Isnt the problem more right wing? Who funded the DUP brexit campaign?
Hm. Not perfect, but a definite improvement on some of the things I’ve seen over the last few weeks.
Lots of other European left parties and groups have managed to be much more clear-eyed on this conflict. The left in the UK – and the US, from what I’ve seen of it at least – struggles with that more, and it’s unnecessary.
They do. the issue is the media keeps reporting like the cranks in stop the war are the spokespeople of the entire left political spectrum.
Meanwhile, in an obvious case of double standards people like trump or farage praising Putin is held up as “just some oddballls making dumb points about Putin”
The right is the corrupt lot taking russian money for years, and suddenly were to criticise the left?!?
That’s what happens when the MSM are in on the scam too I guess.
Doesn’t help that Labour leadership are equally to blame for their partisan shenanigans under the guise of UK nationalism.
The left as far as I can see are generally anti imperialism, that goes for Iraq/Afghanistan wars which were fought under false pretences. Add Russian aggression towards Ukraine to that list. Putin is a dictator and the left oppose those anti democratic sensibilities.
The right like Putin because he aligns with their socially right religious hardline stances and well… the right do seem to like the dark money too..
Perhaps some of the conflict on the left on the Ukraine crisis is that of previous loose support of far right wing factions. It’s a confused mess but I think it’s clear the world is now anti-Putin aggression.
Stop the War Coalition
The most blantant case of false advertising since my suit against the film the Neverending Story
I got banned from a UK Left subreddit and the mods instantly muted me for asking why I’d been banned.
All I’d said was that Putin needed to be stopped and that NATO wasn’t to blame for Ukrainian deaths.
I’m about as far left as you get without reaching communism/anarchism, and I’m confused at why so many articles are popping up with this kind of tone. Have public figures on the left of the spectrum been supporting Russia?
Hopefully in future we stop giving countries the impression they can do what they want by only imposing weak sanctions and statements about how we aren’t happy with them which has been happening for quite a few years now.
If we had properly financially crippled them through sanctions in the past then Putin wouldn’t have thought he could get away with this.
The right and left must both stand together. Think of brave Poland resisting Hitler seemingly in vain but at least they inspired world defiance.
We lived through this division of opinion in 1938 with appeasement but by 1939 everyone agreed
We are it’s the right that is living on russian money
All they can do is send vibes and money. Peace at all costs. When someone declares war and invades, the only road to peace is surrender. The left in the west has been able to live in a sort of daydream for some time now, reality kept at bay. Now reality is banging on the door and they don’t know what to do. Talking about what upsets you won’t stop bombs
It’s not a Left or Right thing. Think that is completely missing the point. Everyone should be united
This isn’t at left or right wing thing, it’s a do you have brain cells thing
Problem is, the Greens and left wing factions of Labour are blaming this on NATO’s “aggressive eastward expansion.”
That’s how you make yourself look like a Putin sympathiser.
NATO are there to prevent this shit from happening.
They seem to have ignored that the ‘limited’ war in Donbass was politically solved but Ukraine decided to continue it and ignore the self determination of Donbass entirely. They also seem to note that Ukraine is basically just an oligarchy – but then go on about it’s ‘sovereignty’.
What is ideal that each and every state is a democracy in which the working class has political agency and isn’t bombarded with misinformation and propaganda to influence them in a particular direction. Each of these states should co-operate with each other to provide mutual security and economic benefit.
Unfortunately, we live in a capitalist world and as such our countries are going to be dominated by oligarchs that use our nations as means to steal and profit. I don’t see these countries as being better or worse because Russia’s doing the stealing. The Ukrainian invasion is a product of these issues – a result of either opportunism, ideology or simple callousness.
The left is though?
Some slight criticisms of NATO isn’t ‘not standing against putin’. It’s entirely possible to think Putin is evil and to think NATO didn’t play it well with Ukraine. If you can’t criticise the things you believe in, you’re not serving them well.
Sure youve got a tiny minority of tankies…but there’s nothing you can do about the crazys.
Ultimately the left is entirely unified against Putin, the only point of debate is whether NATO has let Ukraine down or not. Which I think the history books will rationally decide that it has, even if just to a small degree.
