Neurodivergent people on benefits to be helped into work in bid to cut welfare bill
Neurodivergent people on benefits to be helped into work in bid to cut welfare bill
by Creme_Eggs
Neurodivergent people on benefits to be helped into work in bid to cut welfare bill
Neurodivergent people on benefits to be helped into work in bid to cut welfare bill
by Creme_Eggs
43 comments
The only way to help them is to make employers hire them. And good luck with that!
I can tell you that most neurodivergent people want to work. But many of them are subject to prejudice by employers who think that we all have breakdowns/tantrums under pressure.
I can guarantee that most neurodivergent people in work right now probably haven’t told their employer about it, and are putting extra energy into masking to blend in.
The first part will be to make sure that the skills and employment support and training offered meets the needs of the neurodivergent population, and then finding employment which meets the different needs. No point throwing money at employers to take on a more neurodiverse workforce if those out of work aren’t supported to find an industry which suits them and then get appropriate training to work in that industry.
This is more about cutting costs than anything else.
You get them to work by not actively seeking to slash their income after they’ve spent years providing evidence that supports a lifelong disability.
1 in 3 people who are neurodivergent don’t work because their government hates them & they’re unable to fit into a world that does not accommodate them.
The vast majority of them I know can’t predict how they’ll feel on a day, or about a task & end up self isolating & being at risk of agoraphobia or needing someone their with them often.
The waiting lists are massive & it’s all caused by how poorly understood the conditions are alongside how inept the NHS are at diagnosing it.
There is nobody I know with these conditions who is on benefits or generally refusing to work, most want to & go through periods of trying to study or work then having hugelt erratic highs & lows rather than slowly getting better & settling
It’s a myth that the problem is anything but the NHS & Westminister’s fault
I’ll believe it when I see it.
They barely acknowledge Autism as a disability in adults, they’re currently making it harder for those with ADHD to get the help they need, and there’s zero mental health care. I was long-term unemployed and there was NOTHING to help me, no schemes to support people like me into or back into work. Then there’s employers themselves, not only is there general ableism but no one’s ready to even discuss the inherent ableism of the process of applying for and interviewing for jobs.
I’m neurodivergent and relatively well paid. I’m fortunate that my industry and my position works for me, however neurodivergent employees run the risk of employers who do not understand the conditions under this banner. It could lead to either a glass ceiling or alternatively frustration born out of of ignorance to the condition
The problem is that some neurodivergent people are just not going to function well at all in the highly regimented world of work. It’s full of restrictions and unwritten social rules and etiquette and there are few employers who will adapt sufficiently to accommodate. I think the majority of ND people who can work are trying to already to be honest. The proposed reforms are just more of the same that we’ve had from governments for decades now against the most vulnerable people in society and labour should be ashamed.
Jimmy the giant’s take on all this: https://youtu.be/CuCTyKmQWz8?si=OIVyf1DiyfUnshpW
Quite eye opening tbh, when you look at the numbers they’re fighting over pennies instead of tackling the fortunes in unpaid tax etc. By the wealthy… we know who this government actually works for!
We need a new left party, labour has become corrupted and centrist. They provide nothing to no-one in the hopes that they offend neither the left nor right… yet piss them both off equally. Grow some fucking balls and follow what your party stands for!
But there are no jobs FFS!
No companies are hiring. The only ones that are, are the crap companies that are shit employers so have a high turnover.
The problem for the most part is employers. Most neurodivergent people will need accommodations in order to be successful at work, which many employers are unable or unwilling to make.
I am neurodivergent and I am self employed. I work hard and I am successful at what I do. The reason for that is because I make the rules, and those rules work for me, and enable me to thrive.
Every now and again, I venture out into your neurotypical world of work. To me it’s like walking into a lunatic asylum where the people inside it are smearing excrement on the walls, all the while telling you that this is completely normal. Fortunately I don’t have to stay very long. I have no idea how neurotypical people cope with it.
The whole employment application system needs to change then. It’s highly discriminatory and designed to screen out neurodivergent people.
Employers and employees will need training on how to accommodate neurodivergent people.
Colleagues can be the biggest whiny assholes tbh. Slight variations from “normal” lead to constant complaints and prying and embarrassment and bullying.
Revealing a disability during the hiring process tends to lead to being told you “don’t fit” what is being looked for.
It’s all well and good for the government to want to get these people employed but they need to be ready to turn some people into merangue in the process.
One very simple thing they could do would be to mandate that working from home must be permitted unless the employer can demonstrate that the job cannot reasonably be done from home.
