It’s worth noting that Telegraph readers in the UK have enduring fond memories of military service that they themselves didn’t do (as it ceased in 1960) and see it as a panacea for all sorts of social ills.
I believe Switzerland has a “standing army”. Between 18 and 60 you do 2 weeks service a year after training.
Sure, Germany should have a bigger army. That’s never caused any problems before.
Need a fascist military state to fight another fascist military state. The important thing is to scream democracy and freedom while doing so.
Could instill a sense of “esprit de corps” on a national level
I did my time in the German Bundeswehr and let me tell you: conscription does not improve motivation, it is quite the opposite, none of us were willing to fight and I assume it would be the same today.
Germany doesn’t need conscription. Conscription in the modern era is for states under existential threat, like Israel or South Korea, or for states desperate to have an over-sized military, like Russia. The US fields the world’s most capable military on an entirely volunteer basis and major European NATO members with credible military capabilities like France also do just fine with an all-volunteer army.
O ffs, no it wouldn’t. Armed forces are a cesspit of macho culture and covering up for each other when it comes to (sexual) assault of soldiers not deemed to be in the in-group. Conscription is a last resort, not a blessing.
Doesn’t seem to be doing the Russians much good.
Sure. Underpaid workers that waste a year of their life. Old fucks don’t care about the younger generations so for sure they favour conscription.
I am in favor of conscription.
Nevertheless nobody should be forced into the military.
That‘s why we always had alternatives available like civilian service (working for charitable institutions mostly) or a voluntarily commitment to participate in civil protection for a period of time.
Nowadays I would make it mandatory for every gender, offering alternatives besides the military service like stated before: working for charitable institutions, non-profitable or environmental associations, civil protection, fire department or Federal Agency for Technical Relief.
Our country offers us so much, from basic democratic rights up to a lot of social security, cheap education, etc. and as we see now this is nothing we should all take for granted.
Democracy has also been under attack from the inside over the last few years due to all kinds of political extremism.
We should be able to give back at least a little bit of our time for this country.
Maybe it would help young people understand that you sometimes have to give something back and that a country like the German Federal Republic is worth it!
I also know that it‘s a German problem not really identifying with the country (except for when it‘s the football world championship), so yeah, I don‘t expect a lot of young German people to agree…
I did military service and it takes 1 or 2 years out of your life, getting back is complex. I have no problem with pro military or in times of war. But obligatory service: no
No we don’t
As long as the recognize the right to bear arms.
Ok but make it equal. Either both genders are conscripted or no one is.
Not this german. All it does is literally waste your time for a couple of months. You’re not any more combat ready than any random person you’ve picked off the streets after basic military training and fermenting a bit in the months after.
We already have conscription in case of an attack on Germany (as unlikely as it is in the current geopolitical climate), during peace time it’s just a big exercise in unproductive masturbation.
>‘do real good’ for society
A.K.A the government wants to steal year(s) from the young people so the old fucks that were born in Prussia can get a hard on.
No. And if, only if EVERY gender has to serve. not only men.
The only people that want conscription are the ones that don’t have to do it anymore.
If you want more soldiers, maybe make it more attractive? Pay them better. Sure, conscription is cheaper. Cotton was also cheaper before 1860.
Did 13 months in finnish army – didnt feel that i ”lost” ot someone ”stole” a year from me. Got really fit, learned how to defend and fight and made quite a few really close friends that i still keep in touch today. Different for Finland i quess but without men willing to defend this country, we would be speaking russian and finnish culture would have been snuffed out.
Doesn’t have to be military service.
Bad idea, a country like Germany that could have an excellent professional army…
Lol it’s the telegraph fuck off
How about no.
I am an estonian and with the number of people we have(1.3 million) conscription is necessary if you have Russia on your borders as we don’t have nearly as many people needed to man an all voluntary professional army. I did 8 months of service and became a corporal in that time we also have 11 months of service to become a junior NCO or a driver, while most of the time it was boring and there was a lot of time just doing nothing I understand the necessity of the conscription. If it was even more compacted and every weekend was off I can say you learn a lot in that time as it is very repetitive and trains your muscle memory and reacting to certain situations.
In Germany with the amount of people you have I think all voluntary army is viable and if needs be, the reserve personel could be trained during war time from those willing to fight.
My uncle did 2 years in soviet army airborne and my grandfather did 3 years in soviet airforce as a truck driver the latter said that during his tenure he could shoot only 1 or 2 shots from the rifle and the condition was horrible in his unit. So you could say if you force people into a long useless service far away from home with little to no vacations you can see that the morale of the troops is not going to help you win anything.
