It’s interesting to see the former PM Alexander Stubb who has a different thought.
Many people signed the petition.
If you didn’t buy insurance before the fire, and you don’t buy it during the fire, when are you gonna buy the insurance?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBns9DAXChw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBns9DAXChw)
Edit 2: [Supporters in Helsinki are upset](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oILqpRmvN8w) 🥺
22 comments
What if it can be worked out that there won’t ever be fire ?
Well this donkeytooth sold our electricity networks, sooo idgaf about what he thinks
There is literally a scene in The Big Short where the guy who is predicting the 2008 mortgage crisis is pitching his findings to an investment firm by saying “your house is on fire and I’m offering you fire insurance!”
Edit: [Found the clip.](https://youtu.be/xbiDrzTd8fE)
He’s right though. We can’t join NOW as in this next week or the very near future. And the decision shouldn’t be made in panic. Everybody (disregarding some reddit foreign policy experts) agrees with this.
He’s saying that we should start preparations to join though. In practice that means at least voting in the parliament to accept that we’re sending an application to join NATO, then probably coordinating with NATO countries that the application also gets accepted, and most likely coordinating with Sweden as well. Even if we want to join quickly, it will take months. Also we need a plan how to deal with the period after deciding to apply for membership and before becoming a member. Probably we will see some negative actions from Russia then.
In the meantime, a former PM in Japan is trying to get nukes to protect themselves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slzEGazNvFc
The best time to do this was before, so the next best opportunity is now
>invade other country
>take their clay
>they fight back
>you shell ’em
>then you offer peace talk if they agree with having their clay stolen
Lol
Lmao
Remember Karelia?
What is the biggest con if we join NATO, only to find out that Russia is a threat to us no more? I haven’t really found an answer to that. We might be paying a bit more in military expenditure, but that would be equivalent of two or three tanks per year? Are there any other cons?
Right now we are seen as an economical risks. There are three non-NATO countries next to Russia in Europe; Ukraine, Belarus and Finland. People are already canceling their trips to Finland, stock market is dipping. We just aren’t safe investment environment right now, if you’re asking people outside Finland.
In my opinion, joining NATO would be very smart move to do even if there wouldn’t be a threat such as Russia. We would have so much more saying in yet another global organisation, we could get so much better intelligence information, and we would have article 5 backing our sovereignty. What’s not to like?
Suppose Finland is invaded tomorrow.
If NATO gets involved, which is basically the west, the result is mutually assured destruction.
If NATO doesn’t get involved, the result is the destruction of Finland.
Joining NATO is not saving us from Russia because of some mighty force that will stop them, it’s simply because it ensures mutually assured destruction, and Russia may not want that.
The question is, if the time comes, will countries like France and USA really sacrifice their cities for the sake of Finland?… Because let’s be real, a war between NATO and Russia would escalate until they bring the nukes.
Ukraine would have never been conquered if Russia didn’t had had nukes.
When a madman like Putin has nukes, the result is a feeble peace that is determined by the concept of mutually assured destruction. That’s all NATO is regarding Russia,
So we either join NATO or get a fucking Nuke and point it to Moscow. I hate this world.
A lot of this discussion can be compared to an old anecdote about repairing a leaky roof. No point in repairing it when it’s sunny, don’t want to repair it when it rains because the weather is disagreeable for outside work. In both cases, the circumstances dictate actions. This can be seen in the NATO discussions a lot. Without stating an opinion for or against, I think it’s not the optimal way of having the discussion if everyone is making decisions based on outside influences only. The discussion should start from the nation’s overall defense strategy and long term goals.
Well then they are obviously insane. How on earth did they become leaders of their respective countries?
He is right.
If Finland joins now… and, say, Hungary fucks up, and accidentally downs a russian plane…
A conflict ensues… where Russia understands it has no resources to fight NATO… so, what it does?
Hungary fucks up, but NEWLY JOINED Finland gets Helsinki and Turku nuclear-struck… for nothing… just for the fact of joining, minus 1,5 million population.
If Finland wants to join NATO, then it must be done AFTER the war in Ukraine is over, not during the heat of it… This is pretty dumb to be honest. And media with its hysteria does not really make any sense.
Finnish people are quite easy to manipulate. Yes, sure, everyone is afraid.
Thinking logically, NATO WILL prevent russian tanks coming to Finland.But NATO WILL ALSO FACILITATE 5 MILLION FINNS BURNING IN NUCLEAR FIRE.
Nice tradeoff…”But, muh tanks, stupid Ryssa, tanks not coming here! NATO defends!”
Idk idk… Everyone signing up for NATO should realize the possibility of losing 2+ million of innocent men, women, and children in a nuclear strike.
TBH the best solution for Finland would be to have its own nukes and stay away from NATO.
This way, we guarantee that Putin does not come to deNazify finland, since St. Petersburg is under the range of finnish missiles, while at the same time, Finland is out of the play of the big boys dividing the world. St. Petersburg with 5 million people is more than an unacceptable sacrifice for Putin. So he will not dare.
… because unfortunately i do not think that the US will trade nuclear blows with russia if the urge comes… for finland… modern westerners are cowards, and i have a suspicion, that NATO is dysfunctional too. Every country should rely on itself. And have nuclear weapons.
Look at North Korea. Since they got nuclear, how many American planes are trying to attack them? Exactly…
I said something similar the other day. But the analogy I used was, trying to get storm insurance when the biggest storm of the century has just been forecast on your town.
Don’t wait until the “training exercises” are happening on your border. It may be already too late.
Jesus Christ, he looks drained
Yes, and you live on a street where every other house without fire insurance has already been lit on fire.
One of your crazy neighbors keeps saying they will light your house on fire if you get fire insurance, but meanwhile has never done that to any of your other neighbors who have insurance.
And if he does in fact follow through with his threat, well, good thing you have insurance now.
If they will sell you the fire insurance although your house is already on fire then that is indeed a fantastic deal!
Finland into NATO asap!
This guy is a clown
I strongly believe that the Finnish poll is rigged. We know the bs this is but the younger population, that does not vote at all as it is, wants NATO but have no idea about anything surrounding it.
I don’t know which is better, letting the Russian troops in, or letting the US troops in. We are entitled to fight one of them, but not the other in case things go wrong.
Its more like buying fire insurance only after u see your neighbour’s house catch fire caused by your irresponsible and aggresive common neighbour
He’s absolutely right.
Finland joining NATO the very second Russia is doing naughty business destroying the world’s wheat supply in Ukraine is the most frantic, fearful, expression of lack of preparedness you could possibly express.
It’s just silly.
Finland joining NATO right now is a sign of weakness, fear, political psychotic tendencies, lack of military understanding, and extreme screen/tv addiction.
The time to do it was a decade ago. Or a decade from now.
But Putin is laughing at us, especially people petitioning for NATO. All he sees are mice scrambling.
Finland doesn’t need NATO. It won’t be there to help when the time comes. It’s full of corrupt members all trying to push the problem onto other nations. Combined with the language barriers… Half of the training is getting polish people to understand what “ammo box” is in Romanian. Rekt.
People petitioning for Finland to join NATO have a very poor and counter intuitive understanding of military tactics.
What we join NATO and that’s it? Noo, we need at least a decade of military games with NATO and a complete restructuring of strategies. It simply doesn’t work. Worst time to do it is now.