telegraph article I agree with.
It’s a piss take that skilled roles that require a ton of higher education aren’t paying, and it’s crushing the salaries towards the bottom as what’s the point, if an entry level scientist role pays the same or less than working at Tesco, while the ceiling is much higher you still have to live and with the increase in minimum wage it’s getting to the point that any fulltime role you’ll be above the threshold of paying student loans back.
Industries need to up their salaries to make it worth while or there is going to be a massive drain on educated labour as people will be looking to go abroad or not bother.
This could be written better but I’m tired as shit.
“rocketing minimum wage” is a bad thing. Of course, Telegraph. Can’t have the poors earning enough that they might actually be able to survive without constantly fearing ruin, can we?
If the middle class are struggling, they should totally look down at the poor as the culprits, rather than up at their own paymasters.
I thought most would be interested in the declining value of their own wages
We have had decades of hollowing out of the middle classes, so that getting a degree and doing a “professional” job doesn’t give you anything like the earning power or prestige any more.
The Telegraph would like you to blame this on the people who are doing even worse than you.
I think the Telegraph would have to acknowledge this. I graduated in 2003. I was earning £25k straight out of uni. The comparable wage is now about £40k. In many cases people simply haven’t kept up with this. So my 20 year old wage is now the minimum wage. Many graduates are still on this wage now.
My wage climbed slowly toward £30k after 5 years and I broke £40k just after I turned 30. Since then I’ve done ok, but I’ve had to move around. There has been no benefit whatsoever for loyalty. My wages stagnated as I remained in the same place for 7 years.
The fact is that the 2010-2024 era has been very bad for living standards in the UK. It’s been a tough time globally a war and global energy transition. China has created a lot of wealth. Lets look at what we could control:
1. Right leaning government pursuing Austerity for much of this time. This never lowered the tax burden and never led to investment.
2. Brexit which has cost enormous amounts of money. The chief architect doesn’t even want to talk about it when directly challenged.
Remind me what the Telegraph has been cheering for all along?
Tale as old as time – blame anyone except those at the top with all the money.
We can’t have high minimum wage and good jobs for grads that make all the time studying and debt from uni worthwhile without productivity growth
The issue is the over-saturation of degrees. That’s entirely the fault of Tony Blair and his 50% [(now 70%) of young people should go to university,](https://amp.theguardian.com/education/2022/apr/18/tony-blair-calls-for-drastic-increase-of-young-people-in-higher-education) despite the job market not having enough positions to absorb them.
So you have a bunch of people with debt who aren’t able to find a job to justify that debt.
Assuming that because this is The Telegraph, they are framing them as being radicalised against poor workers rather than the people who are actually depressing their wages so they can buy another yacht?
Another issue is that there aren’t even enough jobs to go round for the majority and companies have haemorrhaged a lot of jobs with outsourcing
> “I try not to focus on it because of how frustrated I get.” Sam, who studied law at a Russell Group university and now works in government on £28,000 a year, has similar gripes: “I expected I’d be earning more.”
That means Sam must be at an EO (Executive Officer) grade in the Civil Service, a job which has a minimum direct entry requirement of 5 GCSEs – and a job that is pretty much bottom of the ladder.
The issue for Sam is not that jobs that require a law degree from a Russell Group university don’t pay a lot better, but he hasn’t got a job that requires that degree.
Had Sam applied for a Government job that actually required a degree, then with the pension contribution he would be on £70k+.
I’m not being radicalised by minimum wage. I’m being radicalised by an effective 45% tax burden between income tax, national insurance, two student loans and mandatory pension contributions, despite being nowhere near 6 figures. Then add on the skyrocketing cost of rent and everything else…
It baffles me that we keep punching down. Angry about the minimum wage rising, angry about the cost of coffee rising etc.
Angry about those on disability benefits.
Surely we should be angry that our wages are generally so crap, and we should be paid more for what we do?!
I’m in solidarity with my minimum wage peeps. It’s not their fault my middle income is rubbish and you’re not going to trick me into thinking otherwise.
Minimum wage goes up £160 pcm. Rents go up £160 pcm.
It’s such a weird framing to the issue. It’s saying that a graduate on a mediocre wage (which most are on) should be happier with their lot if there are people below them doing even worse…
No reference to them being squeezed from the top down? Best focus on the push from the bottom up…
There is a lot of large corporations and employers who are cracking the whip over efficiencies and savings amongst their staff, but the profit margins are either stable or growing. There is no appetite to actually increase pay for the bulk of the staff who generate the profit, its even worse for companies with shareholders.
We got a ‘good’ payrise a few years ago, and now everytime pay increases are discussed its used as a crutch to beat us with, even though it was well below inflation.
Wow.. so being ‘disenchanted’ with wage compression is what the Telegraph thinks is radicalisation.
Wage compression is a massive problem that the UK politicians just don’t seem willing to address, but needs to be addressed urgently!
If you are going to artificially control any aspect of salary levels, then you should be prepared to manage all aspects of salary levels. Just concentrating on the bottom rung of the ladder has effectively pushed all of the rings together, leaving skilled people, in stressful jobs, wondering why they bother when they can earn almost as much doing a basic job.
I graduated in 2008 – £16k a year in a call centre, then £18k as a recruitment consultant – got sacked (but referenced) from both. My first graduate job came in 2010 as a “business graduate” – literally just making teas and coffees for directors, booking their travel and taking meeting notes for £23k a year. I had a 2:2 in Economics from an middle-table university so I couldn’t complain much. Once my foot was in the door though I jumped around internally, ended up in IT and then my career went from there – six figures seemed like a pipe dream back when I was wearing a headset talking to customers about their energy use. Back then though fees were £3k a year and a low interest rate so that + student loan was paid off quickly. It didn’t feel like a waste of time and money then.
I have two young kids now and my advice to them would always be to not go to university unless they are gunning for a job that actually *needs* a degree – not just “preferred qualifications”, I mean “you legally cannot do this job unless you have it”. At best a degree is just ticking a box on a job spec but comes with a gigantic amount of debt for which interest is now charged like a variable rate mortgage.
Best options are those degree apprenticeships, no debt + experience. Big companies do “school leaver” schemes. Or get an entry level role in a big place, network, mingle – move around internally – build from there. Ambition, high goals and confidence always beats degrees and on-paper grades.
I don’t mind minimum wage going up. The whole point is that anyone working earns enough to buy things they need to survive, and the cost of everything has increased significantly since covid.
The problem is wage stagnation above that. Graduate starting salaries in my world are almost the same as when I started 15 years ago, and even then they hadn’t moved for a few years.
What I will say is that there’s more to a career than your first job. You might be similarly poor as a supermarket till girl at first, but your ceiling is likely to be much higher than in the minimum wage job scenario. If you settled for a doss job at 22 because you weren’t seeing effort pay off at the age of 22 you would probably still be doing minimum wage jobs at 65. If you took a job with a higher ceiling on earnings, you could be retired by 65 living on your own mortgage free house
Software engineers earn around 30-120k here in London. In the US, thats more like 70-400k (USD) We have an issue with skilled workers being under valued.
I have no problem with minimum wage rising. The issue I have is that typical ‘middle earning’ jobs have been suppressed for so long that they are now reaching minimum wage.
Why go for a job with a ton of responsibility (looking after children, safety critical, health, managing large groups of people etc etc) when entry level jobs offer near the same amount
UK wages are low because productivity is low.
UK productivity is low because of low investment.
Investment is low because of high energy prices / tax law.
*The Telegraph invites you to its Crab Bucket Party. RSVP.*
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