Article is paywalled for me.
Achieve
nobody wants it,not even the military. misleading title.
As a finnish citizen who has done the required military service I say to Germany: Don’t do it.
Sure, for some people mandatory military service can be beneficial. For the majority it’s not. Dicking around for half a year doing the absolute bare minimum and forgetting pretty much everything you learned as soon as it’s over is the reality for most conscripts. For most people, it just wastes a year of an important time in a young person’s life. For finland, conscription is a necessary evil as we can simply not afford a sizeable professional army, and we need a sizeable army for deterrance. Germany is not in the same position.
Any notion of the military “making a man out of you” is simply old misogynistic bullshit.
Just another form of youth bashing.
“They’re all lazy layabouts with their fortnites and tiktoks and their whinging about house prices some good ol’ military bootcamp will whip ’em into shape”
etc etc
People who are in favor of conscription say that it makes men out of boys and teaches you discipline and respect for the rules.
It’s funny because (at least in my country) people who celebrate conscription claiming they’ve learned so much from it are entitled lazy-ass boomers with a fat belly who believe every bullshit they read on Facebook and don’t have any problem in breaking basic laws if they can get away with it.
I mean, I didn’t serve a single day in military training, if they want to make it mandatory at least be clear and say that you need more soldiers (and in some cases flesh shields) because you’re afraid of foreign invasion, don’t sugarcoat it with platitudes like ‘it’s beneficial to society’.
– Politics: Here are 100 billion!
– Military: That’s great, we can buy so much desperately needed equipment with it!
– Politics: How about conscription?
– Military: *left the chat*
Unless you are in a big war and just need as much meat as possible, conscription is not just useless but harmful.
Conscription damages economy by taking out young people out of it.
It breeds corruption and abuse. It damages psyche of people, makes them more conformist and ready to follow orders.
It’s just unconstitutional, because it’s basically a forced servitude.
Aren’t recent developments showing that this is not necessary? Russian army is pretty much worthless outside of Russia against organized defense.
Europe is safe with professional armies it has.
Old, lazy people want that.
The only positive outcome from this is that it could bring the alternative “Zivildienst” back, which is the equal amount of time, helping out with social like in hospitals, elderly care etc.
what Germans?
That’s insane.
They want to be the most powerful military in Europe and now conscription? Someone stop them!
39 comments
It’s worth noting that Telegraph readers in the UK have enduring fond memories of military service that they themselves didn’t do (as it ceased in 1960) and see it as a panacea for all sorts of social ills.
I believe Switzerland has a “standing army”. Between 18 and 60 you do 2 weeks service a year after training.
Sure, Germany should have a bigger army. That’s never caused any problems before.
Need a fascist military state to fight another fascist military state. The important thing is to scream democracy and freedom while doing so.
Could instill a sense of “esprit de corps” on a national level
I did my time in the German Bundeswehr and let me tell you: conscription does not improve motivation, it is quite the opposite, none of us were willing to fight and I assume it would be the same today.
Germany doesn’t need conscription. Conscription in the modern era is for states under existential threat, like Israel or South Korea, or for states desperate to have an over-sized military, like Russia. The US fields the world’s most capable military on an entirely volunteer basis and major European NATO members with credible military capabilities like France also do just fine with an all-volunteer army.
O ffs, no it wouldn’t. Armed forces are a cesspit of macho culture and covering up for each other when it comes to (sexual) assault of soldiers not deemed to be in the in-group. Conscription is a last resort, not a blessing.
Doesn’t seem to be doing the Russians much good.
Sure. Underpaid workers that waste a year of their life. Old fucks don’t care about the younger generations so for sure they favour conscription.
I am in favor of conscription.
Nevertheless nobody should be forced into the military.
That‘s why we always had alternatives available like civilian service (working for charitable institutions mostly) or a voluntarily commitment to participate in civil protection for a period of time.
Nowadays I would make it mandatory for every gender, offering alternatives besides the military service like stated before: working for charitable institutions, non-profitable or environmental associations, civil protection, fire department or Federal Agency for Technical Relief.
Our country offers us so much, from basic democratic rights up to a lot of social security, cheap education, etc. and as we see now this is nothing we should all take for granted.
Democracy has also been under attack from the inside over the last few years due to all kinds of political extremism.
We should be able to give back at least a little bit of our time for this country.
Maybe it would help young people understand that you sometimes have to give something back and that a country like the German Federal Republic is worth it!
I also know that it‘s a German problem not really identifying with the country (except for when it‘s the football world championship), so yeah, I don‘t expect a lot of young German people to agree…
I did military service and it takes 1 or 2 years out of your life, getting back is complex. I have no problem with pro military or in times of war. But obligatory service: no
No we don’t
As long as the recognize the right to bear arms.
