> What did EU leaders say about Ukraine’s possible membership?
> During Thursday’s talks, EU leaders emphasized once again that a speedy path to block membership was impossible.
> **”There is no such thing as a fast track,”** Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said.
> “I want to focus on what can we do for Volodymyr Zelenskyy tonight, tomorrow, and EU accession of Ukraine is something for the long-term — **if at all**,” he stressed.
Not suprising, eu has bunch of requirements.
Well, Ukraine had a lot of homework to be done even before the Russian invasion.
Well yeah, there are countries that are legitimately putting in reforms and going through the integration process. You can’t just jump the line. N Macedonia is a good example of trying to do all you can to comply with EU requirements.
The EU expanded too fast, and now we’re dealing with the negative consequences of that.
At the moment, Poland and Hungary can block any measure that they don’t like, and protect each other from negative consequences. They have LGBT exlusion zones. They tried to tank the Covid stimulus bill (unless they got special concessions that let them use the funds with zero oversight (i.e. syphon funds for corrupt purposes). They’re completely unaccountable and run contrary to EU values.
The EU should not expand any more, until it’s reformed and has more accountability of it’s members.
Once that day comes, and Ukraine cleans up their homophobia, racism, and corruption, I’ll gladly welcome them.
To meet the criteria Ukraine would need to win the war (not at all guaranteed) and have no territorial disputes. That means giving up Crimea and Donbass and I can’t see them being ready for that.
Rutte is correct about this.
There are requirements to be fulfilled for a country to be a member.
At the moment Ukraine does not meet the Copenhagen criteria.
But they can work towards membership.
As they should. Joining the EU is not a joke.
I feel sorry for the ukrainian people, but they have to realise that EU and NATO can’t help them in this way – we’re doing all we can, helping the refugees, delivering weapons, while walking a thin line that could lead into WW3 every minute
They can’t fast-track apply into EU or NATO, that’s essentially like getting into an accident with your car and trying to get insurance afterwards that will cover for it, there’s no way that can work
This is sensible. EU membership can’t be granted just because a country is in crisis.
This is as it should be. Ukraine has massive problems with minority discrimination and forced cultural assimilation, corruption, irredentism against each of its neighbors and failing justice system.
Ukraine’s future is in the EU but those things need to be fixed first.
I wouldn’t meet in versailles and screw the bad country, if history repeats we now know what happens next.
As it should be.
Ukraine will have a lot of rebuilding to do first.
Makes sense. EU membership is a *big fucking deal*. It’s not just a free trade and defense arrangement, it’s a high level of cultural and economic integration. It has to already be in sync with the EU before you flip the switch, or else it blows up in your face.
Maybe as a British man I don’t have a say, but…
Ukraine is as European as all of us, and what’s happening at moment is terrible but let’s not forget that Ukraine still has a lot of issues regarding corruption, hate crimes, gay rights and so on.
I’m sorry but the country does not deserve the right to be part of that union.
Unpopular opinion, but I think they need to start at the beginning with Ukraine.
Hear me out, the economic and political foundations of the country were decided by ex-Soviets. There was no lustration as in Poland and Czechia- they didn’t separate themselves from Russia. The foundations of the economy are rotten with corruption and inept planning.
There wasn’t reform as much as floundering in the 90s. It took years to establish a currency. The tax codes were a mess– and still are. Around 30% of economic activity is untaxed. Russian was their biggest trading partner even up until 2019.
They need to address these (among many, many other) fundamental issues before they’re ready to be admitted.
I feel so bad for Ukraine, fucking hell. Who knows where would they be now if not for constant Russian attacks and interferences in their internal politics. If I recall they had bigger (or similar) GDP and GDP pc in 1990 than us… I wish they could shake off Russia, rebuild and join as fast as possible. They deserve it.
That makes sense. If the Ukraine joins the EU in the middle of a war, doesn’t that automatically embroil the rest of the EU in that war?