There’s a significant number of people who aren’t able to work right now who would be helped into the workplace by that. Folk with phobias or anxiety conditions that prevent them leaving the house. Folk who can’t cope with the loud, busy, bright etc office environment, or folk who need absolute control over their environment or their schedule. Folk who struggle with transport arrangements because of any of a variety of mental health conditions.
Not every job can be done from home. But plenty of them can, and plenty of those are jobs that some folk with autism, ADHD, depression, anxiety, etc could definitely do if they didn’t have the barrier of having to travel into the office and work in that environment.
But it won’t happen, its the new hot button culture war point.
My eldest has been trying to find work for about a year and a half. One place literally said it wasn’t an appropriate place to work for their needs and wished them well. This is a shift the point of blame idea with another “well we tried with a policy” knowing full well it’s not going to work because it already doesn’t for anyone else.
I am autistic and likely ADHD and maybe even PTSD and I barely got onto ESA about 12 years ago and work part time now but can only do part time and there’s times I feel I can’t even do that, if I cut my hours by 3 per week I’d qualify for council tax benefit meaning I am no worse off and I often forget due to my issues so the CT bill goes to debt collector and adds costs on so I pay even more.
If it wasn’t for the fact I have a good employer I wouldn’t of lasted even 6 months, have been there 6 years now.
Before that I would get a job and 2-3 months in I would have a breakdown as burned out and stop turning up, get sanctioned and be unemployed like 1 more year and repeat, that was because at first the increase in income was great and I felt like I was contributing then the workload got worse and worse and I am the type due to my autism I go above and beyond I then snap.
For example worked in a call centre where the target was 1k a month in sales, calls under 45 seconds, and a few other stats, 2 months running I got letters from the boss saying I was in top 3 in the call centre (which was at least 200 staff) and yet my supervisor rather than praise me was “try harder next month” because he got a bonus related to how well each person on his team did, oh and I made 4k that month and many staff struggled to get above £700 in sales, it was a inbound call centre that was customer service but we had to offer top ups as well and all for NMW, and they expected people to take overtime or be fired once I worked 14 days straight 8 hour days.
I was on ESA from 2012-2019 when I got a job and JSA for 5 years before that after I basically had a breakdown after a close relative had their life ended by someone, I did try college/uni a few times and kept dropping out as a combination of people partying all the time, people on substances (even when not in student housing) smashing up their homes and multiple times I was victim of identity fraud meant I just slided further and further into my MH issues.
When I got on ESA I was told I was meant to get regular appointments with the disability team to find me work, I got 1 per year at most went 2 years at one point without one and in the end after I was also waiting years for Social work support the social work referred me to a council job coach who was great and found me a job and spoke to the company in advance about me.
Like many things had I the support further and further back in life I would of been more “normal” meaning I could of worked far earlier in life and full time.
This is the harsh reality for most autistic people:
No work experience, no job. No job no work experience.
Also, more controversially but obviously- employers and interviewers won’t hire someone who comes across as a bit different or odd in an interview regardless of how inclusive they claim to be. Employers and interviewers distrust difference and fear people who come across as odd. That’s the facts of reality and how the world is set up.
(Please note, I’m autistic myself and I’m lucky to have a job)
I had a good job coach (from social work, though no social work support in itself) that helped me fill in forms, my IQ is very high but I have issues like autism, dyslexia, dyspraxia etc that mean I struggle to word myself yet funnily enough when I first left home I did media production and was the best writer on my course but my MH issues have made my mind focus less and make more mistakes.
Anyway I never got interviews until he reworded my CV and then I got quite a few, just kept getting turned down due to lack of experience and/or no references which means to get a job I needed to already have a job to get a reference.
For social work I was too “high functioning” to get it so just rotted away, gained like 6 stone in 4 years, then another 6 during covid, lost 4 of that when I felt a little better then due to MH problems right now regained that 4 stone.
I basically am rotting away in my flat, and WFH a lot.
“helped into work”, forced into meeting work based commitments or they will be sanctioned over a period of time if they do not comply.
I’ve worked at the DWP, they’ve done this before. This isn’t new, this will result in deaths.
Fuck labour.
Helped into work you say? Oh, so that should include large legislative changes that make employment more friendly to neurodivergent people?
Nope. Just the same Ian Duncan Smith brained rhetoric that shits on the disabled for fiscal sabre rattling. Right when the government just lost a legal challenge for *literally doing this exact thing*.
>The High Court has ruled that the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) acted unlawfully by presenting benefit assessment reforms as a way to support disabled people into work, without making clear that cost savings was a “primary rationale” for the proposals.