Left or right? Why are you making this polarised before an answer can be given. How about everyone?
There’s no nuance here. We’re on the edge of WW3, there shouldn’t be a left and right view on this
I do. Putin’s actions are deplorable and this cannot be allowed to continue.
I am however someone who thinks “know thy enemy” is important. Which means I want to know more about the history of Russia, Ukraine, NATO etc to get a more informed view. I’ve been learning but it’s not really enough and I have to accept that there are things that I don’t and can’t know. I’d been going hard on learning about WWI and WWII over the past year and regret not spending a little more time on Ukraine & Russia in modern times before this happened.
I will say though, the world is not black and white. My beliefs are to still take everything with a pinch of salt. The US does not have a good track record with going into war in recent years, nor does the UK. I am also sceptical about how our media will report things, I am also concerned about the Russian money in the UK and whether that’s hampering our response.
tl;dr: I am against the war but don’t want to go in blindly and I also admit my knowledge is lacking.
Problem is many on the left in UK are so used to going on about American imperialism, and they (we) have forgotten that imperialism is not limited to America.
The war on Ukraine is blatant and obvious russian state imperialism.
Humans, being creatures of habit, find it hard to shift viewpoints though, plus some sort of cultish nostalgia about the USSR is an issue
gee thanks guys, so glad we agree on this after seeing hundreds of people on this site who spend hours arguing about gender
Anyone with any decency should stand against Putin’s war.
Totally agree the left should stand up against aggression not making excuses
Most of us are against Putin’s war, though. It’s a stupid minority of us who don’t realise that Russia’s so-called anti-imperialism is just it’s own self-convenient brand of imperialism.
What I absolutely can’t stand by, is that being rightfully sceptical of NATO somehow makes us pro-Putin. That’s just straight up smearing.
I’m left wing and completely against Russia. Trumps right wing and repeatedly praises Russia. Farage blamed Nato and he’s right wing. This isn’t a left vs right argument. This is just vies of different people accross all political spectrums. Not every opinion is exclusive to either left or right.
26 comments
Isnt the problem more right wing? Who funded the DUP brexit campaign?
Hm. Not perfect, but a definite improvement on some of the things I’ve seen over the last few weeks.
Lots of other European left parties and groups have managed to be much more clear-eyed on this conflict. The left in the UK – and the US, from what I’ve seen of it at least – struggles with that more, and it’s unnecessary.
They do. the issue is the media keeps reporting like the cranks in stop the war are the spokespeople of the entire left political spectrum.
Meanwhile, in an obvious case of double standards people like trump or farage praising Putin is held up as “just some oddballls making dumb points about Putin”
The right is the corrupt lot taking russian money for years, and suddenly were to criticise the left?!?
That’s what happens when the MSM are in on the scam too I guess.
Doesn’t help that Labour leadership are equally to blame for their partisan shenanigans under the guise of UK nationalism.
The left as far as I can see are generally anti imperialism, that goes for Iraq/Afghanistan wars which were fought under false pretences. Add Russian aggression towards Ukraine to that list. Putin is a dictator and the left oppose those anti democratic sensibilities.
The right like Putin because he aligns with their socially right religious hardline stances and well… the right do seem to like the dark money too..
Perhaps some of the conflict on the left on the Ukraine crisis is that of previous loose support of far right wing factions. It’s a confused mess but I think it’s clear the world is now anti-Putin aggression.
Stop the War Coalition
The most blantant case of false advertising since my suit against the film the Neverending Story
I got banned from a UK Left subreddit and the mods instantly muted me for asking why I’d been banned.
All I’d said was that Putin needed to be stopped and that NATO wasn’t to blame for Ukrainian deaths.
I’m about as far left as you get without reaching communism/anarchism, and I’m confused at why so many articles are popping up with this kind of tone. Have public figures on the left of the spectrum been supporting Russia?
Hopefully in future we stop giving countries the impression they can do what they want by only imposing weak sanctions and statements about how we aren’t happy with them which has been happening for quite a few years now.
If we had properly financially crippled them through sanctions in the past then Putin wouldn’t have thought he could get away with this.
