Putin to demand Ukraine never join NATO during peace talks, Bloomberg reports

7 comments

1. There’s no surprise here. This has been Russia’s stated goal from the start.

   Everyone is saying it’s about imperialism but they are still on message.

   It’s crazy how propaganda will change people’s world view. For many people there’s absolutely nothing you can say to convince them this war is about national security for Russia and NATO expansion.

2. Cut NATO ties and be a neutral state with a limited military… gee wilikers I wonder why. Russia wants to keep Ukraine subservient at all costs. Ukraine would never realistically agree to these terms, considering Russia broke the security treaty they signed promising they wouldn’t invade Ukraine in the future in exchange for their nukes.

   And in the event Russia arbitrarily decides Ukraine has favored the west again, they would invade Ukraine again but with a much smaller and more limited army.

   Hope Putin kicks the bucket soon.

3. I find it amazing the lengths people will go to justify the invasion of another country.

   “It’s to combat nato expansion” NATO isn’t a conquering force. Countries actively apply to join it, and your neighbour wanting to be in an alliance isn’t that alliance invading your borders, that’s absurd. If NATO really cared that much about invading Russia they would have done so already, the war thus far has shown that any large NATO member could have.

   “But what about the US?” Yes. The US, in violation of international law, invaded multiple countries in the Middle East and if it were to me their leaders would be standing trial at the ICC. That still doesn’t justify Russia’s invasion. Whataboutism isn’t an argument or else no country is wrong because Assad used chemical weapons on his own people and China has employed forced abortion policies.

   “It’s for national security” imagine if China invaded Taiwan or Korea or the US invaded Cuba on the premise of national security just because they are friends with opposing states. Short of another holocaust do you really believe that it should be normalized that states can use preemptive invasion against states they don’t like? And if we’re going to talk about national security, what about Finland? Not a historic part of the Soviet Union and a NATO member that shares a border with Russia. Are they not a priority to invade for national security or is that reserved for states that Russia believes they can conquer

4. So can Ukraine agree to this and than just join NATO once Russia fucks off? Kind of like how Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum, but still attacked Ukraine?

5. Right now, everyone is going to maintain their maximalist goals so that they go into negotiations with the highest possible starting point. It would be a little stupid to start negotiating before anybody has sat down. At least not publicly.

6. It’s interesting to see how the Russians are probably overplaying their hand, similar to how they overplayed their hand during the first Trump administration.

   They went into 2016 thinking that Trump would drop all sanctions, pull American troops out of everywhere, and set the stage to rehabilitate Russia.

   Instead, the sanctions mostly stayed in place, American troops tended to stay in places where Russia most wanted them to leave, weapons kept going to Ukraine, and opposition to projects like Nord Stream 2 continued. 

7. He said that before, Ukraine isn’t to join NATO or the EU as he doesn’t want them on his doorstep… So what happened… NATO and the EU start trying to get Ukraine to join..

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