Cuts, wrapped in a ‘help them into work’ rhetoric are a classic from the DWP and they already have a kill count.
Can’t say they would be my first priority in the on-benefits-but-not-working category, but ok
I work full time and I am autistic, something that I masked as much as I could until I couldn’t. I opened up to my employer, and rather than go in and ask for permanent reasonable adjustments straight away, I asked for temporary adjustments to see if they would help. I only asked for temporary adjustments because of the “inconvenience” to society that you’re made to feel. Because I’d “managed” before (I hadn’t), I was asked if I am sure this isn’t all in my head and my adjustments were declined.
You’re preconditioned to mask because your autism is inconvenient for people, but when the mask drops they don’t believe you because you didn’t disclose it immediately.
Ok fine, but there is no way that employers are going to be flexible enough to help everyone who needs it. I know someone with schizoaffective disorder, avoidant personality disorder, and depression and anxiety. They regularly struggle with paranoia, psychosis when they’re very ill, and they’re currently awaiting an autism assessment, which I am sure will be positive.
They have also been sectioned a couple of times, and they’re on the waiting list for a peer support worker. Oh and they’re under the care of a psychiatrist.
This person is working with someone who specialises in getting people with mental health issues back to work, but there is just no way that anyone is going to be flexible enough to give them the help they need to thrive in the workplace. The odds of this person even being able to buy their own home is zero. They also come from a poor family who do not own property. I worry about their future when they’re physically too old to work.
It doesn’t really feel like the government is on the side of ordinary people.
As always, I can’t wait to see how they go after tax evaders…
The government needs to get the fact that some people can’t work and never will be able to through their thick skulls.
I bet £10 that this will somehow involve private companies or third party contractors getting paid millions while neurospicy people are still hung out to dry.
I’m autistic and adhd and on job seekers and universal credit and I would welcome this. It’s been over a year and the only work that’s hired me in that time is 2 temp jobs. Seems like this is the only thing that would make a employer hire me tbh.
I am speaking here as an ex-trainee educational psychologist with Tourettes….in a profession that should have been the most understanding, with huge national shortages, and under a scholarship scheme that has a 13% success rate with a Masters degree in Year 1 needing a pass before progression to year 2. Only the best of the best get in. I passed year one at uni with good grades.
In year 2 councils didn’t want me because schools didn’t want me, because of unfounded fears about what I could do with a screaming tic that was worse when anxious and in noisy spaces. Would I scare a pupil? Would parents complain about me? All unfounded. But I was under increasing pressure to take anti-psychotics for minor tics and the side effects of the medication made me so useless, I fell behind with the academic work and placement evaluations and failed at the mid point of year 3. I have been so traumatised by the experience I cannot return to a school despite being able to teach specific SEN interventions and have no desire to do so ever. I am on LCWRA/PIP now and looking for something part time for a few days a week in basic minimum wage, I have PTSD that I didn’t have before, on two antidepressants at max dose, waiting over 12 months for therapy through secondary care mental health and my mental ability is shot. People see my last occupation as trainee psychologist and it raises red flags. They don’t want to know.
You might get some people to work some of the time, but you will never get anyone on UC with neurodivergence into full time work that is above NMW or off universal credit. They (me included) will never be net contributors or pay tax. But the point of this is to get rid of the LCWRA category into LCW permanently (like being on JSA for the rest of your life) and make some people make £500 a month in work to live off and cancel their JSA altogether. When they are in social housing, they will pay their housing costs for them but its still a life of food banks, food pantries, warm spaces, fuel poverty and walking everywhere because public transport is a luxury while in work. So a life of absolute poverty without the government having to pay the living costs
As somebody who is disabled I freely admit that I wouldn’t hire me.
I would be completely unreliable. Apart from the days off I would due to GP / hospital appointments and procedures, I can’t sit / stand for long periods of time, I can’t look at a computee screen for long periods of time, I struggle to remember things that I was told on a few minutes before, I can’t use any heavy equipment or machinery due to the medication that I’m on.
So yeah, there is a lot of the time that due to the condition the person has it would be a nightmare for an employer.
Just dealing a disability itself can be utterly exhausted, to be forced into a job that neither you or the employee wants is ridiculous and will only the disabled person.
They claim they’re listening to disabled and neurodivergent people, but they aren’t. They’ve proven that by saying ‘lol we’re cutting your benefits to save money.’ They know it’s a human rights issue to do so, so they’re now trying the ‘It’s to HELP you.’ route. Anyone can see through it, plain as day. It’s an easy group to pick on.