Ok but make it equal. Either both genders are conscripted or no one is.
Not this german. All it does is literally waste your time for a couple of months. You’re not any more combat ready than any random person you’ve picked off the streets after basic military training and fermenting a bit in the months after.
We already have conscription in case of an attack on Germany (as unlikely as it is in the current geopolitical climate), during peace time it’s just a big exercise in unproductive masturbation.
>‘do real good’ for society
A.K.A the government wants to steal year(s) from the young people so the old fucks that were born in Prussia can get a hard on.
No. And if, only if EVERY gender has to serve. not only men.
The only people that want conscription are the ones that don’t have to do it anymore.
If you want more soldiers, maybe make it more attractive? Pay them better. Sure, conscription is cheaper. Cotton was also cheaper before 1860.
Did 13 months in finnish army – didnt feel that i ”lost” ot someone ”stole” a year from me. Got really fit, learned how to defend and fight and made quite a few really close friends that i still keep in touch today. Different for Finland i quess but without men willing to defend this country, we would be speaking russian and finnish culture would have been snuffed out.
Doesn’t have to be military service.
Bad idea, a country like Germany that could have an excellent professional army…
Lol it’s the telegraph fuck off
How about no.
I am an estonian and with the number of people we have(1.3 million) conscription is necessary if you have Russia on your borders as we don’t have nearly as many people needed to man an all voluntary professional army. I did 8 months of service and became a corporal in that time we also have 11 months of service to become a junior NCO or a driver, while most of the time it was boring and there was a lot of time just doing nothing I understand the necessity of the conscription. If it was even more compacted and every weekend was off I can say you learn a lot in that time as it is very repetitive and trains your muscle memory and reacting to certain situations.
In Germany with the amount of people you have I think all voluntary army is viable and if needs be, the reserve personel could be trained during war time from those willing to fight.
My uncle did 2 years in soviet army airborne and my grandfather did 3 years in soviet airforce as a truck driver the latter said that during his tenure he could shoot only 1 or 2 shots from the rifle and the condition was horrible in his unit. So you could say if you force people into a long useless service far away from home with little to no vacations you can see that the morale of the troops is not going to help you win anything.
Article is paywalled for me.
Achieve
nobody wants it,not even the military. misleading title.
As a finnish citizen who has done the required military service I say to Germany: Don’t do it.
Sure, for some people mandatory military service can be beneficial. For the majority it’s not. Dicking around for half a year doing the absolute bare minimum and forgetting pretty much everything you learned as soon as it’s over is the reality for most conscripts. For most people, it just wastes a year of an important time in a young person’s life. For finland, conscription is a necessary evil as we can simply not afford a sizeable professional army, and we need a sizeable army for deterrance. Germany is not in the same position.
Any notion of the military “making a man out of you” is simply old misogynistic bullshit.
Just another form of youth bashing.
“They’re all lazy layabouts with their fortnites and tiktoks and their whinging about house prices some good ol’ military bootcamp will whip ’em into shape”
etc etc
People who are in favor of conscription say that it makes men out of boys and teaches you discipline and respect for the rules.
It’s funny because (at least in my country) people who celebrate conscription claiming they’ve learned so much from it are entitled lazy-ass boomers with a fat belly who believe every bullshit they read on Facebook and don’t have any problem in breaking basic laws if they can get away with it.
I mean, I didn’t serve a single day in military training, if they want to make it mandatory at least be clear and say that you need more soldiers (and in some cases flesh shields) because you’re afraid of foreign invasion, don’t sugarcoat it with platitudes like ‘it’s beneficial to society’.
– Politics: Here are 100 billion!
– Military: That’s great, we can buy so much desperately needed equipment with it!
– Politics: How about conscription?
– Military: *left the chat*
Unless you are in a big war and just need as much meat as possible, conscription is not just useless but harmful.
Conscription damages economy by taking out young people out of it.
It breeds corruption and abuse. It damages psyche of people, makes them more conformist and ready to follow orders.
It’s just unconstitutional, because it’s basically a forced servitude.
Aren’t recent developments showing that this is not necessary? Russian army is pretty much worthless outside of Russia against organized defense.
Europe is safe with professional armies it has.
Old, lazy people want that.
The only positive outcome from this is that it could bring the alternative “Zivildienst” back, which is the equal amount of time, helping out with social like in hospitals, elderly care etc.
what Germans?
That’s insane.
They want to be the most powerful military in Europe and now conscription? Someone stop them!