Reasonable. Before they can join they absolutely have to fulfill membership conditions, and I for one support them joining, no doubt, but not on a haphazard “fast track”. Same goes for any other country that wishes to join.
I know that this is bad optically, but EU membership is a very complicated thing. After what happened with countries like Greece and Hungary there is reason to be careful. Of course there is massive support and sympathy for Ukraine at the moment, and I too want them in the Union. If there is a possiblity to fast-track them, we should consider it. But these processes exist for a reason and they cannot be skipped or glossed over. Don’t underestimate to how many problems this could lead.
Not too long ago, Ukraine had a corrupt Russian puppet as President.
While fast-tracking Ukraine’s membership into the EU may seem like a good offering give the pain Ukraine is going through, Ukraine does not meet the basic requirements of membership. For example, corruption is endemic is most aspects of their economy and the rule of law is selectively applied. Fast-tracking the membership is unfair to countries that for years have been trying to meet the requirements and are farther along in the process than Ukraine.
It’s frustrating that this needs to be said. There’s no such thing as fast-track membership.
​
On the other hand, it’s absolutely the EUs fault for being so bad at managing expectations for the last 20 years. The Bulgarian-Romanian duo, the western balkans, Ukraine. They’ve all been promised things we could not give them. And it’s no wonder that their frustration will have consequences
makes sense, there are rules for a reason
so one of the most corrupt states in Europe want a fast tract to eu … sure it is a REAL tragedy that Putin is a destroying their country and putting them in worst shit that they where before .. but membership in the eu will not help that … all the states that want to join need to reach at lest minimum standards … at lest as corruption is concerned … making special rules for Ukraine is not fer to all the other stats that want in …
No longer than one year ago there was huge land scandal in Ukraine with heavy corruption involved and unresolvable
29 comments
> What did EU leaders say about Ukraine’s possible membership?
> During Thursday’s talks, EU leaders emphasized once again that a speedy path to block membership was impossible.
> **”There is no such thing as a fast track,”** Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said.
> “I want to focus on what can we do for Volodymyr Zelenskyy tonight, tomorrow, and EU accession of Ukraine is something for the long-term — **if at all**,” he stressed.
Not suprising, eu has bunch of requirements.
Well, Ukraine had a lot of homework to be done even before the Russian invasion.
Well yeah, there are countries that are legitimately putting in reforms and going through the integration process. You can’t just jump the line. N Macedonia is a good example of trying to do all you can to comply with EU requirements.
The EU expanded too fast, and now we’re dealing with the negative consequences of that.
At the moment, Poland and Hungary can block any measure that they don’t like, and protect each other from negative consequences. They have LGBT exlusion zones. They tried to tank the Covid stimulus bill (unless they got special concessions that let them use the funds with zero oversight (i.e. syphon funds for corrupt purposes). They’re completely unaccountable and run contrary to EU values.
The EU should not expand any more, until it’s reformed and has more accountability of it’s members.
Once that day comes, and Ukraine cleans up their homophobia, racism, and corruption, I’ll gladly welcome them.
To meet the criteria Ukraine would need to win the war (not at all guaranteed) and have no territorial disputes. That means giving up Crimea and Donbass and I can’t see them being ready for that.
Rutte is correct about this.
There are requirements to be fulfilled for a country to be a member.
At the moment Ukraine does not meet the Copenhagen criteria.
But they can work towards membership.
As they should. Joining the EU is not a joke.
I feel sorry for the ukrainian people, but they have to realise that EU and NATO can’t help them in this way – we’re doing all we can, helping the refugees, delivering weapons, while walking a thin line that could lead into WW3 every minute
They can’t fast-track apply into EU or NATO, that’s essentially like getting into an accident with your car and trying to get insurance afterwards that will cover for it, there’s no way that can work
This is sensible. EU membership can’t be granted just because a country is in crisis.
This is as it should be. Ukraine has massive problems with minority discrimination and forced cultural assimilation, corruption, irredentism against each of its neighbors and failing justice system.