I’ve tried not to bring my own story into these debates. But I’m autistic, I spent years asking doctors what was wrong with me, why I didn’t fit in, why I couldn’t answer phones or talk on the phone, why I was scared to go outside, why everything was too much and too noisy and too bright. Why just going to the store was too much for me. Why I failed every job I had. Hell, why sometimes I can’t even shower because it’s too much for me on a sensory level.
I would LOVE a job that worked for me. But what I need just is not there. And if it is, a neurotypical person will ALWAYS pip me to the post because it’s much much less hassle for an employer and doesn’t mean a legal and red tape minefield for them. I had my CV professionally looked over and paid for that, I also had it looked over by the job centre in multiple one to one appointments, it’s flawless, they said so. But my issues make me HORRENDOUS in interviews. I tell/warn people I have issues because I feel I need to because I just cannot hide them. I have been picked on in every job I’ve had, and been miserable. I’m now at a point where I am on LCRWA (for autism/BPD/CPTSD and bipolar disorder) and I am TERRIFIED that I’ll be removed, unable to find a job that works for me and sanctioned. I was in tears about it last night, wondering what on Earth I’ll do when they cut it and I cannot afford to live. Right now I can only just afford £100 a month for groceries, the rest goes on rent and utilities. If LCWRA is cut? That will go down to £30 a month. £100 is shockingly hard to live on for a month, unless I eat nothing but oats, pasta and cheap junk. I cannot get PIP because it’s SO hard to get. I can live alone with help so I’m ‘fine’ and don’t qualify. How could ANYONE think we want to live like this?? I don’t. It feels hopeless. But if it’s taken away, then what? I end up homeless because I can’t pay my rent and bills.
I have a set of skills I am very good at. Organising, typing, data entry, painting etc. Small details are my jam. Put me in a room and say ‘all this paper work/products need organising’, leave me alone and I am in my element. But no one would hire me for this. Not when you can hire someone neurotypical who could do that AND more. It’s heartbreaking, and even now I hunt for jobs, and can never find one that I could reasonably do. I’m not extroverted, I’m hellishly shy, awkward and terrified of most things. Who is going to hire me? The gov already make us feel like we don’t deserve to exist, but employers don’t help.
I WANT to work. I want to SO badly. I want my own home, I want the safety, the normalcy. I want a job that I can DO. Not one that I get fired from because I buckle. But they just don’t seem to exist. I can’t be self employed because I have no skills to offer and working from home isn’t a thing now. Seriously, if there was a job where I could go and just do data entry that wasn’t a scam? Sign me the fuck up and I’ll do SO much typing. If someone told me ‘You’re typing up/entering this. You break at this time. It’s 30 mins. You go home at this time.’ I would be happy as a clam.
Firms will always hire neurotypical people over neurodivergent. There is less ‘hassle’, easier to train, quicker to train, they need very few work adjustments, and employers can squeeze much more out of them before pressure gets to them. No employer wants to ‘waste’ time and effort and money on someone who might not be able to handle the job. No employer wants to risk the red tape and legal minefield that is hiring neurodivergent people. And IF they do, they assume that they’ll be hiring someone like the character from The Good Doctor or another stereotype. When they don’t get that, they don’t want to deal with us.
The gov could lead by example and offer jobs catered to us, even a small amount. But they won’t. Too much faff. This whole thing could work, IF employers saw benefit to hiring us. But they don’t.
TL:DR; Unless employers are incentivised/paid to hire us, they will always hire nuerotypicals over us because we’re not ‘worth’ the investment.
The government needs to completely rewrite the existing tax code. Implement a wealth tax, land value tax along with high property, corporation, capital gains and inheritance taxes to adequately fund public services and create a more equitable society. At the very least they should crack down on tax evasion rather than punishing people who are struggling
I wonder if they will get support to become self-employed? I suspect they would be able to make better use of their skills and perspectives than an employer.
I am supprised no one talks about Remploy in these articles. They employed up to 9000 at one point and the people who worked there loved their jobs.
Surely, an updated version should be part of the solution.
https://socialhistory.org.uk/shs_exchange/remploy-75-years-of-remploy-factories/#:~:text=The%20last%20Remploy%20Factory%20was,MAXIMUS%20and%20Remploy%20employees%20themselves.
I’m sorry, but unless the Government are willing to scrap the DWP and Job Centre and replace them with a new department and new branding, then the messaging here isn’t going to be received as “help” but “hounded”.
My experience with discovering i am neurodivergent as an adult, then disclosing it to my employer was unfortunately bad.