The right and left must both stand together. Think of brave Poland resisting Hitler seemingly in vain but at least they inspired world defiance.
We lived through this division of opinion in 1938 with appeasement but by 1939 everyone agreed
We are it’s the right that is living on russian money
All they can do is send vibes and money. Peace at all costs. When someone declares war and invades, the only road to peace is surrender. The left in the west has been able to live in a sort of daydream for some time now, reality kept at bay. Now reality is banging on the door and they don’t know what to do. Talking about what upsets you won’t stop bombs
It’s not a Left or Right thing. Think that is completely missing the point. Everyone should be united
This isn’t at left or right wing thing, it’s a do you have brain cells thing
Problem is, the Greens and left wing factions of Labour are blaming this on NATO’s “aggressive eastward expansion.”
That’s how you make yourself look like a Putin sympathiser.
NATO are there to prevent this shit from happening.
They seem to have ignored that the ‘limited’ war in Donbass was politically solved but Ukraine decided to continue it and ignore the self determination of Donbass entirely. They also seem to note that Ukraine is basically just an oligarchy – but then go on about it’s ‘sovereignty’.
What is ideal that each and every state is a democracy in which the working class has political agency and isn’t bombarded with misinformation and propaganda to influence them in a particular direction. Each of these states should co-operate with each other to provide mutual security and economic benefit.
Unfortunately, we live in a capitalist world and as such our countries are going to be dominated by oligarchs that use our nations as means to steal and profit. I don’t see these countries as being better or worse because Russia’s doing the stealing. The Ukrainian invasion is a product of these issues – a result of either opportunism, ideology or simple callousness.
The left is though?
Some slight criticisms of NATO isn’t ‘not standing against putin’. It’s entirely possible to think Putin is evil and to think NATO didn’t play it well with Ukraine. If you can’t criticise the things you believe in, you’re not serving them well.
Sure youve got a tiny minority of tankies…but there’s nothing you can do about the crazys.
Ultimately the left is entirely unified against Putin, the only point of debate is whether NATO has let Ukraine down or not. Which I think the history books will rationally decide that it has, even if just to a small degree.
Left or right? Why are you making this polarised before an answer can be given. How about everyone?
There’s no nuance here. We’re on the edge of WW3, there shouldn’t be a left and right view on this
I do. Putin’s actions are deplorable and this cannot be allowed to continue.
I am however someone who thinks “know thy enemy” is important. Which means I want to know more about the history of Russia, Ukraine, NATO etc to get a more informed view. I’ve been learning but it’s not really enough and I have to accept that there are things that I don’t and can’t know. I’d been going hard on learning about WWI and WWII over the past year and regret not spending a little more time on Ukraine & Russia in modern times before this happened.
I will say though, the world is not black and white. My beliefs are to still take everything with a pinch of salt. The US does not have a good track record with going into war in recent years, nor does the UK. I am also sceptical about how our media will report things, I am also concerned about the Russian money in the UK and whether that’s hampering our response.
tl;dr: I am against the war but don’t want to go in blindly and I also admit my knowledge is lacking.
Problem is many on the left in UK are so used to going on about American imperialism, and they (we) have forgotten that imperialism is not limited to America.
The war on Ukraine is blatant and obvious russian state imperialism.
Humans, being creatures of habit, find it hard to shift viewpoints though, plus some sort of cultish nostalgia about the USSR is an issue
gee thanks guys, so glad we agree on this after seeing hundreds of people on this site who spend hours arguing about gender
Anyone with any decency should stand against Putin’s war.
Totally agree the left should stand up against aggression not making excuses
Most of us are against Putin’s war, though. It’s a stupid minority of us who don’t realise that Russia’s so-called anti-imperialism is just it’s own self-convenient brand of imperialism.
What I absolutely can’t stand by, is that being rightfully sceptical of NATO somehow makes us pro-Putin. That’s just straight up smearing.
I’m left wing and completely against Russia. Trumps right wing and repeatedly praises Russia. Farage blamed Nato and he’s right wing. This isn’t a left vs right argument. This is just vies of different people accross all political spectrums. Not every opinion is exclusive to either left or right.