Hey community!
Here’s my situation: there were two people living in a 1.5-room apartment (approximately 50 sq. m) and were paying 416 EUR in Nebenkosten monthly pro person (so, 832 eur all together) which included heating, hot water, gas, electricity, insurance and internet. Yesterday, my landlord sent me a document stating that I need to pay an additional 1,723 EUR for 2023.
I am sure we didn’t use that much hot water or heating. My contract includes a clause that states:
Die Nebenkosten werden jährlich einmal durch die Vermieterin abgerechnet. Die Abrechnung erfolgt unverzüglich, sobald der Vermieterin die zur Abrechnung notwendigen Unterlagen vorliegen. Erhöhen sich die Nebenkosten, so ist die Vermieterin berechtigt, diese im Rahmen der gesetzlichen Vorschriften umzulegen und eine entsprechende Erhöhung der Vorauszahlungen zu verlangen.
Are these figures I’m being asked to pay even realistic? And is it legal to demand the entire amount at once?
Sorry if my questions seem silly. I’m not German, and unfortunately, this was my first rental contract. I’d be grateful for any advice!
by Racoonio666
28 comments
I think fixing of any parts of the building should not be paid by you (Sanierung regenleitung Hof).
Edit: operating costs, administrative costs, bank costs, why should you, as a renter, pay those? What’s the difference between operating costs and administrative costs??
~~mhh looks really shit, I would be annoyed too, it’s always worth having utility bills checked / The consumer advice centers in some federal states offer advice and checks of utility bills (~~**~~Die Verbraucherzentralen einiger Bundesländer bieten Beratungen und Prüfungen der Betriebskostenabrechnungen an)~~** ~~, if everything is correct then he can request it, but you can Ask for a division so that you can pay for the whole thing in a few months~~
~~Edit~~
~~I’m also not so sure whether the repair costs can be passed on to the additional costs~~
The costs she is asking for isnt for heating, but for the costs to repair the rain pipes. She claims thar those repairs costed 110.000€, which sounds like complete bs. The splits those costs among all people renting at hers.
I doubt you can ask for the Renovation of a house from renters. Do you have any kind of Legal protection insurance? Are you a member of the Mieterschutzbund? I thibk you should ask for legal advice there.
It is legal to ask for all the money at once, if she is allowed to ask for that money, but I doubt that is the case….
That doesnt seem legit. Especially the 2x 50% “Sonderumlage”. Ask in r/wohnen or r/LegalAdviceGerman
Btw: over 400€/month for nebenkosten is way to much. Search for a mieterverein asap.
It seems like your landlord exchanged some rainpipes. Usually this requires a written information to you but no approval.
And yes he can make you pay for it partially but I‘m not sure if he can do it via the Nebenkostenabrechnung since this is some kind of renovation.
In my opinion the right way to do it would have been to increase the rent by 8% of the cost.
The large amount of costs are for renovations of the rainwater collection system. Not sure why that cost is imposed on you though.
They can’t charge you renovations for the house. That’s line 5a. Heating costs also wild.
Your landlord either doesn’t know how to do Nebenkosten Abrechnung or is purposely trying to milk money.
You can easily send them a message stating what umfähige kosten are, which are costs that can be passed on to the tenant. Nicht umfähige kosten are things that cannot be passed to the tenant.
If you need more clarification I’d be glad to help.
I am not 100% sure, but IMHO this looks wrong.
What you are looking at is an invoice your landlord got from their WEG (Wohneigentümergemeinschaft, simply put, an owners association).
Based on this invoice, your landlord is supposed to create your Nebenkostenabrechnung, but instead of doing this it seems he just passed down his invoice. He can’t do that, because not every item on this list can be passed down to you. One of the big parts (5. and 5.a) for example should not be on your bill, as far as I can tell.
I would recommend looking for a “Mieterhilfeverein” near you (Tenant support association)
I’m no professional, but something doesn’t add up here. As a tenant you’re not responsible for paying for upkeep and renovations. Also they can’t let you pay for the Hausverwaltung either. The only points you’re responsible for are 1a, 1b and 3. This should add up to 3839.74€
Also NK of 832€ per month seems crazy high for a 1.5 room apartment.
[deleted]
Since some people are writing it wrong here and you haven’t quite understood it either.
The letter is from the property management/owners’ meeting to your landlord. This is about payments that he has to make for the house as the owner of the condominium.
Apart from the chimney sweep costs(Schornsteinfeger), he has to pay everything out of his own pocket and you don’t have to pay anything. What you see here is not a utility bill for gas and water, for example.
Don’t pay anything and complain to the landlord.
Edit.: The Nebenkostenabrechnung must be submitted within one year for an additional payment to be made. Your landlord will not have made one yet and will try to do so now. Wait a little longer, then complain and if it’s too late, you won’t have to pay anything in arrears. The landlord still has to make repayments if the conditions are too high.
Your landlord actually forwarded his yearly bill that he got from the property manager. That’s no proper Nebenkostenabrechnung.
These include several things, that have to be paid by the owner of the flat, not the tenant.
As a tenant you have to pay for all consumption based costs like water, heating and electricity, waste disposal, property taxes and public costs, and running costs of maintenance and upkeep.
This does not include the costs for the property manager, repairs and the upkeep savings.
So things that you don’t need to pay are Bankkosten, Verwaltungskosten, Sanierung Regenleitung Hof and Zuführung Erhaltungszulage.
What’s missing are the property taxes (which he gets directly from the municipality).
So basically ask your landlord for a proper Nebenkostenabrechnung, as this is not your bill to pay. It is merely information regarding certain costs that you might have to pay. Also regarding heating and water there should be a detailed bill listing the exact consumption and meter readings.