I think they had no idea what to do about it and part of the problem describing ADHD symptoms is it makes you sound lazy.
They pushed me out and now I’m unemployed. I seriously doubt I’ll have a better time disclosing this again and in a new role I will not mention it.
Edit: also whoever invented open offices should be in an open office jail or something. I’d of had far less problems just with less overwhelming office noise!
The government needs to offer an incentives for business idk, maybe paying 50% of their salary or providing a tax break.
The person gets an opportunity to build a career/ experience.
The business gets an employee for a cheaper rate.
The government overall saves money, if whatever they offer is cheaper than benefits.
On top of all the other comments, a workplace may just need to be adaptable in certain ways to fit highly individualised mental medical needs and you can’t keep changing how your business works for singular employees every time somebody comes and goes.
This however doesn’t mean there aren’t a lot of things that can be done to make spaces more accessible in the physical and psychological sense.
There’s a lot of measures you can take to make improvements, which would encourage people to then seek out work.
Cutting benefits does none of that. It does nothing except make people poor and force them into unsustainable circumstances with no means to escape and still survive.
Worked with a severely handicapped dude (mentally) he’d walk around swinging his arms non stop and wandering around and it took about a week for people to notice and decide he wasn’t worth dealing with, sacked him on the day
Companies don’t really put anything in place to accommodate these individuals, they’re seen as a net loss and ultimately discriminated against
This will only serve to put people in a more difficult spot
There’s a version of this that could work, but the major problem with neuro issues is burnout.
These people can not do a full 40-hour week , every week, some weeks fine, other they can’t get out of bed, constancy is the major factor in most mental and neurological
Good days and bad, most would love some extra money from working, if it wasn’t for all the stress.
First, looking for a job, then applying, then disability management conversation, a universal credit phone call, and then an email, then there’s an overpayment, or no hours .they have been sanctioned waiting on appeal .
Paying disabled money might cost a bit, but that money doesnt dissappear, it goes back into the economy, all the food they buy, all the tax or lifts, their nexflix subscription, even when they buy booze or cigarette that goes straight back to the government the tax is crazy
And what happens if they dont have the money, the real disabled people can’t work , just magicall do, they die or starve or freeze or become homeless
Their money is no longer being spent into the economy, and their lives are ruined, thats why we have disability payments.
I would rather have a thousand scanners than one disabled person suffering the inhumanity of such a life
The scammed can be caught made to pay it back
What’s the point of them working if you’re just gonna take close to 50% of their income
Using one word to cap them all together. Considering a small amount can’t work or function safely and the others could work, but cause more work for their colleges. No win situation.
For a lot of neurodivergent people the right accommodations and support will do wonders.
But any system that offers help needs to be properly educated to recognise that this is not the case for all of us. I have autism and ADHD. I can work, for 6 months. Working however comes at the expense of me being unable to manage other basic self care tasks. As these fall apart my fatigue increases and by 6 months I will completely burnt out and will have a mental health breakdown.
Also autism has a lot of common comorbidities so a lot of us have additional physical health issues that also need accommodating. A lot of time off for appointments and rest and sickness. I am still in the process of getting 15 years of unsupported poor health to be understood and supported I’m completely falling apart at the seams from chronic pain and gastrointestinal issues and bladder issues and dysautomnia issues etc etc. So even if they can remove all the typically understood barriers for work for neurodivergent people like difficulties with interviews I think they’ll be disappointed to find many of us still won’t be able to manage it.
The reality is that if “help” is the usual approach of forcing work requirements and using sanctions if people don’t meet them. I will starve before I become capable of work. This is despite the fact that I have a degree and the fact that most people from the outside would assume me to be “high functioning”/low support. The list of accommodations I’d need to stay in work is so long it would not be considered reasonable. I’ve been doing occupational therapy recently to try work out better ways to support myself in my daily living and the list of things she’d like implemented (after fully assessing me) is 5 pages long. I’m going to have to adapt and pace every daily task and introduce all sorts of resources just to improve my basic self care and emotional regulation strategies. I would cost any company more than I’d make them.
I was young and unemployed during the John Major years and became enrolled in the “community program”. They used us as manual labour for the elderly. We cleaned yards, cut down trees, painted, wallpapered and did general unskilled stuff. My favourite memory from those times is being asked “What was I in for?”, because they thought we were prisoners. Good times. Was still unemployed when the program ended.
Anyone got a non pay walled version of this? This affects me. And I’m terrified. And I can’t even access the article.
What work? Where are all these jobs employers are desperate to fill?
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