Ukraine’s future is in the EU but those things need to be fixed first.
I wouldn’t meet in versailles and screw the bad country, if history repeats we now know what happens next.
As it should be.
Ukraine will have a lot of rebuilding to do first.
Makes sense. EU membership is a *big fucking deal*. It’s not just a free trade and defense arrangement, it’s a high level of cultural and economic integration. It has to already be in sync with the EU before you flip the switch, or else it blows up in your face.
Maybe as a British man I don’t have a say, but…
Ukraine is as European as all of us, and what’s happening at moment is terrible but let’s not forget that Ukraine still has a lot of issues regarding corruption, hate crimes, gay rights and so on.
I’m sorry but the country does not deserve the right to be part of that union.
Unpopular opinion, but I think they need to start at the beginning with Ukraine.
Hear me out, the economic and political foundations of the country were decided by ex-Soviets. There was no lustration as in Poland and Czechia- they didn’t separate themselves from Russia. The foundations of the economy are rotten with corruption and inept planning.
There wasn’t reform as much as floundering in the 90s. It took years to establish a currency. The tax codes were a mess– and still are. Around 30% of economic activity is untaxed. Russian was their biggest trading partner even up until 2019.
They need to address these (among many, many other) fundamental issues before they’re ready to be admitted.
I feel so bad for Ukraine, fucking hell. Who knows where would they be now if not for constant Russian attacks and interferences in their internal politics. If I recall they had bigger (or similar) GDP and GDP pc in 1990 than us… I wish they could shake off Russia, rebuild and join as fast as possible. They deserve it.
That makes sense. If the Ukraine joins the EU in the middle of a war, doesn’t that automatically embroil the rest of the EU in that war?
Reasonable. Before they can join they absolutely have to fulfill membership conditions, and I for one support them joining, no doubt, but not on a haphazard “fast track”. Same goes for any other country that wishes to join.
I know that this is bad optically, but EU membership is a very complicated thing. After what happened with countries like Greece and Hungary there is reason to be careful. Of course there is massive support and sympathy for Ukraine at the moment, and I too want them in the Union. If there is a possiblity to fast-track them, we should consider it. But these processes exist for a reason and they cannot be skipped or glossed over. Don’t underestimate to how many problems this could lead.
Not too long ago, Ukraine had a corrupt Russian puppet as President.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych
While fast-tracking Ukraine’s membership into the EU may seem like a good offering give the pain Ukraine is going through, Ukraine does not meet the basic requirements of membership. For example, corruption is endemic is most aspects of their economy and the rule of law is selectively applied. Fast-tracking the membership is unfair to countries that for years have been trying to meet the requirements and are farther along in the process than Ukraine.
It’s frustrating that this needs to be said. There’s no such thing as fast-track membership.
​
On the other hand, it’s absolutely the EUs fault for being so bad at managing expectations for the last 20 years. The Bulgarian-Romanian duo, the western balkans, Ukraine. They’ve all been promised things we could not give them. And it’s no wonder that their frustration will have consequences
makes sense, there are rules for a reason
so one of the most corrupt states in Europe want a fast tract to eu … sure it is a REAL tragedy that Putin is a destroying their country and putting them in worst shit that they where before .. but membership in the eu will not help that … all the states that want to join need to reach at lest minimum standards … at lest as corruption is concerned … making special rules for Ukraine is not fer to all the other stats that want in …
No longer than one year ago there was huge land scandal in Ukraine with heavy corruption involved and unresolvable
https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/analyses/2020-11-12/how-did-5-million-hectares-disappear-secret-land-privatisation
(Tldr: 5 millions hectares disappeared from registers being given for bribes for wealthy people, it is more area than Switzerland has)
If eu wants to keep some standards, this is good move to not fast track Ukraine.
I mean, was fast tracking even considered?
Ukraine is not EU material yet and a war does not change that.