Please post this also on r/wohnen
He is not allowed to claim 4.0 Verwaltungskosten
On the top it says in the header this is a “Einzelabrechnung für die Eigentumswohnung”. So this is not the invoice your landlord gives to you (and you have to pay), but an invoice your landlord (owner of a flat) got from the Hausverwaltung.
(Like there are multiple flats in a house owned by different people. Now if something has to be repaired all the flat owners have to pay their part. That’s the calculation for that, not the calculation for the tenants.)
Why have you gotten that?
* Maybe your landlord included this in the Nebenkostenabrechnung as proof of some expenditure that will be part of your Nebenkostenabrechnung.
* Maybe the landlord included this by mistake.
* Maybe you are the landlords only and first tenent and he doesn’t have a clue?
* Of course there the possibility he wants to scam you, but that’s not the most likely possibility.
It is not a Betriebskostenabrechnung but a Hausgeldabrechnung. Don”t do anything.
So the 416€ nebenkosten is on top of your regular rent? And it’s per person so you’re paying over 800€ nebenkosten for a 50sqm flat!? That’s an outrageously high amount. For a flat that size I wouldn’t expect more than 200€ total, and even that I would consider quite high. You’ve been targeted because you’re new to Germany and you’re being ripped off. There is absolutely no way that you should be paying that much, and that it wouldn’t be enough to cover all the utilities. It is illegal for a landlord to profit from a nebenkosten. There’s something shady going on here where they’re inflating the nebenkosten rate. You need to speak to a lawyer
Tenants do not pay for renovations, there may be a rental price increase in the future but only by the amount permitted in your contract.
Your landlord either made a huge mistake or is trying to scam you. You need legal aid through the Mieterschutzbund or a Rechtsschutzversicherung *immediately*.
110.000 für eine Regenrinne. Ist die aus Gold und mit Diamanten verziert?
Along with the other good advice in this thread, you could consider talking to your neighbours in the building if they have the same landlord. First of all they need to know that the landlord is trying to rip you off here, and secondly you could maybe combine costs in a joint legal effort. If you win in court you can also make the landlord pay your legal fees. I’m fairly certain that a joint approach from all of you informing the landlord that you know your rights will be enough to make them back down though.
Like I said previously, 800€ nebenkosten for a 50sqm apartment is insane, even if it includes power and internet. Under German law they’re not allowed to make a profit on nebenkosten. You need a bill with all the actual costs you are liable for (which doesn’t include repair costs like others have said), along with the correct total for how much you have paid them. If you have paid them more than that (which you definitely have with 800€ nebenkosten per month) then they need to pay you back the excess. They also need to provide proof of every bill. They can’t just say “your nebenkosten is x€”. If you ask for proof of the costs they list then they have to provide it. I personally would check these bills with the companies because I don’t trust your landlord at all and I’m fairly certain they’re ripping you off and aren’t above doctoring the bills.
I’ve been in Germany for 8 years and have lived in several apartments in the 50-80sqm range in several expensive cities including Munich, and during that time I don’t think I’ve ever seen an apartment that size with nebenkosten above 300€ let alone 800€. That’s an absolutely insane amount.
Why tf costs a Regenleitung 110k ?
As most people say – you do not have to pay it. It contains items which she/he is not allow to bill to you (nicht umlagefähig). Are you sure, the 800 you are paying is rent plus Nebenkosten. If the 800,. Are just Nebenkosten, request a reduction of the pre=payment. You just have to pay 1. and 3. Has she/he just sent the above or a letter?
Bank charges, property management costs and repair costs (refurbishment costs) may not be passed on to tenants.
The tenant may increase the rent by a maximum of 8% per year for the refurbishment.
As others already pointed out, your landlord just passed his bill to you.
What makes me shriek the most is this:
You stated you pay 832 bucks Nebenkosten (which is already outrageous imo).
This would make 12*832 = 9984,-€ / year
If you look under V., you see that your landlord only paid 2856,07 €
So you would pay 7127.93€ for gas, insurance, internet and electricity, which i find to be pretty steep.( Roughly 594€ / month)
Hi OP, as multiple people mentioned below, this is not a real Nebenkostenabrechnung and you should refuse payment till a proper one is presented. Btw, to stand in court, a Nebenkostenabrechnung needs to have a certain format, making it understandable for the tenant, which this document definitely does not comply with. If I were you, I would notify your landlord in writing, that this does not fullfill the legal requirements of a Nebenkostenabrechnung and ask for a modified document. Then depending on what the landlord sends, you probably will need to contact a lawyer. Good luck!
Landlord here, echoing what others have already said. This is the statement your landlord got from the building management. Some of the line items are definitely not payable by you as the tenant.
Specifically: 1. Betriebskosten (operating costs) – I’d ask what’s included here as it’s unclear.
2. Banking – this is not paybable by the tenant.
3. Cost of heating and water – this mentions a statement from A+S GmbH, I’d ask to see that.
4. Cost of management – not payable by the tenant
5. Cost of upkeep – not payable by the tenant
5a. Rainwater pipes reconstruction – not payable by the tenant
6. Other costs – I’d ask what’s covered by this, might not be payable by the tenant.
By my calculation, the total for you is at most 3,856.03 – minus what you paid monthly (which is outrageously high), so your landlord owes you 6,127,97 or more.
Definitely see a Mieterverein, it’s well worth the 80 or so Euros per year.
But even what you pay seems a bit off, I hope this is a writing error, you aren’t paying 832 NK every month together? What’s the rent on top of it?
I live in a flat with 116m² and we pay around 350 euro for 2,5 people and that’s already expensive.
According to german law you can even simply ignore this letter, because it’s not a proper “Nebenkostenabrechnung” But to keep the peace between the landlord and you, tell him, that’s not a Nebenkostenabrechnung and he shall create a proper one.
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